101 réponses à ce sujet

[VampireCommando]

Creating a new class thats kinda hard, i mean we have everything, warriors rouges and mages, i think what your after are better specalizations for each class no?

[CybAnt1]

I like your cavalier idea, it simply requires adding mounts to the game.



Not a non-trivial problem, of course, which is why despite all the begging for Bio & Obs to add them to NWN1 or NWN2, it hasn't happened yet.



However, and I've always said this, I hope if they do add them, it's not just as travel speed boosts (like in WoW) (which is unnecessary given the non sandbox nature of the game), but as tools for mounted combat for classes like your concept (and how they function in games like Sacred).

[CybAnt1]

VampireCommando wrote...

Creating a new class thats kinda hard, i mean we have everything, warriors rouges and mages, i think what your after are better specalizations for each class no?

For everyone who says this, let me point out 4E D & D currently has ~20 base classes. That's ignoring all the prestige/specialty/hero classes. 

Artificer
Avenger
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Invoker
Monk
Paladin
Psion
Ranger
Rogue
Shaman
Sorcerer
Swordmage
Warden (yep, that's a D & D class)
Warlock
Warlord
Wizard

It's true everything is really based around 4 archetypal roles (Controller, Striker, Leader & Defender) & 5 power sources (Primal, Shadow, Divine, Arcane, Psionic).

In DA, there's only one source of power, the Fade, and it's ALL arcane magic. Druids (keepers) are mages. Healers are mages. Warlocks are mages. By making everything magical a mage, sure, DA has simplified all this. The problem is BTW it makes it impossible to have alternative casting systems, let alone alternative spell repertoires. 

Defender = tank = warrior
Striker = dps = rogue
Controller = CCer = mage
Leader = ???
now who plays the Leader role in DA? Nobody. There's room for a fourth class, solely for this very role, however they want to implement it. 

Leaders inspire, heal, and aid the players. Leaders generally have good defense and attack, but their true power lies in boosting the power of their party by healing or buffs and hindering their enemies by weakening them.

I know what you're going to say. That's a cleric, and DA has no clerics! Yes, but there's no earthly reason why they couldn't make a class that has the same kind of foci/aspects, but doesn't rely on "divine" power (which doesn't exist in DA, anyway). That alone is an opportunity to make a fourth class. Just something to take on the Leader role....

I originally was going to call that class the Healer, but then decided (in my mind, anyway) to combine it with my concept for a (mostly) unarmed fighter, and decided maybe it could be called Spirit Sage. 

There is definitely room for a 4th class in DA, and maybe a 5th and 6th, but I also agree I'd like to see richer, more interesting specializations of the base ones as well. 

[CybAnt1]

So do I, but be careful to avoid all the class-haters that class has in other threads.

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

Chantry Devout

+2 Strength +2 Constitution



Focus: Hand to Hand Combat



Ability: Able to fight on par with armed opponents, able to deal damaged when not equipped with a weapon similar if not stronger when character is equipped with a weapon.



Talents:

Unarmed Fighting (Passive)

Character is able to deal similar damage to an armed character when unarmed. The fist and legs of the character take property of the weapon material based on strength.



Strength 1-19 (Tier 1)

Strength 20-21 (Tier 2)

Strength 22-25 (Tier 3)

Strength 26-31 (Tier 4)

Strength 32-33 (Tier 5)

Strength 34-37 (Tier 6)

Strength 38-41 (Tier 7)

Strength 42-45 (Tier 8)

Strength 46-Higher (Tier 9)



I AM A MAN/WOMEN *PUNCH* (Didn't know a proper name used Linkara's favourite line)

The character uses his fist to punch out and opponent 3 times, dealing normal damage if the last attack hits it will always be a critical and stuns opponent for 7 seconds (God's favourite number screw me!).



Meditation (Sustained)

Character goes into meditation and falls into a trance. While this form is activated character gains a + 5 Strength + 15 attack and gains the ability to dodge both magic and physical attacks (30% Chance) but suffers from accuracy (-25% attacking chance regardless of dexterity or hit rate), health and stamina regeneration. Stamina is continuously drained while this skill is active.



Maker's Breath:

Area of effect skill. Character has a 5 second cast time to spread the words of the chantry dealing damage to opponents. Best used against the undead. Useless against fade demons *Proven by the alienage quest that we had to help the templar who died anyway in the end*

[VampireCommando]

CybAnt1 wrote...

VampireCommando wrote...

Creating a new class thats kinda hard, i mean we have everything, warriors rouges and mages, i think what your after are better specalizations for each class no?

For everyone who says this, let me point out 4E D & D currently has ~20 base classes. That's ignoring all the prestige/specialty/hero classes. 

Artificer
Avenger
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Invoker
Monk
Paladin
Psion
Ranger
Rogue
Shaman
Sorcerer
Swordmage
Warden (yep, that's a D & D class)
Warlock
Warlord
Wizard

It's true everything is really based around 4 archetypal roles (Controller, Striker, Leader & Defender) & 5 power sources (Primal, Shadow, Divine, Arcane, Psionic).

In DA, there's only one source of power, the Fade, and it's ALL arcane magic. Druids (keepers) are mages. Healers are mages. Warlocks are mages. By making everything magical a mage, sure, DA has simplified all this. The problem is BTW it makes it impossible to have alternative casting systems, let alone alternative spell repertoires. 

Defender = tank = warrior
Striker = dps = rogue
Controller = CCer = mage
Leader = ???
now who plays the Leader role in DA? Nobody. There's room for a fourth class, solely for this very role, however they want to implement it. 

Leaders inspire, heal, and aid the players. Leaders generally have good defense and attack, but their true power lies in boosting the power of their party by healing or buffs and hindering their enemies by weakening them.

I know what you're going to say. That's a cleric, and DA has no clerics! Yes, but there's no earthly reason why they couldn't make a class that has the same kind of foci/aspects, but doesn't rely on "divine" power (which doesn't exist in DA, anyway). That alone is an opportunity to make a fourth class. Just something to take on the Leader role....

I originally was going to call that class the Healer, but then decided (in my mind, anyway) to combine it with my concept for a (mostly) unarmed fighter, and decided maybe it could be called Spirit Sage. 

There is definitely room for a 4th class in DA, and maybe a 5th and 6th, but I also agree I'd like to see richer, more interesting specializations of the base ones as well. 

I  stand corrected

[astrallite]

Nothing says monks *have* to be bare-handed. They could wear armored/padded gloves, and basically be kickboxers.

Besides, really, what is the problem with a monk class even if it is bare-handed? You can already go through the game and beat pretty much anyone barehanded if your strength is high enough, so suspension of disbelief is already irrelevant given the existing combat system. All we're asking for is specializations.

Modifié par astrallite, 15 mai 2010 - 10:07 .

[CybAnt1]

People actually hate the monk class?

AFAICT, the dislike comes from one of two vectors:

1) for many people, including myself, the monk is an "Eastern" or "Oriental" themed archetype. And they're purists that way. Monks belong in Jade Empire. Knights belong in DA. Knights and Monks -- hanging out together -- like they did in Forgotten Realms -- it's like dogs and cats living together ... "mass hysteria!" 

but: who knows -- it doesn't have to be oriental themed or flavored (although I prefer it that way, because from my POV while such a class wouldn't always fight without weapons, when it did turn to weapons, it would use eastern-flavored ones like bo staves, nunchaku, shuriken, etc.) 

2) the other is the "you're killing dragons and punching out people in plate armor?" crowd, to which I can only answer, yes, the class only makes sense if it is magically augmenting the power of one's own body. Which I have to assume is what would the basis of any such class. 

People ask "why would you fight without weapons".... to which my answer is, duh, if my fists are blazing with elemental energy, doing massive damage, stunning, and possibly delivering the quivering palm or Remo Williams' touch of death, well, maybe sometimes that beats a battle axe. 

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

CybAnt1 wrote...

People ask "why would you fight without weapons".... to which my answer is, duh, if my fists are blazing with elemental energy, doing massive damage, stunning, and possibly delivering the quivering palm or Remo Williams' touch of death, well, maybe sometimes that beats a battle axe. 

Or because the Maker told them too, or some fade spirit gives them these talents.

[Gr8Horned1]

Ninja and Samaurai..............................enuf said.

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

Gr8Horned1 wrote...

Ninja and Samaurai..............................enuf said.

Will not fit into the game's theme

Modifié par Unrefined-Nemesis, 16 mai 2010 - 02:48 .

[Gr8Horned1]

So!

[Gr8Horned1]

The Rogue is the best class................good fighter and he/she opens chests. I use a duel-weapon Rogue as my hero, 2 warriors and a mage or sometimes 1 warrior and 2 mages. But I'm betting I could finish the game with 3 Rogues and a Mage...or just 4 Rogues.

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

Gr8Horned1 wrote...

The Rogue is the best class................good fighter and he/she opens chests. I use a duel-weapon Rogue as my hero, 2 warriors and a mage or sometimes 1 warrior and 2 mages. But I'm betting I could finish the game with 3 Rogues and a Mage...or just 4 Rogues.

Technically there's no best class, that is just your personal preference. One class is more flexible than the other or your playing class defines it to be the best class. On the other hand I would concur that Warrior is the best class.

I've ran 3 solo runs on nightmare plus mod on warrior alone, S&S,  DW and 2Hander. DW warrior is far superior than a DW rogue in terms of damage and 2hander just completely destroys everything in 2-3 hits with the proper planning builds.

[CybAnt1]

Will not fit into the game's theme

Until I see a developer post saying "the world of Thedas has nothing on it that resembles our Earth's Orient or Asian people" I don't see that necessarily being the case. 

They've already said the Qunari religion is loosely based on Buddhism ... moreso than Islam (although people say their culture resembles the Ottomans). 

We don't know anything yet about the continent/place the Qunari come from, let alone having seen where they've settled in our continent. 

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Until I see a developer post saying "the world of Thedas has nothing on it that resembles our Earth's Orient or Asian people" I don't see that necessarily being the case. 

They've already said the Qunari religion is loosely based on Buddhism ... moreso than Islam (although people say their culture resembles the Ottomans). 

We don't know anything yet about the continent/place the Qunari come from, let alone having seen where they've settled in our continent. 

Its pretty clear that Dragon Age is set around the dark age with an western feel, the qunari's religion is not loosely based on Islam, rather it follows a closer line to Jewish religion, the Chantry is more closely based on Islam, The maker and his beloved prophetess, similar to Muhammad the prophet and Allah. 

Modifié par Unrefined-Nemesis, 16 mai 2010 - 04:59 .

[Catcher]

    I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here as to what constitutes a "class" in DA as opposed to that concept in D&D. It's easy to fall into the trap since Bioware RPGs have been using the D&D system or borrowing heavily from it since the Baldur's Gate days. In that system, the class is a fairly specific association of powers, abilities, requirements and limitations. If I tell you my character is a "Paladin" in a D&D setting (I'm only going from 3.5 and down, never got into Ed.4), then I've already told you most of what you need to know. Even a more general class like "Fighter" has some pretty definite limits which various D&D editions attempted to broaden/remedy through the use of sub-classes, specializations, kits, or Prestige classes. This system has the advantage of giving the Player and Game an easy method to identify the character's role and characteristics at the cost of a fair amount of customizability and control. The DA system takes a more general approach by allowing the Player to attach whatever powers and attributes he/she desires within more broad limitations to three archetypes: Warrior, Skill User, and Mage. This system lets the Player customize a wide range of Character types at the cost of losing the neat labels, which isn't insignificant but not insurrmountable either as I'll point out later.

     The reason I went through that stuff in the first paragraph is that most of the ideas mentioned in theis thread would fit easily within a modified version of DA because that's exactly the way Bioware designed it. You want to be a Barbarian? Go with a Two-Hander and Survival and up your Constitution or Willpower more for staying power and/or incredible kills. You want a D&D 4ish Champion? Take a Mage with the Healing and Enhancement spells and pickup Arcane Warrior for the weapon/armor toting ability. The suggestions for matial-arts style "monks" and mounted "chavaliers" are really not much more than Warriors with an "Unarmed Combat" or "Mounted Combat" version of the Dual Weapon or Archery combat trees. (I'll completely ignore the actual development barriers to implementing such things. Since I'm just a Forum poster and not a Developer, I get to dodge that headache )Even more interesting is the fact that the DA system would let you mix these competencies into completely different "classes" than mentioned here. Imagine a Horse Archer that used some talents of the existing Archer along with our Horseman example. Or a two-fisted "monk" who can pull twinned blades when the fight comes to steel?

     The problem for DA, as I see it is in three areas. First, whether it was a question of design, familiarity with the new system, or last-minute rebalancing, there's a serious dearth of compelling Talent choices available versus the number of Talents a Character can have at any given level. Adding to that difficulty is the complete lack of synergies between Weapon Talents in different trees so that there is little incentive to explore more than one Combat Tree. Being able to pull some Talents from one Tree while you're using a different focus would greatly expand the Player's options and let him/her get much closer to customization Nirvanna. Third, the lack of an easy label (I told you I'd get back to this ) makes it harder for the Game to acknowledge different character choices through non-combat gameplay.  To some degree, this is a failing of DA:O overall because, at the very least, Specialization choices (like Blood Mage and Reaver) should have had some significant effect on non-combat gameplay and that tag is most certainly available to the Game. While I applaud the move to make more gameplay dependant on what your Character does instead of who she/he is, there still should be some recognition of your Character's status in the DA world. That is a worthy goal.

[capt_parsons]

First, having seen more than a few comment about the "Monk" bare handed fighter concept and how some think its out of place, I dont think you all paid close enough attention to Orzamaar. The Silent Sisters are an organization that primarily specializes in bare handed fighting... as commented in the codex and in the DA book "the calling". Now how that would be implemented as a class I dont know, but some of the ideas mentioned sound decent.



Second, what I would like is are more along the lines of specializations vs classes but I still would like to add my 2 cents:



Defensive Mage - Melt/Extinguish would undue the residual effects of cone of frost/fire. Advanced Heal would be another heal spell that you can target friendlies in a cone AOE. Awaken would un-stun team members. Mass Shield would reduce/nullify the effects of ranged attacks on entire party for short time.



Trickster Thief/Illusionist - Slow would be a single enemy target is slowed to half speed allowing others to run away/reposition around him. Blinding Powder would be an AoE that stuns enemies within a cone area thrown by the thief. False Avatar would create a fake 5th team member to distract/lure the enemy, however he would disappear once struck. Fog of War would provide an AoE fog over the enemy allowing your entire party to sneak into position to fight.



Other than that... for the fighters I actually agree with some of the earlier posters about the barbarian, but not sure what abilities would be good.

[0ts0]

I think it should be possible to upgrade already taken specialization, eg. stronger mana reg, stronger spec attack/dmg etc.



Warlock - new spelltree and spellcombos.

[Thomas9321]

I'd like to to see the specialisation system fleshed out rather than new classes. Race specific specialisations would be nice a Dalish Keeper perhaps could be expanded to a full class maybe? Or a specialisation for Dwarves involving the manipulation of lyrium or runes?

Modifié par Thomas9321, 23 mai 2010 - 06:59 .

[Taniwha]

Some facts to support the monk idea:

This is a fantasy game. The reason of how a person could beat a dragon with his fist is the same of how could do it with a normal arrow. There is some discipline between martial artist called "kyusho" which is the focus on vital points when you hit. Maybe you do not perforate a plate with your fist but maybe we could say that the impact can lead to contusions, bloodflow interuption, those kind of things. Or just take advantage of weak points, etc.

Also, there is another fact: when soldiers walk throught a bridge they stop the march and walk normally, because the regular rythim could cause (if the number of troops is big enought) the structure to collapse (due to the frecuence of vibration). Monks could have a similar talent on people, constructos or huge beasts

Also, like said before, there could be knuckles to improve penetration, special gauntlets and such.

There are plenty of arguments. I think that the bare hand fighter (not necessary the usual "shaoilin" concept) or "exotic" fighter can be very interesting.

Modifié par Taniwha, 23 mai 2010 - 07:30 .

[Thomas9321]

I'd like there to be no D&D classes but rather stuff grounded in Dragon Age lore. I think that would be more interesting and unique than say, Cleric, Druid, Monk etc.

[CybAnt1]

Thomas9321 wrote...

I'd like there to be no D&D classes

You're too late. Every rogue specialization is pretty much culled from D & D ... Assassin, Bard, Ranger; Duelist is a prestige class, Shadow seems based on Shadowdancers. Legionnaire Scout is the only original one. 

As far as the warriors, templar just seems to be a slight reworking of Paladin; berserker is borrowed; so is champion, and guardian seems like a reworking of dwarven defender. Only the spirit warrior and reaver are a bit original. 

Mages ... D & D has a shifter (shapeshifter) class ... arcane warriors (swordmages) ... keeper just seems to be Druid... Blood Mage is really their only original idea. 

So for everyone who says they shouldn't rework concepts from D & D ... AFAICT, they mostly have already. And in fairly bland ways, mostly as fairly simple specializations of the base classes. (D & D rangers & bards are a lot more interesting than DAO ones).