112 réponses à ce sujet

[SmokeyNinjas]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Sentinel is a tank? (Serious guestion. I don't play one.)

If you get Assault Armor it is:devil:

[cruc1al]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

swk3000 wrote...
You can say that Garrus is a Soldier sort of character, but in the first game he was intended to be an Infiltrator, not a Soldier.

Of course, everyone probably already knew this.

To be fair, the class concepts in ME1 were very different to what they are in ME2. They were all based on whether they were tech, biotic or combat, or a combination, while classes in ME2 are more focused on different playstyles (i.e. the Vanguard isn't a combat biotic anymore, rather a teleporting berzerker, while the Sentinel isn't a walking toolbox anymore, rather a tank).

Hence I'm not sure what point there is in trying to classifiy the team mates in ME2 into soldiers and non-soldiers. I mean, what class would Thane be? Or Jacob? Their weapon and power sets come from different classes.

Sentinel is a tank? (Serious guestion. I don't play one.)

Yep. Sentinels are better protected than any other class. They don't have nearly as much health as soldiers, but their shields amount to +100% of base value with a fully evolved tech armor. Combine that with geth shield boost or similar, and you've got almost a thousand shields.

[Kid_SixXx]

JaegerBane wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

Fair enough, Jaeger. I was mainly addressing the idea that Garrus is a Soldier, at least as far as Mass Effect goes. Things do get very muddy in Mass Effect 2, but Garrus, at least, remains mostly the same as he was in the first one, class-wise.

Oh, I agree, it just that the actual Soldier isn't the same class it was in ME1, so I've no idea what Garrus would count as.

True, enough.  Garrus doesn't have the tech or ammo powers that would easily define him as an Infiltrator or a Soldier.  I suppose we all fixate on his preference for sniper rifles in the ME2 cutscenes as well as his AI combat routine in the Archangel missions and point to his skill references in the previous game to define what we think Garrus is now.

Even so, his abilities in ME1 didn't really reflect a pure Infiltrator build but they were close enough to make an assumption.  I suppose the best thing to do is classify him by his "class" training and just say he is a Turian Agent  (ME1) or a  Turian Rebel / Turian Renegade (ME2).

[SpiderFan1217]

cruc1al wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

swk3000 wrote...
You can say that Garrus is a Soldier sort of character, but in the first game he was intended to be an Infiltrator, not a Soldier.

Of course, everyone probably already knew this.

To be fair, the class concepts in ME1 were very different to what they are in ME2. They were all based on whether they were tech, biotic or combat, or a combination, while classes in ME2 are more focused on different playstyles (i.e. the Vanguard isn't a combat biotic anymore, rather a teleporting berzerker, while the Sentinel isn't a walking toolbox anymore, rather a tank).

Hence I'm not sure what point there is in trying to classifiy the team mates in ME2 into soldiers and non-soldiers. I mean, what class would Thane be? Or Jacob? Their weapon and power sets come from different classes.

Sentinel is a tank? (Serious guestion. I don't play one.)

Yep. Sentinels are better protected than any other class. They don't have nearly as much health as soldiers, but their shields amount to +100% of base value with a fully evolved tech armor. Combine that with geth shield boost or similar, and you've got almost a thousand shields.

Yes, but can they slow down time?

[cruc1al]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

swk3000 wrote...
You can say that Garrus is a Soldier sort of character, but in the first game he was intended to be an Infiltrator, not a Soldier.

Of course, everyone probably already knew this.

To be fair, the class concepts in ME1 were very different to what they are in ME2. They were all based on whether they were tech, biotic or combat, or a combination, while classes in ME2 are more focused on different playstyles (i.e. the Vanguard isn't a combat biotic anymore, rather a teleporting berzerker, while the Sentinel isn't a walking toolbox anymore, rather a tank).

Hence I'm not sure what point there is in trying to classifiy the team mates in ME2 into soldiers and non-soldiers. I mean, what class would Thane be? Or Jacob? Their weapon and power sets come from different classes.

Sentinel is a tank? (Serious guestion. I don't play one.)

Yep. Sentinels are better protected than any other class. They don't have nearly as much health as soldiers, but their shields amount to +100% of base value with a fully evolved tech armor. Combine that with geth shield boost or similar, and you've got almost a thousand shields.

Yes, but can they slow down time?

What are you talking about? First, you know they can't, second, not being able to slow down time doesn't mean they're not a tank. Tank means they can take a beating.

[incinerator950]

Soldier is still one of the upper tier classes.

[Solmanian]

oh please, my favourite class is soldier... most of the upgrades are weapons, armor&shields, and without some of them (AR accuraccy anyone?) you'll be in serius disadvantage. and only 1 soldier squady? i assume grunt is an infiltrator?

[jaff00]

CC? We're talking about ME2 here? When the fudge do you ever need CC?

[thepiebaker]

jaff00 wrote...

thepiebaker wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Adrenaline rush is a humungous damage bonus. Soldier has more weapons.
Seriously, you should never be running out of ammo with soldier.

it happens to me, i dont use adrenaline rush because i dont feel myself performing better when it's active and i'd rather be using my concussive shot

Are you for real?
A skill that's essentially useless on anything with armor/shields/barrier (by the by, that's -everything- on insanity) or a spammable bullet-time that slows everything except you down by 70% and gives a 140% damage bonus.
I can only conclude that this thread is the intellectual center of the universe.

simple, i just shoot at them until they're down to their base health then concussive shot in the face, reload (for me it only takes one clip), next person.

i also dont have to worry much with both my allies using snipers thus with their infinite ammo doing heavy damage.

my problem with adrenaline rush is it slows down your rate of fire. most of the time i'm hiding behind cover so it doesn't matter how fast i run. and lets just say not having the damage reduction gives more of a challenge and thrill

and just so you guys know i did my first two playthroughs on normal soldier, 3rd was insanity adept, then the last one is hardcore soldier. my next one will be an insanity soldier

Modifié par thepiebaker, 07 mai 2010 - 10:18 .

[Tilarta]

I see I should have clarified what I consider to be a soldier.

Basically, these are the criteria which pass a character as a soldier:
High health.
A resistance or shielding power (Fortification or Immunity).
Assault Rifle.
Heavy Armor (I'm uncertain if this still applies in ME2).

My Shepherd has 475 health and 375 Shields.

Grunt has 600 health and 300 Armor, in addition to having Heavy Fortification.

Legion is a case of almost, but not quite. I'm using him to substitute for the lack of a real soldier.
Legion has 240 Health and 350 shields and can use Heavy Geth Shielding.

The next highest is Garrus with 270 health, but only 250 shields.

This is why I don't count Zaeed, he has no shielding power.

And I didn't add that DLC anyway, so it's a moot point.

There were actually 2 soldiers in ME1, Ashley and Wrex.

Unfortunately, my skill points got tapped out at level 30, so I couldn't use Concussive Shot.
And even if I tried to spec it, I wouldn't have enough points to "evolve" it.

And the next person to bring up ammo better duck, because I'll be pulling out my Widow and lining up a headshot.

When I realized my ammo was getting diminished, I started to pay attention to where it was going.

This is what happens (based on a Collector attack):
You kill X amount of Collectors and one Harbinger. Ammo galore.
Next wave kills you.
Respawn, oops, the ammo is gone.

I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but definitely annoying, considering my guns are usually running close to empty at that point.

To contrast, a Biotic and Tech can throw attacks as much as they like, when a Soldier is out of ammo, it's game over or hide behind your squadmates until you can restock supplies.

And it doesn't even fit the tech of the guns.
These things have around 4000 bullets (well, technically, it's a metal brick inserted somewhere inside the gun).

Heavy Weapons run off a power plant.

So why are they using up ammo?

[Motion Blue]

Arawn-Loki wrote...

Soldiers are a reach-out for 40-year old Halo-ers and Gears of War-ers who have Xbox 360s and like playing first-person shooters. Aka, for people who dislike or don't understand the RPG aspects of Mass Effect (like Upgrades). They are a shooting-specific class, which shoots ... a lot.

I think the main assumption is that many --> most Soldier players don't want to bother with powers or upgrades.

In essence, they are a trap to trick our dads into thinking Mass Effect plays like Halo.

To be fair, gun upgrades are a bigger help to Soldiers than other classes because they have more/better guns.

You should win an award for the most ignorant, flame inciting post.

[OniGanon]

classes are defined by their abilities. Their health and defenses are influenced by their race. Zaeed has no tech or biotic abilities, and has an ammo power and Concussive Shot. He's pretty clearly a Soldier. Wrex is a Vanguard.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Motion Blue wrote...

Arawn-Loki wrote...

Soldiers are a reach-out for 40-year old Halo-ers and Gears of War-ers who have Xbox 360s and like playing first-person shooters. Aka, for people who dislike or don't understand the RPG aspects of Mass Effect (like Upgrades). They are a shooting-specific class, which shoots ... a lot.

I think the main assumption is that many --> most Soldier players don't want to bother with powers or upgrades.

In essence, they are a trap to trick our dads into thinking Mass Effect plays like Halo.

To be fair, gun upgrades are a bigger help to Soldiers than other classes because they have more/better guns.

You should win an award for the most ignorant, flame inciting post.

Lol yeah

[JaegerBane]

jaff00 wrote...

CC? We're talking about ME2 here? When the fudge do you ever need CC?

jaff, I'm not interested in your own arbitrary decisions as to what you think is and isn't needed. CC is a concept in the game whether you choose to like it or not. If you generally don't play in such a fashion where you control crowds, or you max out cryo ammo, I can understand why you wouldn't see much use in Concussive Blast, but the type of situation exists regardless.

[DKJaigen]

[/quote]

What are you talking about? First, you know they can't, second, not being able to slow down time doesn't mean they're not a tank. Tank means they can take a beating.

[/quote]

tanks also means that you can mitigate damage. if your enemy slows down by 70% every time you use AR then they also do 70% less damage

[cruc1al]

DKJaigen wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

What are you talking about? First, you know they can't, second, not being able to slow down time doesn't mean they're not a tank. Tank means they can take a beating.

tanks also means that you can mitigate damage. if your enemy slows down by 70% every time you use AR then they also do 70% less damage

Sorry, will have to disagree with you there

Modifié par cruc1al, 08 mai 2010 - 12:25 .

[jaff00]

JaegerBane wrote...

jaff00 wrote...

CC? We're talking about ME2 here? When the fudge do you ever need CC?

jaff, I'm not interested in your own arbitrary decisions as to what you think is and isn't needed. CC is a concept in the game whether you choose to like it or not. If you generally don't play in such a fashion where you control crowds, or you max out cryo ammo, I can understand why you wouldn't see much use in Concussive Blast, but the type of situation exists regardless.

'Arbitrary', rofl. I'm just curious where the need to CC arises as a soldier in a game where the vast majority of the gunfodder patiently sits behind cover waiting for the PC to make their red bars go down. Well, save for the occasional krogan, varren, husk gank or irritating geth hunter. The only use I've found for concussive shot is knocking someone/thing off a ledge resulting in a slightly quicker kill than simply gunning him/her/it down with AR on.

[SmokeyNinjas]

cruc1al wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

What are you talking about? First, you know they can't, second, not being able to slow down time doesn't mean they're not a tank. Tank means they can take a beating.

tanks also means that you can mitigate damage. if your enemy slows down by 70% every time you use AR then they also do 70% less damage

Sorry, will have to disagree with you there

I also disagree a Tank is a heavily armored combat vehicle that can take a beating.
Reducing the amount of fire you take is not the samething:?

[swk3000]

I have to disagree, Smokie. A Tank doesn't neccessarily need to be able to take a beating; all he actually needs to do is survive. In ME2, this means having more health, so that helps, but being able to keep from dying is much more important than having high health. I'd take a Tank with horrible health any day of the week if he could dodge every attack aimed at him. Sentinels are great in this regard because when Shields are gone, they get an AoE stun that allows them to either reactivate Tech Armor, or get to cover until their powers are done cooling down. Once they activate Tech Armor, they get full shields and can turn around and keep going.



Frankly, I'd say Tech Armor is the ultimate Tank skill, at least in this game.

[SmokeyNinjas]

swk3000 wrote...

I have to disagree, Smokie. A Tank doesn't neccessarily need to be able to take a beating; all he actually needs to do is survive.

Ok no problem if you can show me in any dictionary where it says that a tank is something made to reduce the amount of fire it takes

[cruc1al]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

swk3000 wrote...

I have to disagree, Smokie. A Tank doesn't neccessarily need to be able to take a beating; all he actually needs to do is survive.

Ok no problem if you can show me in any dictionary where it says that a tank is something made to reduce the amount of fire it takes

Tank is a term that is useful precisely because it differentiates between survivability that involves taking a beating and survivability that doesn't. A big man with layers of body armor is a tank, but a small, slim guy with rapid reflexes is not.

[swk3000]

Oh. I see your point. I was simply looking at survivability; I wasn't differentiating how it was done. I see where you're coming from.

[JaegerBane]

jaff00 wrote...
'Arbitrary', rofl. I'm just curious where the need to CC arises as a soldier in a game where the vast majority of the gunfodder patiently sits behind cover waiting for the PC to make their red bars go down. Well, save for the occasional krogan, varren, husk gank or irritating geth hunter. The only use I've found for concussive shot is knocking someone/thing off a ledge resulting in a slightly quicker kill than simply gunning him/her/it down with AR on.

As I said, it is irrelevant if you think there are no situations in the game where CC is needed. The fact that they're displayed for all to see on youtube indicates the value of such an opinion, but nevertheless, the discussion here is regarding the skill itself, not your own crowing about how you don't need it.

[Omicrone]

None of you guys play MMOs? Tanks, especially when it comes to character classes, are the ones that can draw aggro and/or survive huge amounts of damage. They normally don't dish out as much damage as the DDs (Damage dealers). They can either have skills that reduce the damage that is done to them (example: Lineage 2 Paladins who have shields) or they can have huge amounts of HP that lets them survive longer. Key word is survivability. How they do it doesn't really matter. In Dragon Age a DEX-specced Rogue is considered a tank compared to the much more fragile spellcaster (excluding Arcane warrior). There are no pure tanks in Mass Effect 2, because different abilities let you survive longer in different ways. Any class that has barrier/fortification/GSB can be a tank. but same applies for Reave/adrenaline rush/charge.



Back to the topic, soldier is one of the most versatile classes and is definitely not "neglected". Superior weapon arsenal, highest HP of any class in the game and adrenaline rush make the soldier a killing machine if used correctly.

[Mycrus Ironfist]

soldiers ain't under represented... soldier male shepard is canon that is why.. game assumes that a fair bit of players will play as soldiers so tailors the NPCs under that assumption