63 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredvdp]

Tazzmission wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Seriously? No wonder it looks so stilted. There's no substitute for motion capture, guys.

if you think you can do better than do it otherwise chill

I read this argument often and it's rubbish. It's perfectly possible to give criticism even if you suck at it yourself. Can I not judge a bottle of wine because I can't make it myself?

Doesn't mean I agree with him, though. I really liked the animation in Mass Effect 1 & 2.

bas273 wrote...

While motion capturing might add a lot to
this game, I'm already very happy with the facial animations. This game
makes Fallout 3 / Oblivion look bad imo.

Facial animation in Donkey Kong Country makes Oblivion and Fallout 3 look bad. Bethesda has the stiffest facial animations in the industry.

Modifié par Fredvdp, 06 mai 2010 - 09:05 .

[AnathamaDye]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

After seeing how Uncharted was made I wholeheartedly believe that motion capture is where games with a cinematic flair need to go. There is something cold and disconnected with how ME is presented in comparison.

I second that.  The only problem I have with the motion is it gets kinda blurry sometimes...especally when your are trying to get a screenshot.

[SuperMedbh]

Yeah, it's always the transitions (like a sudden jump back to the neutral point). Mocap won't fix that--that's due to not having "tweening" between two keyframes (here, the start and the finish).



If I had to name my biggest graphics gripe, it's that you can see a surprising number of mesh glitches in the cut scenes (the flickering as two surfaces alternate between which one is visible). You see this a good bit with eyelids and the edge of clothing. Considering how much time they invested in the facial expressions, I was taken aback by that.

[Gorn Kregore]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

hex23 wrote...

"Uncharted 2" is kind of a bad comparison considering it's a linear 10ish hour action adventure game built on a custom graphics engine compared to "ME2", a 30-40 hour action RPG game based on Unreal 3 tech.

If you are looking for the most progressive system, you single out the one that has done the best so far.  And that is Uncharted 2.

grahpics n anims is the only thing that game's good for

[Jackal904]

The graphics in ME2 are phenomal, especially considering how it has virtually no texture pop-in. And the animations themselves are great, although I have noticed a few animation glitches in my recent playthroughs.

[Dick Delaware]

SuperMedbh wrote...

Mocap isn't some magic "cure all". It provides a raw framework for the animators to work with. You also need a good actor, with the right proportions. I've seen unnatural looking animations that have been mocapped. Sometimes rotoscoping will provide an adequate, or even superior reference. Sometimes the animation is best made out of whole cloth.

As an aside, the facial animation for ME2 was wonderful, complete with a lot of subtle visual "tics". I loved the little details like the slight widening of the eyes when Shepard tells the Yeoman "that will be all". There's psychological reasons that's an almost universal gesture at the end of a formal conversation, and the animators nailed it. If I had to guess, since Bioware hangs its hat on storytelling, the budget/focus went into the cutscenes, for that's where the interaction is.

Thanks very much for the input, SuperMedbh, I didn't know that. Motion captures presents its own set of challenges as well, then. I could see how motion capture could be done for certain characters in ME however, particularly Miranda and The Illusive Man, considering that they're modelled after their respective voice actors. Would it be possible to use motion capture for some characters, but animating from scratch for others? I'm sure it would be pretty tough to find an actor of Grunt's proportions!

P.S. I notice you've sigged me. That makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

[SuperMedbh]

Heh-- your quote made me LOL for real. And yes, a mix will work fine. A lot of animation involves a bit of exaggeration: just as the characters are exaggerated ideals, action moves will often be too. It makes a stronger impression. For example, an arm winding backwards before a throw might actually bend a bit between the elbow and wrist. You won't notice it, but it conveys an impression of movement that 100% copying would not. I'm probably explaining this badly; it helps to see an example:







For the record, I'm not an animator, I've just played with it (basic character rigs, etc). It's a tough artform, and I've a great deal of respect for those who make it look easy.

[FREEGUNNER]

1)  Mocap is time consuming and expensive
2)  Certain scenes would be almost impossible in mocap(shepard floating in space and then getting slammed against wall of normandy from explosion)
3)  Bioware was probably going for a more stylized approach anyway

Which games utilize what? I just beat SSF4 and it has exquisite animations at the end as the credits run. My buddy and I couldn't tell if it was hand animated (what I assume the in-game animations are) or if it was motion capture. Honestly, Capcom games always deliver in the artistic and animation dept. Bioware could learn from them.

SF4 doesn't use unreal engine 3...

comparing apples to oranges

Modifié par FREEGUNNER, 07 mai 2010 - 06:30 .

[FluxDeluxe]

cachx wrote...

While I think the games look very good. Sometimes I cringe at Bioware cutting corners in the animation department.

Sharing animation rigs between males and females is the one that bothers me the most.

This...
 
I don't think it's a s noticable in me as it is in dragon age...
my god my female elven mage in cutscenes walked round like sha had a quad...
Really, really poor imo.
 
Interms of motion capture, i think it's excellent. All the Asari Dancers in after life are motion captured and they are amazing.

[FlyingWalrus]

Now I'm noticing Shepard's ganky limp-walk. I blame all of you whiners for it.

All kidding aside, I think hand-animated stuff can look really good as well. Motion capture is all nice and good, but hand animation can give you some nice and stylized animations. I believe Prince of Persia: Sands of Time was all hand-animated and Ubisoft Montreal made a point of stressing this fact as an artistic choice. And you know what? It worked really well.

For being hand-animated, ME1 was really great, but the actions do look very "stock" and limited nowadays. I think ME2 mostly remedied this... in scenes, anyhow.

EDIT: Someone brought up Street Fighter 4. While that's animation on a 2D plane, it IS all hand-animated and you will note that it is very smooth and lifelike animation at that. A great, present-gen example.

Modifié par FlyingWalrus, 07 mai 2010 - 10:34 .

[Vena_86]

Actually I am quite surprised to read that MEs animations are all handmade. I thought they are motion captured before just not perfectly implemented at times. The animators did a real good job with what they had.

But mo-cap is ofcourse the best possible way.

Animations can really pull a game down these days when looking as wooden as in Oblivion or FO3. ME/ME2 animations are far better. The only problem I have is that male and fem shepard animations are the same. It looked good and balanced in ME1 but in ME2 its is totally on the side of male shepard. My only gripe with animations.

[atheelogos]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

After seeing how Uncharted was made I wholeheartedly believe that motion capture is where games with a cinematic flair need to go. There is something cold and disconnected with how ME is presented in comparison.

True

[BonFire5]

Why not hire theatre actors for MoCap? That would get across the whole Space Opera feel they were going for.

Why the Shep's share idle and run styles is beyond me. They already make FemShep wear makeup and have long, ridiculous hair. They may as well have gone the full mile and let her run like a woman.