47 réponses à ce sujet

[GordonNoob2010]

So she murders a whole bunch of unarmed humans who were clearly not the people responsible for her sister's kidnapping.
Is there any way to kill her after she is informed of her error?

[Sarah1281]

You can kill her when she's at the sight of the massacre in the same conversatoin you tell her she was wrong. I'm not sure if that counts as a 'good' resolution, though.

[GordonNoob2010]

Yes, but the killing there takes place BEFORE she is informed of her errors. She merely assumes she is being murdered like her family by evil humans.

[AnniLau]

Still, not seeing why killing her at all is a 'good resolution.'

[Sarah1281]

Well, if you absolutely must kill her then take her with you to the Architect, side against him, and don't try to persuade her not to attack you.

[GordonNoob2010]

AnniLau wrote...

Still, not seeing why killing her at all is a 'good resolution.'

My problem is that either

she is executed without knowing why
or
she is informed of the reason and then she gets away with mass murder.

[Radahldo]

Why do you feel compelled to explain why you are killing her?

It doens't effect her conscience; learning that she was manipulated by the Darkspawn just makes her angry, and then she immediately goes into 'must find my sister!' mode.

But, if you have Justice with you, he'll say something about executing her for her crimes, so theres atleast that.

Modifié par Radahldo, 06 mai 2010 - 05:10 .

[Xetirox]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Well, if you absolutely must kill her then take her with you to the Architect, side against him, and don't try to persuade her not to attack you.

Won't work, she'll take an approval hit, but will never attack you.

[GordonNoob2010]

Radahldo wrote...

Why do you feel compelled to explain why you are killing her?

It doens't effect her conscience; learning that she was manipulated by the Darkspawn just makes her angry, and then she immediately goes into 'must find my sister!' mode.

But, if you have Justice with you, he'll say something about executing her for her crimes, so theres atleast that.

As Warden-Commander of the region, it is my duty to uphold her constitutional right to know the nature of her charges against her.

[Sarah1281]

GordonNoob2010 wrote...

Radahldo wrote...

Why do you feel compelled to explain why you are killing her?

It doens't effect her conscience; learning that she was manipulated by the Darkspawn just makes her angry, and then she immediately goes into 'must find my sister!' mode.

But, if you have Justice with you, he'll say something about executing her for her crimes, so theres atleast that.

As Warden-Commander of the region, it is my duty to uphold her constitutional right to know the nature of her charges against her.

Does Ferelden even have a constitution? Not to mention that as a Dalish she really isn't a citizen of Ferelden...

[asaiasai]

To a degree the "Velena" situation is typical of the Wardens. She is a reformed sinner who by surviving the joining gets the opportunity to become a saint. Kill her if you must, but as the character selection is limited you are loosing out on several opportunities. First opportunity is to get, with a respec tome, a solid mage. Second you get an opportunity to reform her and as powerful as she is she now works for you at least for the time being. She is not going to really believe you even if you show her the Elven trinket, she wil need to hear it from her sister in the mines, so telling her is kind of pointless anyway, so you are really left with your options or mine. At first glance this might seem silly or poor story telling but it does work on a deeper level.



Asai

[KnightofPhoenix]

GordonNoob2010 wrote...
As Warden-Commander of the region, it is my duty to uphold her constitutional right to know the nature of her charges against her.

The charges are pretty obvious. She doesn't deny doing all the killing, she admitted it the first time she saw you.
 

[GordonNoob2010]

asaiasai wrote...

To a degree the "Velena" situation is typical of the Wardens. She is a reformed sinner who by surviving the joining gets the opportunity to become a saint. Kill her if you must, but as the character selection is limited you are loosing out on several opportunities. First opportunity is to get, with a respec tome, a solid mage. Second you get an opportunity to reform her and as powerful as she is she now works for you at least for the time being. She is not going to really believe you even if you show her the Elven trinket, she wil need to hear it from her sister in the mines, so telling her is kind of pointless anyway, so you are really left with your options or mine. At first glance this might seem silly or poor story telling but it does work on a deeper level.

Asai

You make an interesting arguement but I believe that is only in the case where someone invokes the right of conscription. Velanna is merely using the wardens as a means to her vendetta. Even Daveth, the thief who dies in the first joining, is perfectly willing to sacrifice himself to fight the blight. Induction into the Order is considered an honor and the only exception was in the case of Logain, where it was done because there were no other wardens in all of Ferelden.

[GordonNoob2010]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

GordonNoob2010 wrote...
As Warden-Commander of the region, it is my duty to uphold her constitutional right to know the nature of her charges against her.

The charges are pretty obvious. She doesn't deny doing all the killing, she admitted it the first time she saw you.
 

My problem is that she assumes that the merchants she slaughtered were responsible for her sister's disappearance. She makes the case for self defense against kidnapping murderers.

The charge is mass murder of innocents, not self defense.

[GordonNoob2010]

Are there any mods that will allow me to kill Velanna after explaining to her that she committed mass murder against people who had nothing to do with her sister's disappearance?

[Sarah1281]

No, she really doesn't. She knows that a lot of the people she's killing are innocent; she's trying to intimidate humanity in general into giving back her sister. If you'll notice, she attacks you too even though she knows you aren't even remotely involved.

[GordonNoob2010]

Sarah1281 wrote...

No, she really doesn't. She knows that a lot of the people she's killing are innocent; she's trying to intimidate humanity in general into giving back her sister. If you'll notice, she attacks you too even though she knows you aren't even remotely involved.

I think I love you.

This totally means I can kill her within the bounds of the Ameranthine constitution.

[Radahldo]

I'm still not sure if this constitution exists..

[GordonNoob2010]

Radahldo wrote...

I'm still not sure if this constitution exists..

In my playthrough, after King Alistair awarded the Arling of Amerantine to Warden-Commander Cousland, he immediately wrote a constitution with a scroll of rights.

[Willowhugger]

That's totally not what happened. Velanna is under the impression humanity is attempting to conquer the Daelish territories of her former Resistance cell against the human incursions. The sheer staggering horror of the realization that she not only was a murderer but NO ONE EVEN KNEW SHE EXISTED is bad. I love bringing Velanna to the merchant in Amaranthine's capital. She just stares horribly mute about the whole thing.

[asaiasai]

I always have a tendancy to lean towards allowing an individual an opportunity for redemption. It kind of follows my philosophy about life. Life is not about avoiding mistakes, only avoiding thier repitition.

Stalin was an evil SOB, but was usefull in defeating the greater evil in Hitler. I am sure both Roosevelt and Churchill felt a bit slimy after meeting with Stalin, but the task set before them both would have been alot more difficult with out Stalin.

That is the beautyful thing about DAO, choices and consequences.

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 06 mai 2010 - 05:59 .

[GordonNoob2010]

asaiasai wrote...

I always have a tendancy to lean towards allowing an individual an opportunity for redemption. It kind of follows my philosophy about life. Life is not about avoiding mistakes, only avoiding thier repitition.

Stalin was an evil SOB, but was usefull in defeating the greater evil in Hitler. I am sure both Roosevelt and Churchill felt a bit slimy after meeting with Stalin, but the task set before them both would have been alot more difficult with out Stalin.

That is the beautyful thing about DAO, choices.

Asai

Yes. That is exactly why I kept her alive originally. The problem was that she is irredeemable.

Both Logain and Nathaniel want redemption for trying to kill Alliance-Spectre Cousland. They seek to undo the damage and help in any way possible. Velanna is a different breed. She IS the greater evil.

[Willowhugger]

Yes. That is exactly why I kept her alive originally. The problem was that she is irredeemable.

Both Logain and Nathaniel want redemption for trying to kill Alliance-Spectre Cousland. They seek to undo the damage and help in any way possible. Velanna is a different breed. She IS the greater evil.

My take is that she's in what is effectively heavy denial.  Mostly because of the facts you discover during the meeting with her family.  She's genuinely remorseful, it's just she sees no way to atone.

[Sarah1281]

Alliance-Spectre Cousland?

[GordonNoob2010]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Alliance-Spectre Cousland?

Sorry. Wrong game. I meant Warden-Commander Shepard.




EDIT:

BTW. Thanks for all the help in sorting out my mess.

Modifié par GordonNoob2010, 06 mai 2010 - 06:16 .