137 réponses à ce sujet

[Valcutio]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

I still don't get why you can't just load a save right before the IFF.

This is what I was about to say, particular when I read the OPs comment about having to start from the very beginning again.

Unless the OP is one of those dimwitted people that doesn't save much in an rpg based game then you must surely have a save pre-IFF that isn't too far back.

In virtually all my playthroughs I tend to make a save just after doing the collector mission that I keep just so I can tinker with things.

And this is the kind of stupid post that I don't appreciate. To make a comparison.

First of all, if you read my original post instead of rushing to pipe in, you would have seen that I said I only used 5 save slots and quick save. Didn't see the purpose of using more. In hindsight, yes - it would have been really nice, but hardly dimwitted. Ironic you should use that term.

What makes me laugh is how the OP talks about players being rewarded for being lazy. Have to wonder if he can see the hypocrisy in such a line.

Post-Horizon, TIM states that everyone needs to be focussed. Post-Collector Ship, Miranda states that everyone needs to be focussed and team built.

How many more times does that need drilling into peoples head before they get the message?

Gaining the loyalty of your crew isn't being lazy, it is a task that will help.

Did you even read my post? Are you a small child? I won't want to insult you if you're a kid. Nobody is debating that you should do the loyalty quests - just the timing.

One thing to point out, after the crew gets taken. If you haven't done everything Miranda and Jacob talk about what things still need fixing. It is mentioned that by delaying you could be risking the lives of the crew. Shepard gets the chance to state going after the crew or mission comes first. Miranda does also comment on the fact that the crew knew this could be a one way trip and that their lives could be in jeopardy. It's actually also mentioned when you do Grunt's recruitment mission in one of the dialogues how the crew is expendable.

Yeah. Every mission is vital. Every loyalty quest is important. Everybody wants everything done right away. One mission in the entire game is actually time based and will result in screwing you over if not completed right away. One.

Now feel free to read the rest of the thread and maybe in the future you'll hesitate before jumping into a thread you don't understand.

[GothamLord]

Holy Crap 4 pages of this really? OP Did you freak out like this when you played ME1 and found out that Ashley could shot Wrex vs. talking to him to calm him down??? or having to choose between Kaidan or Ashley? Its a game about making choices, and choices that may have universe spanning effects. Its not a stupid game mechanic. You choose an outcome by your play choices that you obviously didnt like. Does it suck that you didnt have a save right before the IFF? Sure. Dont go screaming at BioWare though that they should hold your hand and tell you the outcome of each choice you make before you pick it.



The whole purpose of multiple playthroughs is trying different things to see the various outcomes!

[Valcutio]

GothamLord wrote...

Holy Crap 4 pages of this really? OP Did you freak out like this when you played ME1 and found out that Ashley could shot Wrex vs. talking to him to calm him down??? or having to choose between Kaidan or Ashley? Its a game about making choices, and choices that may have universe spanning effects. Its not a stupid game mechanic. You choose an outcome by your play choices that you obviously didnt like. Does it suck that you didnt have a save right before the IFF? Sure. Dont go screaming at BioWare though that they should hold your hand and tell you the outcome of each choice you make before you pick it.

The whole purpose of multiple playthroughs is trying different things to see the various outcomes!

I didn't make a choice. I was given a time limit that I was unaware of. There is a distinct difference. Also, I'm neither freaking out nor screaming at Bioware.

[GothamLord]

Valcutio wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

Holy Crap 4 pages of this really? OP Did you freak out like this when you played ME1 and found out that Ashley could shot Wrex vs. talking to him to calm him down??? or having to choose between Kaidan or Ashley? Its a game about making choices, and choices that may have universe spanning effects. Its not a stupid game mechanic. You choose an outcome by your play choices that you obviously didnt like. Does it suck that you didnt have a save right before the IFF? Sure. Dont go screaming at BioWare though that they should hold your hand and tell you the outcome of each choice you make before you pick it.

The whole purpose of multiple playthroughs is trying different things to see the various outcomes!

I didn't make a choice. I was given a time limit that I was unaware of. There is a distinct difference. Also, I'm neither freaking out nor screaming at Bioware.

You did make a choice.   After the attack you are given the option to go straight after the captured crew or continue to build your team.  The IFF is painfully obvious as a plot advancement mission. Since it wasnt your first playthrough this should have been even more clear.  Talking to the crew they also clearly state that its likely the captured crew will be killed if you dont hurry.   

You have a right to be upset at the outcome, but its hardly a ...

 Great game but talk about a stupid, supid, stupid game mechanic. 

Hence my saying of freaking out and ...

 These are details that shouldn't need to be guessed at - YOU SHOULD TELL US

...screaming

They wasnt anything to be guessed at. You just didnt catch the underlining hints that were presented in game.   It happens.

[Valcutio]

You have a right to be upset at the outcome, but its hardly a ...

 Great game but talk about a stupid, supid, stupid game mechanic. 

Might wanna reword that. It's hardly a great game?

Hence my saying of freaking out and ...

 These are details that shouldn't need to be guessed at - YOU SHOULD TELL US

...screaming

No exclamation marks. Hence, not screaming. Perhaps I should have just used the bold text feature but I figured I should capitalize the main points of my posts for those that enjoy skimming posts.

They wasnt anything to be guessed at. You just didnt catch the underlining hints that were presented in game.   It happens.

I didn't catch the hints that the crew might die? Those are hints? Because I thought it said it pretty clearly. You people calling them "hints" must feel like real detectives, huh? Every other mission tells you that if you don't hurry, somebody will get away. Or somebody will die. Or a ship will crash. Or yadda, yadda.

What you don't seem to understand is that there are no mechanics in the game that force you to go immedietly anywhere or suffer consequences. Just 1 mission. In 2 games. If you don't get that then... *shrugs*

Modifié par Valcutio, 06 mai 2010 - 10:49 .

[onelifecrisis]

I see a lot of people saying ME2 is better for the urgency/haste. What urgency is there? You have all the time in the world to do loyalty missions before you get the IFF. Personally I think the game would have been better if the player had been forced into the IFF mission at a set time, just like they are forced into every other main quest mission at a set time. That way there really would be a sense of urgency. As it is you can just do loyalty missions until there are no more to do, then get the IFF, then do Legion's loyalty mission, and off you go. Everyone is loyal. All crew saved. That's what happened on my first playthrough and I was slightly annoyed that getting the perfect ending was so easy and I was never rushed.

[Dean_the_Young]

The bigger annoyance isn't so much that the game pushes you to rush after a point (a good mechanic for judging your priorities), but rather that you can't even get all the characters until you start that clock. It's almost impossible to take Legion anywhere, for example, because after that first playthrough players will always do all the other missions (recruitment and loyalty) before the Reaper IFF, and consequently before Legion, meaning that Legion isn't going to be anywhere close to as used or talkative. It also makes it a challenge to get all of Legion's dialogue conversations, because most people will have done too many of the missions to progress it.



If they allowed you to get all your characters in any order before the IFF mission, I think it would have been great. As it is, no thanks.

[GothamLord]

Valcutio wrote...



What you don't seem to understand is that there are no mechanics in the game that force you to go immedietly anywhere or suffer consequences. Just 1 mission. In 2 games. If you don't get that then... *shrugs*

Just like the loyalty missions for Thane and Samara are different in the fact there is no combat to them. Or Kasumi's is just you and her. Its something different. Just because there arent a dozen of those type of mechanics through both games doesnt make it any less important or stupid for its placement. Its a game/story option you have voiced you dont like. Congratulations. Blah Blah Blah and all that.

[GothamLord]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The bigger annoyance isn't so much that the game pushes you to rush after a point (a good mechanic for judging your priorities), but rather that you can't even get all the characters until you start that clock. It's almost impossible to take Legion anywhere, for example, because after that first playthrough players will always do all the other missions (recruitment and loyalty) before the Reaper IFF, and consequently before Legion, meaning that Legion isn't going to be anywhere close to as used or talkative. It also makes it a challenge to get all of Legion's dialogue conversations, because most people will have done too many of the missions to progress it.

If they allowed you to get all your characters in any order before the IFF mission, I think it would have been great. As it is, no thanks.

Now see  this annoyance I agree with as valid.  I would have liked less of the rush on the clock after getting Legion for saving the crew.  As it is though if I wanted to hear all of Legion's conversation options for other things I just made a playthrough where I knew the crew was going to die ala Reaper Smoothie Machine. Then I did the minimum I had to do storywise to get the mission to pick up Legion.  Then I went to town.  

[Jonathan Shepard]

In order to do everything before the endgame, and keep everyone alive, you just have to do everything before you go to the derelict reaper. It's quite simple. Legion's the trigger for the crew abduction.

[Dean_the_Young]

Yes, we understand that perfectly. The issue is that using Legion, a party member, as the trigger for the crew abduction is that it greatly detracts from Legion's playability and characterization.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yes lets take out the only risk factor in the game



Seriously

[Man785]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I can only wonder what Saren was doing all that time while he was waiting for us. I bet he had a kick-ass FarmVille spread.

This made me laugh so hard.

[AmstradHero]

One more quick question: After the attack takes place and everyone is kidnapped - don't you immediately have a dialogue occur in which you are presented with the choice to immediately pursue the collectors and rescue your crew or continue to prepare?

Of course, it's still the only case in which timeliness is enforced, but it seems that BioWare did make an effort to impress upon the player that there might be something at stake above and beyond the normal circumstances.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 06 mai 2010 - 12:46 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

@AmstradHero yes you do have that option



Also I might add that if you want to maximize Legions playtime while still saving the crew, the IFF will not be installed until you have done Zaeed's and Kasumi's loyalty missions. So if you have those characters you can do (make sure Legions first however)



Heretic Base

Zoyra

Kasumi's Loyalty mission





This is an extreme non-complaint and I can't believe it exists

[Valcutio]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Yes lets take out the only risk factor in the game

Seriously

What risk? There was no risk and no option. No choice to be made. They snuck a time limit in on a mission. "Oooo.. risky."

As far as I'm concerned, they could make every mission timed, with bombs inside every team member that will detonate if you dont do their loyalty missions quick enough and if you don't do the suicide mission within 10 minutes of starting the game, the galaxy blows up. As long as I know the freaking score.

But no. We're told that the crew is in danger. We can keep building up the team or we can go do the last mission now. Gee, I guess if I do a few more missions then those crew members will die. There's no way that the game would keep those crew members alive unless I go right this second. I guess I'll have to wait to do the rest of my sidequests AFTER I beat the game because that's just intuitive. It all makes sense. /sarcasm

[Onyx Jaguar]

Both Miranda and Jacob warn you. Period.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Again seriously you can everything before you do the Reaper IFF. The Reaper IFF triggers the endgame.

[Fatex3]

Valcutio wrote...

Major Spoilers. Duh.

So, Kelly and the rest of the crew got melted because I didn't race to the suicide mission after the Joker mission. Talk about pissed off.

Gamers should be rewarded for doing everything a game has to offer before finishing it - not punished. It would have been SO much easier to skip all the optional side quests and just finish the game but I invested the time to build up my team and obtain everything I could on Insanity before going for the last mission.

Instead of being rewarded, I lose my crew. What kind of stupid logic is this? I loved this game but this situation really killed a lot of the experience for me. My Team was perfectly fine but a lot of good that does me when my engineers get melted and screw over my save for mass effect 3.

The first time I played the game, I didn't do everything and the crew was fine (all my team survived and everything) - but for my second playthrough I wanted it to be a perfect Insanity game to port to Mass Effect 3. I did everything and because I didn't do it in a special order or whatever - I got screwed over.

Now I have to restart my game and make the same decisions I made the last time because I only used 5 save spots not including quick save. I just don't understand the thinking behind this mechanic at all. I guess you could give some lame excuse like, "You have to make the choice to either build up or go with what you have and that means consequences" - but the game mechanics should have been EXPLAINED in that case. Especially considering there's room to do 1 or 2 other missions before you have to go. These are details that shouldn't need to be guessed at - YOU SHOULD TELL US.

Anyways. Great game but talk about a stupid, supid, stupid game mechanic. 

- V

The same exact thing happend to me. I made sure only to do one mission after the IFF because I was under the impression that you had a 1 mission window to save everyone. This was on my insanity play through, so I was so pissed off I deleted my character.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Also here is my question, do you have Zaeed?

[AntiChri5]

I felt they were beating me over the head with the warnings OP, and what do you want a clock counting down?

[AmstradHero]

While I still disagree that it is a signicant issue, the OP does raise an interesting (and somewhat valid) point.  As such, you convinced me to write a blog post discussing this very issue with consideration to its general use within RPGs.

Arguably, the OP meta-gamed and failed, because he (incorrectly) assumed that he would have an infinite amount of "time" to save his crew.  This was a choice not specifically presented in exactly the same fashion as other choices within the game.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 06 mai 2010 - 02:10 .

[brad2240]

The whole purpose of multiple playthroughs is trying different things to see the various outcomes!

Absolutely agree with this. The game is designed to be played through multiple times and this situation is just one of the mechanics to encourage that.

Also agree with the majority here, it is a choice the player has to make and the consequences are laid out for you.
 
OP, you're angry that you've been blindsided by a game mechanic but careful save files (why would you not keep a save file before each major plot event?) and paying attention to the dialogue should have prepared you for such a thing. Not to mention your entire previous playthrough. Or the fact that you're a member of this forum, where such info is so readily available that you all but trip over it when looking through various posts.

This is not a punishment as you see it to be. This is an outcome based on a choice you, as the player, makes. Just like the rest of the game. And if you don't like that outcome, you replaly to get a different one. That's what the whole game is about.

[Jackal904]

As long as you do everything before the reaper IFF mission you'll be fine. But once you get the reaper IFF you can only do one mission after that before going to the collector base if you want to save your whole crew.

[Mangalores]

I find this the opposite. In these games the "hold points" are far too obvious so you simply do all the stuff you want before continueing a story progression mission. I always felt like cheating for not reacting to Virmire and Ilos immediately. The narration makes it clear how important those two finds might be but I go exploring planets instead? Yes, for money and skills.



Having a real clock against you might have been more interesting here and there. As such I found this urgency a nice change though I hated the Cruiser mission because I was just on Ilium and wanted to recruit Thane and Samarra but was forced to do that mission half a galaxy away and return then. Would have made more sense to be capable to wrap up things on one planet and then hurry there (that I got shot up the first couple of times didn't help).