112 réponses à ce sujet

[khevan]

Kid_SixXx wrote...

Soldiers don't run away.  We are either advancing or in retrograde to find superior position.

It's called "advancing to the rear"...just sayin'

[jaff00]

Kid_SixXx wrote...

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

As for how good a shot you are & reading the battleground winning the combat.

You dont even need to be a good shot when you can just slow down the game by 50%-70% for 5 seconds & if you get in trouble you can just slow down the game & runaway.

5 secs with a cooldown.  If any solders waits for cooldown to end for AR before he starts shooting again, he's too reliant on the time dialation and needs to be a better shot.

Or those people are the ones to take notice of the 100/140% damage bonus when AR is on and then figure out that this translates to less bullets required per target and thus put two and two together: it saves ammo.
Then again, I'm not one of those people, I just spray.

About soldiers spamming concussive shot instead of popping AR - Like I mentioned elsewhere, if you want to insist on using a fork to munch your soup that's your business but you really shouldn't surprised when someone feels compelled to point out you're being a ******.

Modifié par jaff00, 07 mai 2010 - 02:00 .

[SmokeyNinjas]

Kid_SixXx wrote...

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

As for how good a shot you are & reading the battleground winning the combat.

You dont even need to be a good shot when you can just slow down the game by 50%-70% for 5 seconds & if you get in trouble you can just slow down the game & runaway.

5 secs with a cooldown.  If any solders waits for cooldown to end for AR before he starts shooting again, he's too reliant on the time dialation and needs to be a better shot.

Soldiers don't run away.  We are either advancing or in retrograde to find superior position.

Call escaping death when you **** up whatever you want

Kid_SixXx wrote...

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

Adrenaline Rush gets a sickly short cooldown.

Which costs skill points to develop like any other power.  AR is only as good as the points you put into the power.

6 whole points! not like you can't get them from the start of the game by importing a lvl 60 char from me1

[SpiderFan1217]

I still play a soilder. I feel a little left out. There is nothing new for my class, and they took away immunity. I miss being an immunity tank. I still like the soilder class best though.

[JaegerBane]

Tilarta wrote...

I've been thinking about this for a while now, probably since Hammerhead and Kasumi came out.

Soldier seems to be an underrepresented class in ME2.

To start with, Squadmates.

Counting the core Squadmates only, 1 out of 10 is a soldier.
In ME1, it was 2 out of 5.
In terms of ratio, ME1 - 40%, ME2 -10%.

At the very least, they should have provided one extra squadmate (in addition to Grunt) who was an actual soldier, so a team of 3 Soldiers should be possible.

Now, let's review the upgrades.
As you can see, both of these ability pools recieves 3 kinds of upgrades, in Cooldown, Damage and Duration.

Combat Powers have none of these bonuses.

And all the new armor pieces they're adding as DLC are for Biotics and Techs.


It's starting to look a lot like they didn't really prioritize Soldier in relation to Techs and Biotics.

To be honest, this is one the more absurd arguments I've heard on these forums. To ignore the fact that the soldier is the only class in the game that combines a power that handles any defence, access to all the best weapons *and* has a class power that is *always* useful against any opponent, and to claim that it's ignored on the basis of the number of tech and biotic upgrades.... it's just utter nonsense.

Seriously man, find something else to complain about. Next you'll be telling us that star trek actors are getting ignored in favour of battlestar galactica ones.

[SpiderFan1217]

JaegerBane wrote...

Tilarta wrote...

I've been thinking about this for a while now, probably since Hammerhead and Kasumi came out.

Soldier seems to be an underrepresented class in ME2.

To start with, Squadmates.

Counting the core Squadmates only, 1 out of 10 is a soldier.
In ME1, it was 2 out of 5.
In terms of ratio, ME1 - 40%, ME2 -10%.

At the very least, they should have provided one extra squadmate (in addition to Grunt) who was an actual soldier, so a team of 3 Soldiers should be possible.

Now, let's review the upgrades.
As you can see, both of these ability pools recieves 3 kinds of upgrades, in Cooldown, Damage and Duration.

Combat Powers have none of these bonuses.

And all the new armor pieces they're adding as DLC are for Biotics and Techs.


It's starting to look a lot like they didn't really prioritize Soldier in relation to Techs and Biotics.

To be honest, this is one the more absurd arguments I've heard on these forums. To ignore the fact that the soldier is the only class in the game that combines a power that handles any defence, access to all the best weapons *and* has a class power that is *always* useful against any opponent, and to claim that it's ignored on the basis of the number of tech and biotic upgrades.... it's just utter nonsense.

Seriously man, find something else to complain about. Next you'll be telling us that star trek actors are getting ignored in favour of battlestar galactica ones.

 You know, you can go the doctor and that thing removed from your ass. They are trained not to laugh at you.

[JaegerBane]

jaff00 wrote...
About soldiers spamming concussive shot instead of popping AR - Like I mentioned elsewhere, if you want to insist on using a fork to munch your soup that's your business but you really shouldn't surprised when someone feels compelled to point out you're being a ******.

jaff, likening using concussive blast to eating soup with a fork just illustrates that you're being narrow-minded. It's a power intended for completely different situations to AR. True, AR is an altogether stronger ability... but it's not a crowd control ability. It helps, but it's not set up as one.

Using AR for crowd control is a lot closer to eating soup with a fork.

[JaegerBane]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
 You know, you can go the doctor and that thing removed from your ass. They are trained not to laugh at you.

Lovely, another internet tough guy who thinks hurling insults makes them sound clever.

If you've got an argument to lay down, do so. If you've got nothing but insults, then STFU. The Gametrailers forums are >that----> way.

[SpiderFan1217]

JaegerBane wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
 You know, you can go the doctor and that thing removed from your ass. They are trained not to laugh at you.

Lovely, another internet tough guy who thinks hurling insults makes them sound clever.

If you've got an argument to lay down, do so. If you've got nothing but insults, then STFU. The Gametrailers forums are >that----> way.

Says the guy "hurling insults" at people. My argument is already posted. I feel they toned down the soilder classes power because it made ME1 so easy.

[SpiderFan1217]

[quote]JaegerBane wrote...

[quote]jaff00 wrote...
About soldiers spamming concussive shot instead of popping AR - Like I mentioned elsewhere, if you want to insist on using a fork to munch your soup that's your business but you really shouldn't surprised when someone feels compelled to point out you're being a ******.

[/quote]

jaff, likening using concussive blast to eating soup with a fork just illustrates that you're being narrow-minded. It's a power intended for completely different situations to AR. True, AR is an altogether stronger ability... but it's not a crowd control ability. It helps, but it's not set up as one.

Using AR for crowd control is a lot closer to eating soup with a fork.[/quote]

Not a fan of AR or concussive shot. I just max out Incidiary and disturpter ammo. Cimbine this with advance training in assult rifles AND SHEPARD IS A BEAST.



[/quote]

[Kid_SixXx]

jaff00 wrote...

About soldiers spamming concussive shot instead of popping AR - Like I mentioned elsewhere, if you want to insist on using a fork to munch your soup that's your business but you really shouldn't surprised when someone feels compelled to point out you're being a ******.

I assume that this ****** calling works both ways, correct?  Usually If I have nothing constructive to say in a respectable manner, I just shut the hell up.  If only others would take that philsophy.

As for your argument, AR is handy for crowd control at the expense of ammo while spamming CS doen't use ammo, so AR isn't really built with CC in mind, IMO.

I suppose this is where the "thermal clips are plentiful" stuff starts which is valid given that soldiers carry more than one weapon and the Eviserator is a big equalizer since it gives you yet another firearm with respectable range.

Again, CS is pretty useless in higher difficulty settings since poking your head out of cover when under heavy fire usually means getting your head blown off and using CS means you have to pop up in order to get your ordinance on the fly. 

Better to use AR to give yourself  a chance  to set up shots while spamming your squaddie's powers.

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

6 whole points! not like you can't get them from the start of the game by importing a lvl 60 char from me1

This assumes that you have a lvi 60 char to import and invested that much time in ME1.  Doesn't really speak to folks that haven't played ME1 or didn't bother to grind out 60 lvls in their ME1 playthroughs.

I personally wouldn't burn all of my skill points on one skill during inception, but I'm not going to invalidate that route if that is someone's style of gameplay.  Whatever turns out to be fun is the right thing to do.

Modifié par Kid_SixXx, 07 mai 2010 - 02:58 .

[JaegerBane]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Says the guy "hurling insults" at people. My argument is already posted. I feel they toned down the soilder classes power because it made ME1 so easy.

The only insults I've made in this thread have been at you, thanks to your flame. If you read what I actually posted, I did not insult the guy. I do think his argument is nonsense, for the reasons I stated, but nothing I said there was personal.

Unlike your post. If your intention was not to flame I suggest you exercise a bit more thought when posting.

[SpiderFan1217]

JaegerBane wrote...

*snip*

To be honest, this is one the more absurd arguments I've heard on these forums. To ignore the fact that the soldier is the only class in the game that combines a power that handles any defence, access to all the best weapons *and* has a class power that is *always* useful against any opponent, and to claim that it's ignored on the basis of the number of tech and biotic upgrades.... it's just utter nonsense.

Seriously man, find something else to complain about. Next you'll be telling us that star trek actors are getting ignored in favour of battlestar galactica ones.

This whole post is pretty much an insult to all of us. And yes, I meant to light you on fire.

[SpiderFan1217]

JaegerBane wrote...


The only insults I've made in this thread have been at you, thanks to your flame. If you read what I actually posted, I did not insult the guy. I do think his argument is nonsense, for the reasons I stated, but nothing I said there was personal.

Unlike your post. If your intention was not to flame I suggest you exercise a bit more thought when posting.

All I'm saying is that there is no need to be so hostile when posting. People get the wrong idea. Consider taking your own advice.

EDIT: Typo.

Modifié par SpiderFan1217, 07 mai 2010 - 02:54 .

[JaegerBane]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
This whole post is pretty much an insult to all of us. And yes, I meant to light you on fire.

Then take your holier-than-thou attitude to someone who cares. I'm not interested in flame fights here, if that's what you're after I suggest you go somewhere else. If you choose to take offence at a post not directed at you than that is your issue, not mine.

[SpiderFan1217]

Kid_SixXx wrote...

jaff00 wrote...

About soldiers spamming concussive shot instead of popping AR - Like I mentioned elsewhere, if you want to insist on using a fork to munch your soup that's your business but you really shouldn't surprised when someone feels compelled to point out you're being a ******.

I assume that this ****** calling works both ways, correct?  Usually If I have nothing constructive to say in a respectable manner, I just shut the hell up.  If only others would take that philsophy.

As for your argument, AR is handy for crowd control at the expense of ammo while spamming CS doen't use ammo, so AR isn't really built with CC in mind, IMO.

I suppose this is where the "thermal clips are plentiful" stuff starts.

Again, CS is pretty useless in higher difficulty settings since poking your head out of cover when under heavy fire usually means getting your head blown off and using CS means you have to pop up in order to get your ordinance on the fly.  Better to use AR to give yourself change to set up shots while spamming your squaddie's powers.

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

6 whole points! not like you can't get them from the start of the game by importing a lvl 60 char from me1

This assumes that you have a lvi 60 char to import and invested that much time in ME1.  Doesn't really speak to folks that haven't played ME1 or didn't bother to grind out 60 lvls in their ME1 playthroughs.

I personally wouldn't burn all of my skill points on one skill during inception, but I'm not going to invalidate that route if that is someone's style of gameplay.  Whatever turns out to be fun is the right thing to do.

I spend all of my points becoming a shock trooper first.

[SpiderFan1217]

JaegerBane wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
This whole post is pretty much an insult to all of us. And yes, I meant to light you on fire.

Then take your holier-than-thou attitude to someone who cares. I'm not interested in flame fights here, if that's what you're after I suggest you go somewhere else. If you choose to take offence at a post not directed at you than that is your issue, not mine.

Where did you get holier-than-thou? And for someone who isn't interested in flame fights you fighting pretty hard.

[Kid_SixXx]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

I spend all of my points becoming a shock trooper first.

And as I said before, there is nothing wrong with that even though it might not be my first choice.  I spent points on AR and Disruptor Ammo so I never had too many problems with the first couple of scenarios that are mech heavy.

[swk3000]

For those who missed it, each of the 6 squadmates in Mass Effect corresponded with one of the 6 classes Shepard could chose to be.



Ashley Williams - Soldier all the way. All of her skills are exactly what Shepard would have as a Soldier, with the obvious exception of the Charm, Intimidate, and Spectre Training.



Garrus Vakarian - Garrus is basically an Infiltrator, but some of his skills are out of order compared to an Infiltrator Shepard. For example, an Infiltrator Shepard can immediately put points into Electronics, but Garrus has to put 7 points into First Aid before he can do so. Garrus also uses the Assault Rifle instead of the Pistol.



Kaidan Alenko - Kaiden is a Sentinel. Like Ashley, his Talents are exactly the same as a Sentinel Shepard would have.



Liara T'Soni - Liara is an Adept, but with some differences. First, Liara gets no weapon training, so she can only use the Pistol. Second, Liara gets First Aid and Electronics, so she makes Medigel more effective, and gets Overload.



Tali - Tali is an Engineer. Like Garrus, her skills are out of order compared to an Engineer Shepard, but they're mostly all there, with the exception of an Armor skill. Tali also gets training in the Shotgun and the Pistol, compared to Engineer Shepard's Pistol, so she's able to do more weapon damage when needed.



Urdnot Wrex - Wrex most closely resembles a Vanguard. However, he uses Assault Rifles and Shotguns instead of Pistols and Shotguns. Wrex also gets Stasis instead of Lift.



You can say that Garrus is a Soldier sort of character, but in the first game he was intended to be an Infiltrator, not a Soldier.



Of course, everyone probably already knew this.

[SpiderFan1217]

Kid_SixXx wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

I spend all of my points becoming a shock trooper first.

And as I said before, there is nothing wrong with that even though it might not be my first choice.  I spent points on AR and Disruptor Ammo so I never had too many problems with the first couple of scenarios that are mech heavy.

Makes sense. I don't have much trouble with them though. Miranda and Jacob are very helpful against them. Plus by then I usually have at least two levels of Fortification.

[SpiderFan1217]

swk3000 wrote...

For those who missed it, each of the 6 squadmates in Mass Effect corresponded with one of the 6 classes Shepard could chose to be.

Ashley Williams - Soldier all the way. All of her skills are exactly what Shepard would have as a Soldier, with the obvious exception of the Charm, Intimidate, and Spectre Training.

Garrus Vakarian - Garrus is basically an Infiltrator, but some of his skills are out of order compared to an Infiltrator Shepard. For example, an Infiltrator Shepard can immediately put points into Electronics, but Garrus has to put 7 points into First Aid before he can do so. Garrus also uses the Assault Rifle instead of the Pistol.

Kaidan Alenko - Kaiden is a Sentinel. Like Ashley, his Talents are exactly the same as a Sentinel Shepard would have.

Liara T'Soni - Liara is an Adept, but with some differences. First, Liara gets no weapon training, so she can only use the Pistol. Second, Liara gets First Aid and Electronics, so she makes Medigel more effective, and gets Overload.

Tali - Tali is an Engineer. Like Garrus, her skills are out of order compared to an Engineer Shepard, but they're mostly all there, with the exception of an Armor skill. Tali also gets training in the Shotgun and the Pistol, compared to Engineer Shepard's Pistol, so she's able to do more weapon damage when needed.

Urdnot Wrex - Wrex most closely resembles a Vanguard. However, he uses Assault Rifles and Shotguns instead of Pistols and Shotguns. Wrex also gets Stasis instead of Lift.

You can say that Garrus is a Soldier sort of character, but in the first game he was intended to be an Infiltrator, not a Soldier.

Of course, everyone probably already knew this.

Kind of random, but thanks for the reminder.

[JaegerBane]

swk3000 wrote...
You can say that Garrus is a Soldier sort of character, but in the first game he was intended to be an Infiltrator, not a Soldier.

Of course, everyone probably already knew this.

To be fair, the class concepts in ME1 were very different to what they are in ME2. They were all based on whether they were tech, biotic or combat, or a combination, while classes in ME2 are more focused on different playstyles (i.e. the Vanguard isn't a combat biotic anymore, rather a teleporting berzerker, while the Sentinel isn't a walking toolbox anymore, rather a tank).

Hence I'm not sure what point there is in trying to classifiy the team mates in ME2 into soldiers and non-soldiers. I mean, what class would Thane be? Or Jacob? Their weapon and power sets come from different classes.

[SpiderFan1217]

JaegerBane wrote...

swk3000 wrote...
You can say that Garrus is a Soldier sort of character, but in the first game he was intended to be an Infiltrator, not a Soldier.

Of course, everyone probably already knew this.

To be fair, the class concepts in ME1 were very different to what they are in ME2. They were all based on whether they were tech, biotic or combat, or a combination, while classes in ME2 are more focused on different playstyles (i.e. the Vanguard isn't a combat biotic anymore, rather a teleporting berzerker, while the Sentinel isn't a walking toolbox anymore, rather a tank).

Hence I'm not sure what point there is in trying to classifiy the team mates in ME2 into soldiers and non-soldiers. I mean, what class would Thane be? Or Jacob? Their weapon and power sets come from different classes.

Sentinel is a tank? (Serious guestion. I don't play one.)

[swk3000]

Fair enough, Jaeger. I was mainly addressing the idea that Garrus is a Soldier, at least as far as Mass Effect goes. Things do get very muddy in Mass Effect 2, but Garrus, at least, remains mostly the same as he was in the first one, class-wise.

[JaegerBane]

swk3000 wrote...

Fair enough, Jaeger. I was mainly addressing the idea that Garrus is a Soldier, at least as far as Mass Effect goes. Things do get very muddy in Mass Effect 2, but Garrus, at least, remains mostly the same as he was in the first one, class-wise.

Oh, I agree, it just that the actual Soldier isn't the same class it was in ME1, so I've no idea what Garrus would count as.