138 réponses à ce sujet

[GothamLord]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

This is the Asari justice system.  The Justicar order is a part of the Asari societal justice system.  You seem to be condemning Samara and/or the Justicars' for their actions, while possibly excluding the larger Asari justice system as a whole, and to a larger extent Asari society.  That seems to be a contradiction to me. 

Maybe I am.  I am human after all, and we dont have a true written documentation of the Asari law system or the Justicar Code as comparison.  I would condem the actions of any society that claims to have such a lofty position as a Justicar used as the pinnacle of law and order that would be so casually willing to sacrifice its lower servants of law enforcement.

Elaborate and clarify bad parenting skills please.

Morinth was born with the A/Y trait.  Tracking Morinth down is part the Justicar job, but Samara bears the ultimate responsibility, because she is the mother of the child.  For her not to track down Morinth, would be irresponsible as a mother and as a Justicar.

Maybe i just grew up with a nice family structure.  Maybe I was just really lucky. But even dealing with some the dirtballs that have come through, I havent see one who's own mother would pull the trigger on their own child. Beat the living crap out of them and ask them what the hell was wrong with them.  Tell the police to lock them up and throw away the key yes.  But for a mother to willingly throw the switch to kill their own child, I dont think there is any sane human mother that would do such a thing unless there was no other choice.  The minute Samara joined with Shepard  she just got a choice.  Maybe when it was just her, okay but now Shepard is in the equation.

Nevermind Morinth has been doing this for 400 years right?  Where the bloody hell are all the other Justicars in Asari society?  Arent Arday Yakshi  really bad PR for the Asari culture??  Why is Samara the ONLY one hunting her down?  I guess they are off in limbo with the rest of the galaxy Spectres we never see. I know if Samara was an officer assigned to tracking her down, she would have been replaced after 400 years of coming up empty.  If shes not specifically assigned to hunting Morinth it is a personal chase, as its her daughter.

People are born with and develop  psychological issues in their brain.  They sometimes become notorious criminals.  Although in some cases I may sympathize with them regarding the cards they are dealt with in life, they must be removed from society nonetheless.

Neversaid she shouldnt be removed from society.  With Shepard involved though as I said before, killing Morinth is no longer the only answer.   I would have rather had an outcome that allowed Morinth to be taken into custody and forced into some kind of rehab/exile.    Samara gets her capture without having to kill her own child.

Modifié par GothamLord, 07 mai 2010 - 09:00 .

[GothamLord]

JohnnyDollar wrote...


I would agree with this if Morinth was a child and not 400 yrs old.  Morinth has chosen how to live her life.  She even stated that Samara tried to teach her children self denial.  I would think that this only bolsters Samara's case concerning her parenting of her A/Y children.

As far as Samara killing her, well Morinth is a mind melding serial killer Asari.  She tracked her down for ~300 yrs.  I can't say that I would take the chance of capturing her with the possibility of her escape.  The game doesn't work this way though.  Shepard is not given a choice to arrest Shialia or Rana Thanoptis for example.  I killed both in my first playthrough, because I didn't trust them, and wasn't given the option to arrest them.  This was from a non-meta gaming perspective.

Shes also suffering from a diease and addiction thats gone unchecked for several hundred years and be allowed to be continously feed.  I doubt Morinth is totally is a sound state of mind anymore.  Like most "vampires"  I'm sure living people are no longer viewed as anything more than walking, talking turkey legs. Such waiting until she sees one that interests her and shes hungry.  I doubt when Morinth ran she really expected to turn into a serial killer.  I see it more as a confussed young girl thats being told she cant love anyone because of some diease she wa born with, has to spend the rest of their life in isolation (900+ years is a long freaking time) , and knows that this melding that shes told is bad and seems to kill people feels *REALLY good*.  So like most teenages she rebels and runs off.

400 years is a long slope to slide down with an addiction as deadly as hers.

A case of the game not going far enough in depth I suppose.

Agreed

[Ecael]

In Morinth's defense, her mother was forcing her to live in isolation while wearing the mental version of a chastity belt for the rest of her life.

[Fatclassic]

POO

[NKKKK]

It's Samara's fault for all this, let her die. Maybe we can cure Morinth and her sisters later.

[GothamLord]

yorkj86 wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

It's Samara's fault for all this, let her die. Maybe we can cure Morinth and her sisters later.

Not sure if serious...

Bah we'll have a cure for everything at the end of ME3.

Thane's diease, the genophage, Joker's diease, the Quarian's immune system, Morinth's diease, the scale itch on the Normandy so people will stop blaming Kelly for it,

[Agent.0.Fortune]

Having played both, Morinth has much more depth, and is a much more sympathetic character. Sure she kills for the thrill of it, but similar to Jack it is because she has no social concience, a fault of her upbrining, not a symptom of her condition.



I would also like to point out that Morinth was the first of 3 daughters, all AY, and yet Samara chose to continue procreate with with other Asari (AY can only be created through a union of two Asari), knowing the concequences. They then joined the Justicar also knowing the consequences of that decision. Frankly Samara is more of a sociopath than Morinth, and after 1000 years is likely irredeemable, while Morinth is simply a product of her enviornment.



Even if Morinth is irredeemablely evil, it is still the lesser of the two.

[Collider]

Give me one example of where Jack kills just for the thrill of it.

Modifié par Collider, 07 mai 2010 - 10:54 .

[Ecael]

Collider wrote...

Give me one example of where Jack kills just for the thrill of it.

I don't think Morinth kills just for the thrill of it either...

[Collider]

Ecael wrote...

Collider wrote...

Give me one example of where Jack kills just for the thrill of it.

I don't think Morinth kills just for the thrill of it either...

Morinth kills for sexual pleasure and power...Jack, unless someone wants to correct me, has not  killed anything that wasn't in revenge, or perceived self-defense.

Modifié par Collider, 07 mai 2010 - 11:22 .

[Jackal904]

Only to get the dominate ability.

[OverlordNexas]

Only once to get dominate and see what's different. Ended up killing her during the suicide mission as I couldn't justify keeping her alive. I'll probably never do it again either, as she is such a shallow and generally unlikable character.

[Ecael]

Collider wrote...

Morinth kills for sexual pleasure and power...Jack has, unless someone wants to correct me, has  killed anything that wasn't in revenge, or perceived self-defense.

Morinth simply wants to satisfy her urges. If she had the choice to do so without killing anyone, she would take that route - however, she doesn't have that choice.

Her mother didn't give her a choice either. It's not just prison or death - it's solitude, abstinence and chastity OR death. One can assume that Asari receive sexual pleasure from mental stimulation much more than physical contact, and I don't think an Asari can mentally stimulate themselves without developing some other severe obsession.

In other words, if an adolescent human (male or female) -- upon hitting puberty -- is told three things:

1. She is not allowed to socialize with anyone outside her family

2. She is not allowed to experience sexual pleasure of any kind

3. She has to follow these guidelines for practically her entire life (for Morinth - 1000+ years), even if her urges tell her otherwise

How many adolescents will actually obey those terms set by their parents? Even if they are told that some random person in the galaxy will die if they break any of those rules, how many will be convinced? If I were in Morinth's place, running away is the only option.

If I sound like I'm defending Morinth too seriously, I apologize. It just so happens that I have slightly more in common with Kasumi and Morinth (not THAT attribute) than the other Mass Effect characters.

(And no, that did not affect my choices in this thread)

[Collider]

Morinth simply wants to satisfy her urges. If she had the choice to do so without killing anyone, she would take that route - however, she doesn't have that choice.

That's quite the assumption. Have you been listening to what Morinth says? She clearly says that she LIKES the hunt. She likes lulling her victims into a false sense of security before she KILLS them. That's not someone doesn't enjoy killing.



First of all, she would need to kill someone in the thirst place. Her other sisters CHOSE not to kill, yet Morinth did. That's already a strike against her. A

Her mother didn't give her a choice either. It's not just prison or death - it's solitude, abstinence and chastity OR death. One can assume that Asari receive sexual pleasure from mental stimulation much more than physical contact, and I don't think an Asari can mentally stimulate themselves without developing some other severe obsession.

Boo ****ing who. Her sisters were able to do it, Morinth can as well. It's not like they're being TORTURED. People have been in prison before with little to no human contact without coming out like Morinth.

If I were in Morinth's place, running away is the only option.

I doubt that.

[Tlazolteotl]

Ecael wrote...

It just so happens that I have slightly more in common with Kasumi and Morinth (not THAT attribute) than the other Mass Effect characters.

Somehow, that explains a lot.

[cachx]

I don't really buy Morinth as "poor misunderstood girl with no other choice". But then again, I don't buy Samara's BS code either.



I never seem to have enough points for making the decision, next time I'll go out of my way to get her for curiosity's sake. (My next playthrough is a everybody but 2 squaddies die anyway, so she won't be around to cause trouble )

[Chuvvy]

I did, too see her dialog tree and so I could see what would happen in ME3.

[Ecael]

Collider wrote...

Morinth simply wants to satisfy her urges. If she had the choice to do so without killing anyone, she would take that route - however, she doesn't have that choice.

That's quite the assumption. Have you been listening to what Morinth says? She clearly says that she LIKES the hunt. She likes lulling her victims into a false sense of security before she KILLS them. That's not someone doesn't enjoy killing.

First of all, she would need to kill someone in the thirst place. Her other sisters CHOSE not to kill, yet Morinth did. That's already a strike against her.

It's only natural that she'd be classically conditioned to experience pleasure from killing when her ability automatically kills someone with sex. It is possible that her first encounters may have been sexually motivated, but as she continues, she starts to derive pleasure from killing because that happens after the fact. Thus, in Pavlovian terms:

Unconditional stimulus - Sex
Unconditional response - Pleasure
Conditional stimulus - Killing her partner
Conditional response - Pleasure from killing

She didn't experience pleasure from killing before until she started mind-melding with others.

Her mother didn't give her a choice either. It's not just prison or death - it's solitude, abstinence and chastity OR death. One can assume that Asari receive sexual pleasure from mental stimulation much more than physical contact, and I don't think an Asari can mentally stimulate themselves without developing some other severe obsession.

Boo ****ing who. Her sisters were able to do it, Morinth can as well. It's not like they're being TORTURED. People have been in prison before with little to no human contact without coming out like Morinth.

Prisons still allow conjugal visits to inmates (and inmates find other ways of taking people's... pride... or dealing with their own urges). What Samara is offering to her daughter is a life completely devoid of pleasure or socialization - much worse than prison. Samara is essentially saying:

"You can live, Morinth, as long as you isolate yourself from the world and NEVER touch anyone inappropriately - including yourself"

If some parents can convince all of their children to follow that for their entire lives, then I'd be impressed. As for the others - it's possible that the other two daughters knew they couldn't run (Morinth is the smartest and bravest of the three, after all) and chose that life only because the only other alternative is death.
Also, there's no need to swear, Collider.

If I were in Morinth's place, running away is the only option.

I doubt that.

Morinth has three options, the other daughters only had the first two:
1. Live a life of absolutely no pleasure whatsoever (starting from Asari "puberty")
2. Die
3. Use her wits to escape

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Ecael wrote...
It just so happens that I have slightly more in common with Kasumi and Morinth (not THAT attribute) than the other Mass Effect characters.

Somehow, that explains a lot.

Modifié par Ecael, 08 mai 2010 - 12:46 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Ecael brings up a good point about the classical conditioning for Morinth, pleasure, and the killing of her mates. It's also why I think Shepard surviving the romance path could have been such a major catalyst for Morinth as a character: it would have been the first time the conditioned response did not bring the consequence. If Morinth could have the pleasure without the consequence...