138 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

yorkj86 wrote...

@Ecael,

Samara gave those options to Morinth, but so would any other authority figure.   You are saying nothing original.

As I stated before, the Asari institutionalize/imprison their dangerous individuals in the very same way humans do.   Whether or not they want out is irrelevant.   They are a danger to themselves, and to others, and must be removed from the general population.   That the Asari live around 900 more years than humans is regrettable, but of no consequence to the argument.

The point I'm trying to make though is that Morinth never had a choice. It's kind of like that old Internet meme:



Except in this case, Asari can't mind-meld themselves, and when they do mind-meld, they kill a person.

[Tlazolteotl]

Well, some spiders eat their mates, but is that "a danger to themselves and to others?"

NO.

[Tlazolteotl]

I'm perfectly serious.

Spiders have to infuse a lot of nutrients into the eggs in order to maximise the offsprings' survival, and eating their mates is useful.

I'm just saying the assumption that "killing their mates while having sex" = evil isn't unheard of in nature, and in some cases it's the best thing to do.

[Tlazolteotl]

You don't need to be guilty of anything that your death is a boon to others.

Omega is a space station. Life support is limited. Simply by dying someone is always a boon to others.

I'm not saying Morinth is right, I'm saying making moral assumptions about anything is always stupid.

[Ecael]

yorkj86 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

The point I'm trying to make though is that Morinth never had a choice.

A choice between entering Asari monasticism, or fleeing to be hunted?  I assume someone made Samara's three daughters aware of the first choice and the second, implicit one, since her other two daughters chose to enter monastic life.

As I mentioned before, Morinth is the one smart enough to escape, and she's the only one Samara is hunting. Perhaps the other two daughters know that they won't be able to escape (since Morinth is used an example of what happens).

Human monasteries and churches are different -- there's nothing stopping a human from taking a vow of celibacy and... *ahem* taking care of their urges themselves in private, or getting involved in some sex scandal. With Asari (and Morinth especially), she can't pleasure herself and has to find pleasure in others. She's told to avoid all physical contact at the worst time - Asari puberty.

How many people go through their entire lives with sexual urges (that is, not made genetically or clinically asexual) without ever trying to satisfy them?

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ecael wrote...
The point I'm trying to make though is that Morinth never had a choice.

She didn't have a choice concerning the A/Y trait. She is given a choice as to how to live her life. She made that choice. Would I do the same in Morinths shoes? Can't say fore sure myself, but that doesn't detract from the fact that she needs to be removed from society. Agree or disagree?

While it's true that she needs to be removed from society for society's sake, you can't blame her for doing what she did.

[DOYOURLABS]

I did. And immediately red-ringed.

[Dean_the_Young]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Ecael brings up a good point about the classical conditioning for Morinth, pleasure, and the killing of her mates. It's also why I think Shepard surviving the romance path could have been such a major catalyst for Morinth as a character: it would have been the first time the conditioned response did not bring the consequence. If Morinth could have the pleasure without the consequence...

I would say that she would simply make another attempt on someone else when she had the chance.  I  can't imagine one response that does not bring consequences, convincing Morinth to live the rest of her life in celibacy.

It wouldn't be just one: why would Shepard insist she become celibate afterwards? The first would make it unique and allow a bond to settle, but the ability to continually do it would allow a different sort of conditioning to counter the first.

[Tlazolteotl]

yorkj86 wrote...

What in the...are you advocating amorality?

Only for those who are smart enough to get by without it.

[Tlazolteotl]

Orly? To be fair, there are 4 people in the city I live in that are smarter than me.

So I guess I can't claim to be all that.

[Collider]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather die than kill innocent people just to satisfy some selfish urge. Fortunately for the Ardat-Yakshi, they don't have to, because they can just live in seclusion. That doesn't mean they CAN'T be entertained in some way.

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

I don't know about you, but I'd rather die than kill innocent people just to satisfy some selfish urge. Fortunately for the Ardat-Yakshi, they don't have to, because they can just live in seclusion. That doesn't mean they CAN'T be entertained in some way.

... Go on.

[Dean_the_Young]

Until you've been hit with an actual addiction, it's hard to fathom how overpowering it can be. After a point, it ascends being a urge and becomes a dominating, even psychological, need.



The Ardat-Yakshi start addicted: the condition can't even be known until it acts, at which point it's too late.



The entire problem with Ardat-Yakshi is that their sexual desires/needs can't be entertained, because the act of entertaining them (the mental meld, which is crucial for the Asari's experience) is what kills.

[Collider]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Until you've been hit with an actual addiction, it's hard to fathom how overpowering it can be. After a point, it ascends being a urge and becomes a dominating, even psychological, need.

The Ardat-Yakshi start addicted: the condition can't even be known until it acts, at which point it's too late.

The entire problem with Ardat-Yakshi is that their sexual desires/needs can't be entertained, because the act of entertaining them (the mental meld, which is crucial for the Asari's experience) is what kills.

The condemning thing for Morinth is that we already have evidence of people being able to resist the urge. Yet Morinth doesn't, instead she indulges in evil and kills innocent people like Nef. 

[Sand King]

Collider wrote...

The condemning thing for Morinth is that we already have evidence of people being able to resist the urge. Yet Morinth doesn't, instead she indulges in evil and kills innocent people like Nef. 

Any reason your trolling Morinth

[Collider]

Sand King wrote...

Collider wrote...

The condemning thing for Morinth is that we already have evidence of people being able to resist the urge. Yet Morinth doesn't, instead she indulges in evil and kills innocent people like Nef. 

Any reason your trolling Morinth

feels good man