63 réponses à ce sujet

[intersect]

Dick Delaware wrote...

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Imagine how much better ME could have been if it used mo-cap like MGS4 for their cutscenes D:

I'm curious as to how expensive it is. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty certain that both ME games contain far more dialogue and cinematics than either Metal Gear Solid 4 or Uncharted, meaning that you would need much more motion capture, right?

While I know ME2 has much more dialogue in player controlled scenes, MGS4 had about 7-9 hours of cutscenes when all was spiced together

[Siansonea]

This is meant to be constructive feedback, not 'complaining'. Limiting your feedback to gushing about how great the game is isn't very helpful. If you want to let them know they're doing a good job, you buy the game and DLC.

[wolfsite]

Oh and to Siansonea II:



I think I just inadvertently de-railed this thread. I would like to offer my apologies to you. It was not my intent, I think I just needed to get that out of my system (I do feel better)



But again my apologies.

[Siansonea]

slimgrin wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

It isn't motion capture, it's hand-animated.

Which games utilize what? I just beat SSF4 and it has exquisite animations at the end as the credits run. My buddy and I couldn't tell if it was hand animated (what I assume the in-game animations are) or if it was motion capture. Honestly, Capcom games always deliver in the artistic and animation dept. Bioware could learn from them.

I thought the motion capture in Resident Evil 5 was excellent. The voice acting, on the other hand...

[Siansonea]

wolfsite wrote...

Oh and to Siansonea II:

I think I just inadvertently de-railed this thread. I would like to offer my apologies to you. It was not my intent, I think I just needed to get that out of my system (I do feel better)

But again my apologies.

No worries, I think we're back on track now.

[ImperialOperative]

slimgrin wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

It isn't motion capture, it's hand-animated.

Which games utilize what? I just beat SSF4 and it has exquisite animations at the end as the credits run. My buddy and I couldn't tell if it was hand animated (what I assume the in-game animations are) or if it was motion capture. Honestly, Capcom games always deliver in the artistic and animation dept. Bioware could learn from them.

Difference being that SSF4 has a handful of characters that are the entirety of the focus.  It's a fighting game, so animations are the single most important thing they need to do because a fighting game with less than great animations is a bad fighting game.

Modifié par ImperialOperative, 06 mai 2010 - 07:19 .

[sonsonthebia07]

Siansonea II wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

It isn't motion capture, it's hand-animated.

Which games utilize what? I just beat SSF4 and it has exquisite animations at the end as the credits run. My buddy and I couldn't tell if it was hand animated (what I assume the in-game animations are) or if it was motion capture. Honestly, Capcom games always deliver in the artistic and animation dept. Bioware could learn from them.

I thought the motion capture in Resident Evil 5 was excellent. The voice acting, on the other hand...

S:"C'mon!"  C: "Roger"
S: "Hurry up!" C: "Roger..."
S: "Chris!" C: "....roger..."
S: "C'mon!" C: "God damnit this rocket launcher is heavy, stop with the nagging already you repressive ****!"


On topic, I'm actually rather pleased with the detailed motion capturing in Mass Effect in comparison to other games (Fallout 3 for example). That said, I haven't played a lot of these PS3 exclusives, so I can't quote them.

edit: Actually, one issue that I have is the smiling in the game - it looks creepy no matter if you play a default Shepard or a custom one. The Chakwas scene is a very good example of this.

Modifié par sonsonthebia07, 06 mai 2010 - 07:40 .

[cruc1al]

I don't mind much about the body animations; in ME2, they were good enough, and especially combat animations were excellent IMO. I don't doubt that they could be improved with motion capture, but there's probably not much time and resources for that.



Facial animations, however, partly take away from the immersion, and there's a lot you could add to the realism with motion capture tech. I'm hoping BW more complex faces in ME3 and mocap's facial animations so that we can better connect with our custom Shepard and NPCs.

[eisc0rn]

complaining about animations? I bet you guys have never played a bethesda game

[bandfred]

I'd rather have Bioware's animations than Bethesda's.

[bas273]

Just wondering... is it possible to motion capture a custom face? Because it would look a bit weird if all your squad mates are motion captured but your custom made Shepard is animated.

[Dick Delaware]

eisc0rn wrote...

complaining about animations? I bet you guys have never played a bethesda game

I think very few people are complaining. Folks here are just looking at what some of the best games in terms of animation have done (i.e. Uncharted) and suggesting that it might be a good idea for BioWare to take some cues from those games, just like they took cues from Gears of War to improve shooting mechanics.

The animations in ME2 are very good and an important part of the game considering the cinematic feel that the series strives for, so why not make that already good aspect even better? Well, provided there's enough money for it, and it won't detract from other important aspects, of course.

And yeah, Beth games have terrible animation.

[Atmosfear3]

bas273 wrote...

Just wondering... is it possible to motion capture a custom face? Because it would look a bit weird if all your squad mates are motion captured but your custom made Shepard is animated.

Very doubtful.  It would be very difficult to get every custom face to conform to the animations.  If there was only one Shepard maybe it would be viable.

[noobzor99]

there is a lot more object clipping in ME2... whenever my shep or jacob crosses their arms I cringe a little...

[eisc0rn]

Dick Delaware wrote...

eisc0rn wrote...

complaining about animations? I bet you guys have never played a bethesda game

words

And yeah, Beth games have terrible animation.

heh, I'm just happy that Bethesda doesn't make the anims for ME2
and by terrible you mean TERRIBLE BEYOND BELIEF
But I agree with you, wouldn't hurt to improve them even further

Modifié par eisc0rn, 06 mai 2010 - 07:50 .

[ImperialOperative]

slimgrin wrote...

Isn't motion capture already used for the cut scenes?

Yes, Bethesda games are some of the worst I have seen. Animation is an art. If Bioware only hired animators who were on par with their writers...

No, the cut-scenes are machinima.

[bas273]

It doesn't really help that in Bethesda games all dialogues are static. You talk to a NPC and he's just standing there. In Dragon Age / Mass Effect, people MOVE AROUND, perform simple actions and show emotions. Just like in real life.

I used to love Oblivion/Fallout3 but then I played Dragon Age and my jaw dropped when me and Duncan had a conversation with the King in Ostagar. The way he turned his back to us and walked back and forth, while it might sound a bit simplistic, was awesome.

Srry for getting a bit off-topic ^^

[hex23]

"Uncharted 2" is kind of a bad comparison considering it's a linear 10ish hour action adventure game built on a custom graphics engine compared to "ME2", a 30-40 hour action RPG game based on Unreal 3 tech.

[SuperMedbh]

Mocap isn't some magic "cure all". It provides a raw framework for the animators to work with. You also need a good actor, with the right proportions. I've seen unnatural looking animations that have been mocapped. Sometimes rotoscoping will provide an adequate, or even superior reference. Sometimes the animation is best made out of whole cloth.



As an aside, the facial animation for ME2 was wonderful, complete with a lot of subtle visual "tics". I loved the little details like the slight widening of the eyes when Shepard tells the Yeoman "that will be all". There's psychological reasons that's an almost universal gesture at the end of a formal conversation, and the animators nailed it. If I had to guess, since Bioware hangs its hat on storytelling, the budget/focus went into the cutscenes, for that's where the interaction is.

[eisc0rn]

bas273 wrote...

It doesn't really help that in Bethesda games all dialogues are static. You talk to a NPC and he's just standing there. In Dragon Age / Mass Effect, people MOVE AROUND, perform simple actions and show emotions. Just like in real life.
I used to love Oblivion/Fallout3 but then I played Dragon Age and my jaw dropped when me and Duncan had a conversation with the King in Ostagar. The way he turned his back to us and walked back and forth, while it might sound a bit simplistic, was awesome.
Srry for getting a bit off-topic ^^

STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM!

[Siansonea]

SuperMedbh wrote...

Mocap isn't some magic "cure all". It provides a raw framework for the animators to work with. You also need a good actor, with the right proportions. I've seen unnatural looking animations that have been mocapped. Sometimes rotoscoping will provide an adequate, or even superior reference. Sometimes the animation is best made out of whole cloth.

As an aside, the facial animation for ME2 was wonderful, complete with a lot of subtle visual "tics". I loved the little details like the slight widening of the eyes when Shepard tells the Yeoman "that will be all". There's psychological reasons that's an almost universal gesture at the end of a formal conversation, and the animators nailed it. If I had to guess, since Bioware hangs its hat on storytelling, the budget/focus went into the cutscenes, for that's where the interaction is.

I think the facial animation is okay for the most part, it's the body movement that feels more unnatural to me. I also don't like the fact that depending on your conversation choices, Shepard and sometimes other characters shift position very suddenly, sometimes disappearing and reappearing in a different part of the frame.

[Onyx Jaguar]

hex23 wrote...

"Uncharted 2" is kind of a bad comparison considering it's a linear 10ish hour action adventure game built on a custom graphics engine compared to "ME2", a 30-40 hour action RPG game based on Unreal 3 tech.

If you are looking for the most progressive system, you single out the one that has done the best so far.  And that is Uncharted 2.