98 réponses à ce sujet

[implodinggoat]

OniGanon wrote...

You've somewhat missed the point of Neural Shock. Neural Shock has the following key features:

1. Long stun time. Really really long. 5 second stun at rank 1. That's ridiculous.
2. Godly cooldown. 3 second cooldown on a 5 second stun. That's a permastun at rank 1.

It's a bit redundant for anyone with Throw, Pull or Cryo Blast. But that leaves two classes where it's a very effective power (Soldier and Infiltrator). Even more so because it tends to leave enemies open to easy headshots. Unlike most alternatives, it requires only one point and barely interferes at all with your use of Adrenaline Rush (or Cloak).

Both of those classes have Sniper Rifles.  So you can spend your time stunning the enemy for 5 seconds (once you've got their defenses down), or you can fire up Adrenaline Rush or tactical cloak and blow their head off with one shot.  Sorry, it still doesn't seem very useful to me.  The fact that even on insanity there isn't a single organic enemy in the game that can survive a single sniper rifle headshot from a Soldier or an Infiltrator once they're down to health, makes any talent which only works once an enemies protection is down (and only if their organic), quite useless. 

Aside from that both Soldiers and Infiltrators have access to Cryo Ammo so with a single point in Cryo Ammo I could have an ability with the a 1.5 second cool down which I can activate before I enter combat that will turn my pistol into a weapon capable of freezing an unprotected organic or synthetic enemy with one shot then moving on to freeze another enemy and another and another, or I could take neural shock which I can only use every 3 seconds, which prevents me from using Adrenaline Rush or tactical cloak and which only works on organic enemies.  Again quite useless.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 08 mai 2010 - 06:17 .

[implodinggoat]

MrNose wrote...

Heightened Adrenaline Rush allows you to take out three of the Human Reaper's tanks in one go. Not that taking out these tanks is a big deal, but it just really shows how freaking fast Shepard is with that thing in play.

I got all 4 once with my Vindicator.  I was aiming right at the far left one as soon as its shield retracted got the first three while Adrenaline Rush was active and just barely managed to hit the one on the far right outside Adrenaline Rush right before its shield came down.

[OniGanon]

implodinggoat wrote...
Both of those classes have Sniper Rifles.  So you can spend your time stunning the enemy for 5 seconds (once you've got their defenses down), or you can fire up Adrenaline Rush or tactical cloak and blow their head off with one shot.  Sorry, it still doesn't seem very useful to me.  The fact that even on insanity there isn't a single organic enemy in the game that can survive a single sniper rifle headshot from a Soldier or an Infiltrator once they're down to health, makes any talent which only works once an enemies protection is down (and only if their organic), quite useless. 

Aside from that both Soldiers and Infiltrators have access to Cryo Ammo so with a single point in Cryo Ammo I could have an ability with the a 1.5 second cool down which I can activate before I enter combat that will turn my pistol into a weapon capable of freezing an unprotected organic or synthetic enemy with one shot then moving on to freeze another enemy and another and another, or I could take neural shock which I can only use every 3 seconds, which prevents me from using Adrenaline Rush or tactical cloak and which only works on organic enemies.  Again quite useless.

Having Sniper Rifles doesn't make crowd control useless. You don't always have SR equipped. Switching to SR takes time. Easier to snipe an enemy forced into upright position. Not everyone uses the Widow. Prefer not to use a Widow bullet on an enemy down to health anyway- wasteful.

The game seems to react to enemy deaths. When an enemy dies, other enemies take their position, new enemies spawn to take their place. Often it's best to let an enemy live, disabled, while you reposition (preferably right next to their spasming soon-to-be carcass) and/or focus on another enemy. Kill each enemy in turn, and you get more enemies. Have every enemy disabled, you've already won the battle and can finish it at your leisure.

It's easy, from pause, to come out of cover Shocking one target while already aiming at another enemy on the other side of the screen, ready to strip their defenses or freeze them with Cryo. Doing this with a gun is not so easy, especially if that gun is a Sniper Rifle.

You don't always want Cryo on your current gun. Switching guns is not always desirable. Switching to Cryo takes time. Switching to pistol takes time. Cryo takes time to freeze. Neural Shock is instant. It also lasts longer per point, and doesn't miss.

Modifié par OniGanon, 08 mai 2010 - 08:23 .

[cruc1al]

AFAIK the upright position that neural shock causes only lasts for a couple of seconds and I don't think it scales with the duration increase as you upgrade it. If you're going to switch to a sniper after using neural shock, I doubt you'll have much time to hit the target.

[smecky-kitteh]

i think it's over powered if you got shooting skillz.

[Aradace]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Okay so having played ME2 a few times, I'm not finding it to be particularly useful. Okay it slows down time...great...except that every time I use it I can't get a shot anyway.

Now Immunity from ME1 on the other hand - very useful. Plus it doesn't break the flow of the game.

Thoughts?

I find it very useful with any AR except the Vindicator....GPR and Avenger work very nicely with AR and on normal (I only play on Insanity with my Engineer now lol) I can drop anywhere from 3-4 Targets before my "rush" is over if they are unshielded.  Now on anything above normal, yea, I can say that I agree with you that it's pretty worthless unless you take the version of it where you take 50% less damage while in rush mode.  To which, can be VERY useful on Insanity when you are going from cover to cover and need to take as little damage as possible getting there.

[cruc1al]

Aradace wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Okay so having played ME2 a few times, I'm not finding it to be particularly useful. Okay it slows down time...great...except that every time I use it I can't get a shot anyway.

Now Immunity from ME1 on the other hand - very useful. Plus it doesn't break the flow of the game.

Thoughts?

I find it very useful with any AR except the Vindicator....GPR and Avenger work very nicely with AR and on normal (I only play on Insanity with my Engineer now lol) I can drop anywhere from 3-4 Targets before my "rush" is over if they are unshielded.  Now on anything above normal, yea, I can say that I agree with you that it's pretty worthless unless you take the version of it where you take 50% less damage while in rush mode.  To which, can be VERY useful on Insanity when you are going from cover to cover and need to take as little damage as possible getting there.

How is AR useless on insanity? Even 1 point in it doubles your damage per second, so where you normally could only take down the shields of one enemy before your shields go down, with AR you can kill that enemy. On insanity that is more important than on any other difficulty. On normal, you don't even need to allocate points or buy upgrades and the whole game is a breeze.

Modifié par cruc1al, 08 mai 2010 - 08:52 .

[OniGanon]

cruc1al wrote...
If you're going to switch to a sniper after using neural shock, I doubt you'll have much time to hit the target.

It lasts roughly 3 seconds. If you want to use it with the SR you need to have it out already, yeah.

[implodinggoat]

Aradace wrote...

I find it very useful with any AR except the Vindicator....GPR and Avenger work very nicely with AR and on normal (I only play on Insanity with my Engineer now lol) I can drop anywhere from 3-4 Targets before my "rush" is over if they are unshielded.  Now on anything above normal, yea, I can say that I agree with you that it's pretty worthless unless you take the version of it where you take 50% less damage while in rush mode.  To which, can be VERY useful on Insanity when you are going from cover to cover and need to take as little damage as possible getting there.

Seriously?  In my opinion the Vindicator benefits more from Adrenaline Rush than any other gun in the game.  With a Vindicator in my hands, the +140% weapon damage bonus from heightened Adrenaline Rush and the slowdown effect, I can lay down headshots all day with that sucker.  Granted, I can only take down 2-3 targets before my "rush" is over; but those are 2-3 insanity level targets.

Its wierd that there is no mention in the game itself that Adrenaline Rush gives you a +100% or +140% weapon damage bonus; because its the damage bonus, not the slowdown which makes Adrenaline Rush so damned powerful.

[Athenau]

Granted, I can only take down 2-3 targets before my "rush" is over; but those are 2-3 insanity level targets.

How? With Heightened you get 2 Vindi bursts per rush, and it takes two bursts to the head to drop a grunt enemy on Insanity.

That said, yeah, the Vindicator really benefits from AR because missing is painful. But AR is awesome with any gun, anywhere, and at any time. Hell, you could go through the game elbowing people to death and AR would still be awesome (hmm, time to try it out!).

Fun fact, your melee speed stay the same in AR, so with hardened you're meleeing 2x as fast relative to the game world and with heightened you're meleeing 3.33x as fast. Go go epic elbows!

Modifié par Athenau, 09 mai 2010 - 12:26 .

[Aradace]

implodinggoat wrote...

Aradace wrote...

I find it very useful with any AR except the Vindicator....GPR and Avenger work very nicely with AR and on normal (I only play on Insanity with my Engineer now lol) I can drop anywhere from 3-4 Targets before my "rush" is over if they are unshielded.  Now on anything above normal, yea, I can say that I agree with you that it's pretty worthless unless you take the version of it where you take 50% less damage while in rush mode.  To which, can be VERY useful on Insanity when you are going from cover to cover and need to take as little damage as possible getting there.

Seriously?  In my opinion the Vindicator benefits more from Adrenaline Rush than any other gun in the game.  With a Vindicator in my hands, the +140% weapon damage bonus from heightened Adrenaline Rush and the slowdown effect, I can lay down headshots all day with that sucker.  Granted, I can only take down 2-3 targets before my "rush" is over; but those are 2-3 insanity level targets.

Its wierd that there is no mention in the game itself that Adrenaline Rush gives you a +100% or +140% weapon damage bonus; because its the damage bonus, not the slowdown which makes Adrenaline Rush so damned powerful.

Because I suck with the Vindicator lol...On the 360 version, it constantly tries to "auto aim" for me which totally F's up my targeting so I opt for the full auto ARs instead of the burst.

[Tlazolteotl]

Ah yes, "auto aim."

[Aradace]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Ah yes, "auto aim."

*with Turian councilor finger quotes* The mythical function put into the game that supposedly helps you aim quicker and with better accuracy....We have dismissed this claim.

[Tlazolteotl]

There really should be an option to turn it off. I mean leave it on as default, but yeah.

[Aradace]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

There really should be an option to turn it off. I mean leave it on as default, but yeah.

What's really annoying is the rare instances where it kicks in when Im on my Infiltrator and Im trying to line up a head shot...Doesnt happen very often (maybe once out of every playthrough at most sometimes  not even that much lol) but it sucks because you come to find out very quickly that head shot you were lining up on that LOKI mech ends up being a groin shot on that Batarian 2 mobs behind it lol.

[implodinggoat]

Athenau wrote...

Granted, I can only take down 2-3 targets before my "rush" is over; but those are 2-3 insanity level targets.

How? With Heightened you get 2 Vindi bursts per rush, and it takes two bursts to the head to drop a grunt enemy on Insanity.

Once you get the hang of pulsing the trigger in sync with the start of your Adrenaline Rush (pulling the trigger a fraction of a second after you activate Adrenaline Rush) you can get  4 Vindicator bursts off if you rigged your soldier for max damage per shot by choosing Commando and Heightened Adrenaline Rush or 6 bursts off if you choose to maximize the duration of Adrenaline Rush by going with Shocktrooper and Hardened Adrenaline Rush.  4 headshots from a Commando using Heightened Adrenaline Rush will reliably take down two normal enemies with full protection and three or on rare occasions four normal enemies if you've softened them up first.   Alternatively a Shocktrooper using Hardened Adrenaline Rush can take down 3 fully protected normal enemies with 6 headshots provided you can rapidly switch from one target to the next or up to 5 softened enemies.

[cruc1al]

implodinggoat wrote...

Athenau wrote...

Granted, I can only take down 2-3 targets before my "rush" is over; but those are 2-3 insanity level targets.

How? With Heightened you get 2 Vindi bursts per rush, and it takes two bursts to the head to drop a grunt enemy on Insanity.

Once you get the hang of pulsing the trigger in sync with the start of your Adrenaline Rush (pulling the trigger a fraction of a second after you activate Adrenaline Rush) you can get  4 Vindicator bursts off if you rigged your soldier for max damage per shot by choosing Commando and Heightened Adrenaline Rush or 6 bursts off if you choose to maximize the duration of Adrenaline Rush by going with Shocktrooper and Hardened Adrenaline Rush.  4 headshots from a Commando using Heightened Adrenaline Rush will reliably take down two normal enemies with full protection and three or on rare occasions four normal enemies if you've softened them up first.   Alternatively a Shocktrooper using Hardened Adrenaline Rush can take down 3 fully protected normal enemies with 6 headshots provided you can rapidly switch from one target to the next or up to 5 softened enemies.

Doesn't work for me. I tried that just now, and I can get only 2 bursts with commando + heightened, 4 (almost 5) bursts with shock trooper + hardened.

Modifié par cruc1al, 09 mai 2010 - 01:15 .

[implodinggoat]

Aradace wrote...

Because I suck with the Vindicator lol...On the 360 version, it constantly tries to "auto aim" for me which totally F's up my targeting so I opt for the full auto ARs instead of the burst.

Not judging man, I clearly have an unnatural hard on for the Vindicator, so I've gotten to be a damned surgeon with the thing; but it definitely takes time to get into the groove with it.  I just finished an Infiltrator campaign where I rolled with the Widow and the Locust and when I went back to my Commando, I felt very rusty and it took me quite a while to get back to the point where I could reliably drop two enemies before my Adrenaline Rush wore off.

[implodinggoat]

cruc1al wrote...

Doesn't work for me. I tried that just now, and I can get only 2 bursts with commando + heightened, 4 (almost 5) bursts with shock trooper + hardened.

It takes a long time to get the feel of the gun down well enough to pull it off and to be frank I would be hard pressed to do it at the moment.   As I said I haven't been rolling with my Commando much lately so I still haven't gotten back to the point where I can get 4 bursts off using heightened, more often I get off 3 and line up the fourth which then takes the enemies head off after Adrenaline Rush wears off.   Furthermore I'd be very hard pressed to pull off 4 using heightened and then turn around and pull of 6 using hardened since the more extreme time dilation of heighetend adrenaline rush profoundly alters the feel of the weapon so getting yourself into the groove with heightened will screw up your timing when you use hardened and vice versa.

In any case the distance between your first and second target plays a major role.  Taking out a guy on your far right then taking out another on your far left using Heightened Adrenaline Rush simply isn't in the cards no matter how in the groove you may be.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 09 mai 2010 - 01:28 .

[Athenau]

Doesn't work for me. I tried that just now, and I can get only 2 bursts with commando + heightened, 4 (almost 5) bursts with shock trooper + hardened.

Yeah, I'm not sure what implodinggoat is talking about, but unless there's some strange glitch I don't see how you could double(!) the Vindi's rate of fire to get 4 bursts per rush.

 It takes a long time to get the feel of the gun down well enough to pull it off and to be frank I would be hard pressed to do it at the moment.

Could you post a vid of you getting 3?  I know I've sometimes seen the Vindicator do two bursts back to back, but that isn't repeatable AFAICT.

Edit:  There's a weird phenomenon where if you start firing at the same time you trigger adrenaline rush, the burst comes out at "normal" speed.  Maybe that would let you squeeze in one more burst, I don't know, but 4 seems out of the question.

Modifié par Athenau, 09 mai 2010 - 01:38 .

[implodinggoat]

Athenau wrote...

Doesn't work for me. I tried that just now, and I can get only 2 bursts with commando + heightened, 4 (almost 5) bursts with shock trooper + hardened.

Yeah, I'm not sure what implodinggoat is talking about, but unless there's some strange glitch I don't see how you could double(!) the Vindi's rate of fire to get 4 bursts per rush.

You guys got me doubting myself so I went to test it out and upon further review, I'm full of ****.  After a great deal of effort I could only get 3 bursts of on insanity using heightened adrenaline rush and I was nowhere close to getting the 4th off.   Feeling confused I checked out my old Commando career and noticed that I was rolling with Hardened Adrenaline Rush and Commando.

With a bit of experimentation, I was able to get myself to reliably down 2 enemies on Insanity very quickly using Heightened AR; but not within a single heightened adrenaline rush.  On insanity one Heightened AR  Vindicator burst to the head (with appropriate ammo power) does well over half the damage you need to kill your average enemy, so I was still able to drop two guys really fast by shooting the first in the head outside Adrenaline Rush, triggering adrenaline rush,  killing the first enemy with my first burst in Adrenaline rush, emptying my second burst in adrenaline rush into the head of my second target and then finisihing him off with either a third burst at the extreme tail end of AR or with a normal burst right after the effect wears off.

Still, I think Commando and Hardened Adrenaline Rush is a better combination for the Vindicator later on in the game once you have some weapon upgrades (and appropriate ammo) since I was still able to take down a normal enemy in two shots using hardened; but earlier in the game I'd still go with Commando and Heightened since I found it was taking me 3 shots using hardened to down a normal enemy earlier in the campaign and that was causing my limited Vindicator ammo to be diminished 50% faster than when I was using Heightened Adrenaline Rush.

[Athenau]

The best weapon to use with hardened adrenaline rush is the Eviscerator, because of a quirk in the way the numbers. You get to fire two shots in AR, reload after it wears off, and just as the reload finishes the AR cooldown finishes and you can do it all over again. So 2 out of 3 shots get the AR bonus, even though AR only has a 40% uptime (2 game seconds--4 sec real time on insanity, 50% dilation--per 5 game seconds).

Modifié par Athenau, 09 mai 2010 - 02:33 .

[implodinggoat]

Athenau wrote...

Could you post a vid of you getting 3?  I know I've sometimes seen the Vindicator do two bursts back to back, but that isn't repeatable AFAICT.

Edit:  There's a weird phenomenon where if you start firing at the same time you trigger adrenaline rush, the burst comes out at "normal" speed.  Maybe that would let you squeeze in one more burst, I don't know, but 4 seems out of the question.

I play on 360 so posting a vid would be a lot of trouble since I don't own a video camera. 

After further experimentation it can be done; but its very tight and I can't do it reliably.  To do it you need to get the first burst to be flying out of the barrel the instant Adrenaline Rush begins and then max the rate of fire by pulsing the trigger perfectly for both the second and third shots.  If you can get it to all come together the first burst will fire at the instant adrenaline rush starts, the second burst will go off slightly less than half way through the rush and the third burst will fire right before the Adrenaline Rush ends.  In all honesty its so hard to pull off that I don't think its worth the effort since I doubt I could ever do it reliably and on top of that focusing so much attention on getting that extra burst is hurting my accuraccy which means even if I get the third burst off I'm just as likely to score a bodyshot or miss entirely as I am to score a successful headshot.

[OniGanon]

Athenau wrote...
Fun fact, your melee speed stay the same in AR, so with hardened you're meleeing 2x as fast relative to the game world and with heightened you're meleeing 3.33x as fast. Go go epic elbows!

Really?

Hmm, that's interesting...

[TwevOWNED]

All class powers are Godly, and each excell in specific range.
AR , Drones, and Tech Armor are the gateways to easy-mode.
Cloak, Charge, and Singularity are all powers you have to think about using before activation.

Heightend AR which slows down time by 70% allows you to take 3 shots with the Viper, 8 Shots with the Reverent, 1 "Blast 'O' Doom"  with the Claymore, and 1 all powerful "Boom, Headshot" with the Widow Ani-Matter Rifle.

And to those saying that cloak is useless, shame on you for not upgrading to Assasination Cloak, and not activating it every time you used your Sniper Rifle.

Modifié par KDogg in AK, 09 mai 2010 - 03:08 .