46 réponses à ce sujet

[Nu-Nu]

She also turns into a white, almost puppy like wolf if you don't agree with her to do the ritual. Makes me think her soul is quite innocent like a child.

Someone who's only after power would turn into something far more fierce like a snarling doberman.

Modifié par Nu-Nu, 07 mai 2010 - 12:41 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

In honesty, I do like her character. She is tough and gritty and stands for what she believes in. I think she has her own set of values. I think she gets hurt if you don't agree with her. Living with Flemeth had to harden her. I think she dislikes Alistair on two points. First off he is a templar, and second he is wimp with no backbone at first. Sten forces Alistair to show his backbone.

[jpdipity]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

The question needs to be asked did she offer the ritual to really save your life as your true friend or was she jealous that you got to the male grey warden before she did and he swore he couldn't stand her. Morrigan and Flemeth were all about possession after all. Is there really a god child demon baby or did she lie to have one night stand with your man? I haven't played any other class, does she offer this ritual to other races?

The scene that was cut (depicted in the comic) was a scene that would only show if you were friends with Morrigan.  So, I don't think jealousy is a part of it otherwise it would have occured regardless of your relationship status with Morrigan.  She is also very visibly upset about even having do the ritual; so, I believe that she is reluctantly doing it and it is not because of jealously.

FYI - I believe the comic is in the blog on the Bioware DAO home page.

[eucatastrophe]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

What do you value and what's your moral breaking point? I valued Alistair's life more than his fidelity for one night. So, even though it was difficult (and always is) for me to allow the ritual, I did it for both him and me. This way neither of us would have to be faced with the terrible choice of dying or living alone without our LI. Also I became friends with Morrigan and knew her to be amoral and self serving, because this child would be valuable to her personally it would be well cared for. Furthermore, through our friendship, Morrigan has learned there is value in affection for another person. I think this will influence how she raises the child.

Wow, just lovely.
I genuinely like Morrigan and I always feel terribly sorry for her. I think deep down inside she is hurting, but she won't know it until the end.

I agree 100% with what you've expressed! 

[ejoslin]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Alistair puts the brakes on with Morrigan at the beginning of the game in the Kocari Wilds and in Lothering if you listen to their conversation. Sten also shuts her down and isn't impressed with her as a women. Alistair wasn't haven't it and the only way she could get to him was through you the HNF Grey Warden. She comes to you not Alistair to make the offer. She also comes to the HNM to make the offer and not Alistair.

Alistair and Morrigan disliked each other on sight.  She was very derisive of him in your first conversation with her after Flemmeth rescues you.  And it was apparent he disliked her just as much when Flemmeth said Morrigan would join you.

Yes, I know they disliked each other, we're basically saying the same thing here.

I thought you were implying that Alistair closed down Morrigan instead of it being completely mutual.  My bad.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

ejoslin wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Alistair puts the brakes on with Morrigan at the beginning of the game in the Kocari Wilds and in Lothering if you listen to their conversation. Sten also shuts her down and isn't impressed with her as a women. Alistair wasn't haven't it and the only way she could get to him was through you the HNF Grey Warden. She comes to you not Alistair to make the offer. She also comes to the HNM to make the offer and not Alistair.

Alistair and Morrigan disliked each other on sight.  She was very derisive of him in your first conversation with her after Flemmeth rescues you.  And it was apparent he disliked her just as much when Flemmeth said Morrigan would join you.

Yes, I know they disliked each other, we're basically saying the same thing here.

I thought you were implying that Alistair closed down Morrigan instead of it being completely mutual.  My bad.

[Kryyptehk]

I hate when people say that it is so obvious that Morrigan and Alistair secretly love each other because of the way they treat each other. And not because I'm an Ali-girl either but because that makes no freaking sense. I hate that idea in any other work of fiction because only someone who is so insecure with themselves would act that way around someone they like. And if Morrigan wanted to be with Alistair, she'd treat him like she treats you when she romances you. Even if Alistair is a templar, your character can act exactly like him and she will like you.



That being said, I do believe they are attracted to each other (Ali admits it to a Male!Warden and Morri doesn't seem all that disappointed about having to sleep with him). But there is no way their relationship would go past sex...or at least any way that I can see. I just don't think either of them would put the kind of commit required of that kind of relationship. Morri tries to break up with you and Ali understand if you break up with him. Meaning, Morri would break up with him if they got too close and Ali would immediately back down.



That being said, Ali and Morri are my favorite characters and their relationship is an awesome dynamic.

[Nu-Nu]

Alistair gets upsets with me when I say I like Morrigan when we have our little gossip. Proof enough he doesn't like her as person. And I play as a female warden.

[ObserverStatus]

I don't see Alistair growing fond of Morrigan after sleeping with her, he only did it in order for himself and your warden to survive.

BTW, could anyone quote that conversation between Leliana and Alistair about Morrigan and the Warden? Something about her being a vile fiend?

[blademaster7]

^That would be Leliana.What you are looking for is the Alistair/Wynne banter. Here's both:

Alistair: So have you heard? Morrigan and him are... you know.

Leliana: Have you nothing better to do than spread idle gossip. And besides, he can probably hear us both. You're not being very discreet.

Alistair: No, look, he's not even paying attention.

Leliana: Hmmm. Maybe. You don't... think that he's serious about it, do you? The woman is a vile fiend.

Alistair: Well, look here, now who's an idle gossip? Me-ow!

Leliana: You're the one who started this, I might remind you. And I'm... well, I'm ending it!

----

Alistair: So you know about him and Morrigan, right? You've heard?

Wynne: I think I know what you are talking about, yes.

Alistair: And you agree with it? You don't think that it's... dangerous?

Wynne: Dangerous for whom? Her? Or Him?

Alistair: Anyone. She's maleficar... and rotten to the core. How can he even... this can't be a good idea. She can't be a good influence on him.

Wynne: I will admit that the thought did cross my mind, several times. But look at it another way...

Wynne: Perhaps he will be a good influence on her.

Alistair: You know, you are just too understanding about stuff like this. Can't you be more judgmental? I'm trying to rant, here.

Wynne: Oh, I'm sorry. You go ahead and rant, dear, and I'll just nod my head if you like.


EDIT: i got ninja'd by the post above...

Modifié par blademaster7, 14 mai 2010 - 09:07 .

[Kryyptehk]

TheGrumpyOne wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

{Snip}

That being said, I do believe they are attracted to each other (Ali admits it to a Male!Warden and Morri doesn't seem all that disappointed about having to sleep with him). But there is no way their relationship would go past sex...or at least any way that I can see. I just don't think either of them would put the kind of commit required of that kind of relationship. Morri tries to break up with you and Ali understand if you break up with him. Meaning, Morri would break up with him if they got too close and Ali would immediately back down.

That being said, Ali and Morri are my favorite characters and their relationship is an awesome dynamic.

When does this happen? I haven't found this dialogue in the Toolset. I've played the game over 20 times and i have never heard Alistair admit that he finds Morrigan attractive to the Fem/Male Warden.

The Toolset dialogue notes say the opposite, it is just pure unadulterated hate between them both. There is Zero sexual tension and no chemistry. Morrigan wants the Old God, for some unknown reason? Being in love with her, doesn't even have to play into doing the DR.  She doesn't really care which of the two Wardens sleep with her.

To be honest, I've never heard the dialogue either. People who argue that Ali and Morri are secretly in love say that Alistair gets flustered if you ask him if he thinks Morrigan is beautiful. I'm kind of working on that info.

[Addai]

TheGrumpyOne wrote...

When does this happen? I haven't found this dialogue in the Toolset. I've played the game over 20 times and i have never heard Alistair admit that he finds Morrigan attractive to the Fem/Male Warden.

It's in the gossip about your party members dialogue for a male PC.  As I recall, the PC can say "don't you find her beautiful?" and Alistair agrees that she is.  But in the same convo, calls her evil, a b*tch, etc.  So the point about dislike still holds.  You can find someone physically attractive in theory and still find them repulsive as a person.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 mai 2010 - 09:17 .

[Kryyptehk]

Addai67 wrote...

TheGrumpyOne wrote...

When does this happen? I haven't found this dialogue in the Toolset. I've played the game over 20 times and i have never heard Alistair admit that he finds Morrigan attractive to the Fem/Male Warden.

It's in the gossip about your party members dialogue for a male PC.  As I recall, the PC can say "don't you find her beautiful?" and Alistair agrees that she is.  But in the same convo, calls her evil, a b*tch, etc.  So the point about dislike still holds.  You can find someone physically attractive in theory and still find them repulsive as a person.

This. I should have clerified in my previous post that even if they were attracted to each other, it would be a far stretch to assume they'd bed each other. Actually, I think it would be more likely that Ali and Leliana would grow close enough to do that....or Wynne lol. Maybe Zevran if he could convince Ali:P

[ObserverStatus]

Hmmm, I was looking for the Leliana/Alistair one but I hadn't heard the Alistair/Wynne one, thanks for posting!

[ejoslin]

The thing is, I got the impression that they were secretly hot for each other during my first playthrough (unspoiled) because there IS so much dislike there. Looking at the toolset shows me I'm wrong (and I never argued it) but it really did sound to me like an attraction to someone you don't like making some serious sparks.

[Kryyptehk]

ejoslin wrote...

The thing is, I got the impression that they were secretly hot for each other during my first playthrough (unspoiled) because there IS so much dislike there. Looking at the toolset shows me I'm wrong (and I never argued it) but it really did sound to me like an attraction to someone you don't like making some serious sparks.

I never got that impression because of how much they disliked each other. I was unspoiled my first play through as well. Him being a templar and her an apostate made sense to me. And she constantly belittled him because of this fact and because she thinks he is foolish. And besides them constantely picking at each other (which I akin to sibling rivalry) and Alistair calling her a b!tch, there isn't THAT much dislike between them. They just lash out when they are forced to work together.

But I truely hate that writing cliche and will immediately put down a book or quit watching a movie if that stuff starts happening. I'd be severely disappointed if Bioware played that card.

[ejoslin]

Kryyptehk wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The thing is, I got the impression that they were secretly hot for each other during my first playthrough (unspoiled) because there IS so much dislike there. Looking at the toolset shows me I'm wrong (and I never argued it) but it really did sound to me like an attraction to someone you don't like making some serious sparks.

I never got that impression because of how much they disliked each other. I was unspoiled my first play through as well. Him being a templar and her an apostate made sense to me. And she constantly belittled him because of this fact and because she thinks he is foolish. And besides them constantely picking at each other (which I akin to sibling rivalry) and Alistair calling her a b!tch, there isn't THAT much dislike between them. They just lash out when they are forced to work together.

But I truely hate that writing cliche and will immediately put down a book or quit watching a movie if that stuff starts happening. I'd be severely disappointed if Bioware played that card.

But they didn't play that card.  I was just trying to explain why someone WOULD feel that way since I did.  It was very obvious they disliked each other, but they seemed to go out of their way to get on each other's nerves.  It seemed to me to be a passion of a kind (a very destructive kind).  I never did get the feeling that Alistair WANTED the DR, and it's obvious he had to be talked into it.

[Kryyptehk]

ejoslin wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The thing is, I got the impression that they were secretly hot for each other during my first playthrough (unspoiled) because there IS so much dislike there. Looking at the toolset shows me I'm wrong (and I never argued it) but it really did sound to me like an attraction to someone you don't like making some serious sparks.

I never got that impression because of how much they disliked each other. I was unspoiled my first play through as well. Him being a templar and her an apostate made sense to me. And she constantly belittled him because of this fact and because she thinks he is foolish. And besides them constantely picking at each other (which I akin to sibling rivalry) and Alistair calling her a b!tch, there isn't THAT much dislike between them. They just lash out when they are forced to work together.

But I truely hate that writing cliche and will immediately put down a book or quit watching a movie if that stuff starts happening. I'd be severely disappointed if Bioware played that card.

But they didn't play that card.  I was just trying to explain why someone WOULD feel that way since I did.  It was very obvious they disliked each other, but they seemed to go out of their way to get on each other's nerves.  It seemed to me to be a passion of a kind (a very destructive kind).  I never did get the feeling that Alistair WANTED the DR, and it's obvious he had to be talked into it.

Maybe I didn't think it was weird because Wynne also went out of her way to attack Morrigan and eventually Morrigan did too. Morrigan just doesn't get along with anyone:P

That's why I mention how much I hate the cliche, to express how relieved I was that they were both romancable, thus that they weren't going to get with each other.