63 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

When I first saw Mass Effect 1, I was blown away by it. There were a few hitches in the graphics and the texture pop-in was distracting, but by and large I thought it was phenomenal. That game was the first console game I ever purchased, and the only reason I purchased an XBox 360.

Since then, I have seen and played a lot of other games, and now the graphics aren't quite as spectacular as they once seemed, mainly due to the motion capture. The motion capture in Uncharted 2: Among Thieves is fantastic and very organic, and contributes greatly to the realism and cinematic feel of the game. Mass Effect 2 seems to have taken a step backward in this area, and I hope that this is on the developer's radar to improve for Mass Effect 3.

[ImperialOperative]

It isn't motion capture, it's hand-animated.

[Siansonea]

Seriously? No wonder it looks so stilted. There's no substitute for motion capture, guys.

[Tazzmission]

Siansonea II wrote...

Seriously? No wonder it looks so stilted. There's no substitute for motion capture, guys.

if you think you can do better than do it otherwise chill

[bas273]

Graphics don't really matter imo. This game looks great but I think the story and companions are much more important.

[Tazzmission]

bas273 wrote...

Graphics don't really matter imo. This game looks great but I think the story and companions are much more important.

agreed. i will admit though me's graphics for enviorments were top notch in this sequal

[Ski Mask Wei]

In the future they probably need to start using the process Avatar uses for their digital actors. I know I've played game too much but now I notice recycled walk and other routines while playing. It's kind of distracting.

[Onyx Jaguar]

After seeing how Uncharted was made I wholeheartedly believe that motion capture is where games with a cinematic flair need to go. There is something cold and disconnected with how ME is presented in comparison.

[cachx]

While I think the games look very good. Sometimes I cringe at Bioware cutting corners in the animation department.



Sharing animation rigs between males and females is the one that bothers me the most.

[Dick Delaware]

bas273 wrote...

Graphics don't really matter imo. This game looks great but I think the story and companions are much more important.

True, but that's not the issue here. Good animation can add a lot to a game and make you respond to a character's facial gestures much more strongly. Anyways, I thought the animations were significantly better in the second game than they were in the first. Much more lifelike. I haven't played Uncharted, however, so I can't say how ME compares to that game.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Dick Delaware wrote...

bas273 wrote...

Graphics don't really matter imo. This game looks great but I think the story and companions are much more important.

True, but that's not the issue here. Good animation can add a lot to a game and make you respond to a character's facial gestures much more strongly. Anyways, I thought the animations were significantly better in the second game than they were in the first. Much more lifelike. I haven't played Uncharted, however, so I can't say how ME compares to that game.

Basically when they made Uncharted 2 (I'm not 100% positive on the first one), they mocapped all of the actors as well as record the dialogue.  

So they would act out the scenes, the designers would render the animations in engine and tweak it and adjust the dialogue accordingly. 

The same thing was done in Heavenly Sword. 

[Atmosfear3]

Imagine how much better ME could have been if it used mo-cap like MGS4 for their cutscenes D:

[ImperialOperative]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Basically when they made Uncharted 2 (I'm not 100% positive on the first one), they mocapped all of the actors as well as record the dialogue.  

So they would act out the scenes, the designers would render the animations in engine and tweak it and adjust the dialogue accordingly. 

The same thing was done in Heavenly Sword. 

Same in The Force Unleashed.

[Ultai]

There were some improvements in the animation in ME2, however I dunno wtf they did to the walking animation...the running animation could use a tweak as well.

[Dick Delaware]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Basically when they made Uncharted 2 (I'm not 100% positive on the first one), they mocapped all of the actors as well as record the dialogue.  

So they would act out the scenes, the designers would render the animations in engine and tweak it and adjust the dialogue accordingly. 

The same thing was done in Heavenly Sword. 

I'm familiar with movies doing this, but it's the first time I've heard of a game doing it. It sounds like a really good idea. If it doesn't detract from making satisfying consequences with a lot of different quest solutions in ME3, good tactical combat improvements, etc., I'd really love to see something like this in ME3.

It would make perfect sense given that the all three games go for a cinematic feel. Animations can really make or break a lot of these scenes. it would be really goofy seeing so many characters slam their fist against their palm for emphasis in ME1 (and to a significantly lesser extent, ME2) or Leliana's eyes rolling around the back of her head combined with the spotty  lip-synching during her song in DA:O.

[Dick Delaware]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Imagine how much better ME could have been if it used mo-cap like MGS4 for their cutscenes D:

I'm curious as to how expensive it is. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty certain that both ME games contain far more dialogue and cinematics than either Metal Gear Solid 4 or Uncharted, meaning that you would need much more motion capture, right?

[TJSolo]

Tazzmission wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Seriously? No wonder it looks so stilted. There's no substitute for motion capture, guys.

if you think you can do better than do it otherwise chill

You don't need to be able to make a product in order to be able to give feedback about the product.
Some of the ME2 animations have less detail then ME1s. Like then turning Shepard 90/180/360deg in ME1 Shep is animated to shift his weight and pivot, ME2 cuts this short a few frames with less of a pivot.

[CHT87]

You can not really compare a game like Uncharted with ME.

The scope of ME is far bigger and what they did with the animations is suffice.



What they could do is integrate a new movement and physics engine like Euphoria (GTA IV, The Force Unleashed). But that would also cost them lots of money and time.

[Dick Delaware]

CHT87 wrote...

You can not really compare a game like Uncharted with ME.
The scope of ME is far bigger and what they did with the animations is suffice.

What they could do is integrate a new movement and physics engine like Euphoria (GTA IV, The Force Unleashed). But that would also cost them lots of money and time.

Yeah, it's all a big trade-off. Honestly, I thought the animations in ME2 were pretty good for the most part, they could just continue along the lines of the improvements they made in the sequel without having to overhaul things completely if it's prohibitively expensive or will take time away from making a branching plot with lots of different outcomes for the various people/races you met in the first two games.

[bas273]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Dick Delaware wrote...

bas273 wrote...

Graphics don't really matter imo. This game looks great but I think the story and companions are much more important.

True, but that's not the issue here. Good animation can add a lot to a game and make you respond to a character's facial gestures much more strongly. Anyways, I thought the animations were significantly better in the second game than they were in the first. Much more lifelike. I haven't played Uncharted, however, so I can't say how ME compares to that game.

Basically when they made Uncharted 2 (I'm not 100% positive on the first one), they mocapped all of the actors as well as record the dialogue.  

So they would act out the scenes, the designers would render the animations in engine and tweak it and adjust the dialogue accordingly. 

The same thing was done in Heavenly Sword. 

While motion capturing might add a lot to this game, I'm already very happy with the facial animations. This game makes Fallout 3 / Oblivion look bad imo.

[wolfsite]

You know if they had a day where it was required that people could not post any complaints and opinionated garbage this board would be dead silent for 24 hours.



Stop nitpicking, I can't believe that there is such an overwhelmingly positive response to the game yet people have to find such trivial and overall pointless things to complain about hell right now I'm pretty much starting to contradict myself since I'm complaining about complainers.

[Dick Delaware]

wolfsite wrote...

You know if they had a day where it was required that people could not post any complaints and opinionated garbage this board would be dead silent for 24 hours.

Stop nitpicking, I can't believe that there is such an overwhelmingly positive response to the game yet people have to find such trivial and overall pointless things to complain about hell right now I'm pretty much starting to contradict myself since I'm complaining about complainers.

Normally I'd agree with you, but this is actually a somewhat decent discussion. Because one of the fundamental aspects of the series is cinematics, it's interesting to speculate how things could be improved further. From what other posters tell me, games like Uncharted have superior animation (which goes a very long way in cinematic-type games because it makes characters appear more lifelike) to ME2 because of motion capture. It's clear that motion capture is a great tool and we'll likely be seeing more of it in the future, but considering the fact that both ME games probably have far more dialogue moments than Uncharted 2, it might be prohibitively expensive. I could be wrong about a few things here, though.

[Zinoviy]

Ski Mask Wei wrote...

In the future they probably need to start using the process Avatar uses for their digital actors. I know I've played game too much but now I notice recycled walk and other routines while playing. It's kind of distracting.

Lol.

[bas273]

wolfsite wrote...

You know if they had a day where it was required that people could not post any complaints and opinionated garbage this board would be dead silent for 24 hours.

Stop nitpicking, I can't believe that there is such an overwhelmingly positive response to the game yet people have to find such trivial and overall pointless things to complain about hell right now I'm pretty much starting to contradict myself since I'm complaining about complainers.

It's also a thing with official forums. Dunno why. The official Battlefield Bad Company 2 and Borderlands forums are filled with complaints but if you look up a fan forum you actually see some really interesting discussions.

And criticism isn't always bad. People like this game so much that they wish some parts of it would've been better. Same for me. Mass Effect 1 and 2 are my favorite games ever but they're not perfect. I'd love to see more dialogue with your companions in ME2 and more romance scenes (without sex, just talking). But I understand that this is just a game and I'm happy with the product Bioware delivered to us.
Criticism shows you care for a game and want it to be better (not in all cases ofc).

[wolfsite]

Dick Delaware wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

You know if they had a day where it was required that people could not post any complaints and opinionated garbage this board would be dead silent for 24 hours.

Stop nitpicking, I can't believe that there is such an overwhelmingly positive response to the game yet people have to find such trivial and overall pointless things to complain about hell right now I'm pretty much starting to contradict myself since I'm complaining about complainers.

Normally I'd agree with you, but this is actually a somewhat decent discussion. Because one of the fundamental aspects of the series is cinematics, it's interesting to speculate how things could be improved further. From what other posters tell me, games like Uncharted have superior animation (which goes a very long way in cinematic-type games because it makes characters appear more lifelike) to ME2 because of motion capture. It's clear that motion capture is a great tool and we'll likely be seeing more of it in the future, but considering the fact that both ME games probably have far more dialogue moments than Uncharted 2, it might be prohibitively expensive. I could be wrong about a few things here, though.

Ya I'm probably just getting fed up with seeing nothing but complaints lately.  Can't imagine what the Moderators and Bioware staff feel like having to sift threw it all.

bas273 wrote...

It's also a thing with official
forums. Dunno why. The official Battlefield Bad Company 2 and
Borderlands forums are filled with complaints but if you look up a fan
forum you actually see some really interesting discussions.

And
criticism isn't always bad. People like this game so much that they wish
some parts of it would've been better. Same for me. Mass Effect 1 and 2
are my favorite games ever but they're not perfect. I'd love to see
more dialogue with your companions in ME2 and more romance scenes
(without sex, just talking). But I understand that this is just a game
and I'm happy with the product Bioware delivered to us.
Criticism
shows you care for a game and want it to be better (not in all cases
ofc).

Ya, again it just feels like a good chunk of it is mainly due to a small number of people.  I have seen some decent discussions happen and a proper discussion can lead to potential game improvements.

It's just lately it feels like nothing complaining for the sake of complaining.  Maybe everyone just need to step back take a good breath, relax then come back.

Modifié par wolfsite, 06 mai 2010 - 06:23 .