98 réponses à ce sujet

[GothamLord]

AlanC9 wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Then you would be guessing wrong!

The over all opinion of ME2 has been less then desired or expected.
The sales been great but most of that can be attribulted to returning customers from ME1 and word of mouth on how good ME1 was.

What's that based on? Sales have been good, and the reviews better than ME2's. So you're essentially arguing that the majority of people who bought ME2 disagree with the reviewers, and that ME2 is a critical success and a sales success but somehow not a popular success.

I guess that's conceivable... but what I don't see is how you could know it.

Maybe he was shooting for irony with the quote he used.  Since he was talking about the people that dont like stuff being the vocal ones on the boards??? 

Personally I actually liked ME2 better than ME1, and I loathe FIRST Person Shooters.   People need to grasp there is a difference between a FPS and a TPS.   ME2 gave me many fond memories of old action-adventure games like Shadows of the Empire with the over the shoulder view and not getting clogged and weighted down with a pain in the butt inventory system.  

[TJSolo]

GothamLord wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

When something doesn't follow its own internal rules. It is inconsistent.
Just a game, yes it is a game. How observant you are.

You obviously missed my point.  You can shove all the real world science you want into it, try and make logically sense of this or that.  When the day is over though one thing is always going to be fact above all else ...Its a game.  Fans take games/TV Shows/Books/Movies whatever the media that develop franchises like Mass Effect way to seriously.   There is a point where logic does have to come into play.  People running around outside in the vacuum of space with no suits or air would cause alot of crys of foul. They would be justified.  When it comes down to the suit or something as minor as the placement of the barrier shield in the opening scene vs. Shepard shoving him into the escape hatch, where it appears the shield has magically moved because Joker shouldnt be able to move through open space without a suit.  People just need to take a minute to step back and breathe.  Does that little thing really go on to ruin your entire experience with the game??  If it is, you need to find another outlet than video games or science fiction entertainment in general.

What the hell are you talking about shoving real world science? It is the science ME established for itself in the first iteration.
The scene of Joker in the beginning is not the quote or issue I have in my comments. Clearly that is an emergency situation hence, the face shield and kinetic barrier being up. The Kin barrier was up because Joker can not survive indefinetly exposed to space, although he can momentarily pass through it and still survive.
It is a game is an obvious fact about the actual item but not defense for not retaining internal consistency.

You are reading to much into the comments and making greater assumptions then you should. Noting and commenting on inconsistencies does not mean the entire experience has been ruined. All you are doing is trying to deflect the issues that are there(inconsistencies)with issues that are not there(Somones ruined experience).

I play the game and I post on the companies provided forum for posting, not sure how that is anymore serious then the next person here. Unless it is just another half-assed attempt at deflection.
You can call it little all you please it doesn't mean admonish the mistakes.
I am not sure about your experiences with the sci-fi genre in general but a product keeping their inconsistencies in check can mean the difference between being camp or immerisive.

[TJSolo]

Massadonious1 wrote...

There are these things called scientists. They research stuff. In the 150+ years from now in which this game takes place, they could of researched some dohickey that could prevent the effects of vaccum on open skin.

If that's too complicated I can use sign language.

Coulds and ifs. Why don't you deal with the game as it stands the the lore that actually is in use instead of blowing smoke up peoples ass with your crappy coulds and ifs.

[GothamLord]

TJSolo wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

When something doesn't follow its own internal rules. It is inconsistent.
Just a game, yes it is a game. How observant you are.

You obviously missed my point.  You can shove all the real world science you want into it, try and make logically sense of this or that.  When the day is over though one thing is always going to be fact above all else ...Its a game.  Fans take games/TV Shows/Books/Movies whatever the media that develop franchises like Mass Effect way to seriously.   There is a point where logic does have to come into play.  People running around outside in the vacuum of space with no suits or air would cause alot of crys of foul. They would be justified.  When it comes down to the suit or something as minor as the placement of the barrier shield in the opening scene vs. Shepard shoving him into the escape hatch, where it appears the shield has magically moved because Joker shouldnt be able to move through open space without a suit.  People just need to take a minute to step back and breathe.  Does that little thing really go on to ruin your entire experience with the game??  If it is, you need to find another outlet than video games or science fiction entertainment in general.

What the hell are you talking about shoving real world science? It is the science ME established for itself in the first iteration.
The scene of Joker in the beginning is not the quote or issue I have in my comments. Clearly that is an emergency situation hence, the face shield and kinetic barrier being up. The Kin barrier was up because Joker can not survive indefinetly exposed to space, although he can momentarily pass through it and still survive.
It is a game is an obvious fact about the actual item but not defense for not retaining internal consistency.

You are reading to much into the comments and making greater assumptions then you should. Noting and commenting on inconsistencies does not mean the entire experience has been ruined. All you are doing is trying to deflect the issues that are there(inconsistencies)with issues that are not there(Somones ruined experience).

I play the game and I post on the companies provided forum for posting, not sure how that is anymore serious then the next person here. Unless it is just another half-assed attempt at deflection.
You can call it little all you please it doesn't mean admonish the mistakes.
I am not sure about your experiences with the sci-fi genre in general but a product keeping their inconsistencies in check can mean the difference between being camp or immerisive.

Yes the sciene it established that includes silly things like Elemental Zero that dont exist.  Making up elements, metals, and other various things are what put the fiction in science fiction.  Its a fictious world using real world science where it wants it and twisting around it where it needs to for other things to work.   Because something doesnt look right or make sense , logically its because your using what you understand to be correct in the real world as we know it.   It may not apply to the ME world.  Hence shoving in real world science.

I used Joker's scene as an example because its one that gets brought up alot I see with people screaming about the vacuum issue which was involved in the debate.  I am allowed to bring more items into the conversation, we arent required to just focus on a single example for the next 5 pages.

I'm not trying to deflect anything so please stop being a tool and get off your high horse. Your the current person among a few here talking about this. *You* might not have as big a issue with some of the inconsistencies as another person.  But there are some people on these board that I refer to talking about this in a general sense that seriously need to get a life.

[Massadonious1]

TJSolo wrote...
 blowing smoke up peoples ass with your crappy coulds and ifs.

I'd rather blow smoke up my own ass with my own plausible reasoning than have a stick up my ass about these sorts of things.

[TJSolo]

GothamLord wrote...
Yes the sciene it established that includes silly things like Elemental Zero that dont exist.  Making up elements, metals, and other various things are what put the fiction in science fiction.  Its a fictious world using real world science where it wants it and twisting around it where it needs to for other things to work.   Because something doesnt look right or make sense , logically its because your using what you understand to be correct in the real world as we know it.   It may not apply to the ME world.  Hence shoving in real world science.

Sci-fi is what ME is, that explains your first 3 sentences and has nothing to do with what is being talked about in terms of inconsistency.
The codex and the lore is the understanding being used for things like a tattoo chick wandering around space stations, hazardous planets, and other questionable alien environments. As biotics is not magic and does not protect against viruses, slow moving objects, radiation, or tempurature. This is per the codex not out of any real world Physics book.

I'm not trying to deflect anything so please stop being a tool and get off your high horse. Your the current person among a few here talking about this. *You* might not have as big a issue with some of the inconsistencies as another person.  But there are some people on these board that I refer to talking about this in a general sense that seriously need to get a life.

When you are quoting someone leave the generalites and feelings you have about "others" out the window and deal with the person you are quoting. Don't go trying to prove a point you had 10 days ago with someone else by trying to assume my comments are the same as someone else.
Yeah all you have been doing is deflecting and not dealing with the points people have said about inconsistencies.

[TJSolo]

Massadonious1 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...
 blowing smoke up peoples ass with your crappy coulds and ifs.

I'd rather blow smoke up my own ass with my own plausible reasoning than have a stick up my ass about these sorts of things.

Ignoring what is there and making up your own "explanation" is fine for you personally.
Trying to pander your "explanation" onto someone else is pointless as your "explanation" has no grounds in the game and is just bunk.

Modifié par TJSolo, 08 mai 2010 - 08:16 .

[GothamLord]

TJSolo wrote...

Sci-fi is what ME is, that explains your first 3 sentences and has nothing to do with what is being talked about in terms of inconsistency.
The codex and the lore is the understanding being used for things like a tattoo chick wandering around space stations, hazardous planets, and other questionable alien environments. As biotics is not magic and does not protect against viruses, slow moving objects, radiation, or tempurature. This is per the codex not out of any real world Physics book.

The codex does not also go into in-depth detail on how every little thing works either. It explains alot but it cant be expected to explain everything. Maybe there is some scientifc explanation for how Jack is able to run around in a questionable enviroment.  Just cause the game doesnt hold our hand and explain it, doesnt mean one cant be formed, by shoving in those real world science facts again. Unless the codex clearly says "..it is impossible for a human being to existence for more than ten minutes in a questionable vacuum enviornment without a full eviromental suit. No other means of protection exist."   there is the chance to explain it away.

When you are quoting someone leave the generalites and feelings you have about "others" out the window and deal with the person you are quoting. Don't go trying to prove a point you had 10 days ago with someone else by trying to assume my comments are the same as someone else.
Yeah all you have been doing is deflecting and not dealing with the points people have said about inconsistencies.

When I started responding in this discussion, my first comment was in regards to a "general" viewpoint of people and another poster's statement of the same regard.  I havent changed my focus from being on general audience at any point in this topic.  Why would I change my direction when the topic was centered around the general feelings of the masses on the inconsistencies??

[Massadonious1]

I know the real reason BioWare did the whole non armor thing. I'm not going to pretend like my "explanation" is the correct one.



But, I guess I was hoping that people could understand beliving that they could of made scientifical or technological advances in this, and other areas in the near future is certainly better that plugging your ears and pretending it isn't even possible in the first place.



Science fiction writers need a little leeway on these sort of things, or they could never make a plauisble fictional universe, because they would always be conforming to current standards.



Take Star Wars, for example. In all the media that I have seen or read, there have been a few instances of Jedi and/or troopers being out in a vaccum or underwater with about as much protection as ME2 characters wear in spaceships and such. It's never truly explained how they do such things, but is it so bad to just believe that they were able to do it because they were Jedi, or are strong in the Force or some such? Every tiny lore hole needs to be plugged in to make such mediums enjoyable?

[GothamLord]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Take Star Wars, for example. In all the media that I have seen or read, there have been a few instances of Jedi and/or troopers being out in a vaccum or underwater with about as much protection as ME2 characters wear in spaceships and such. It's never truly explained how they do such things, but is it so bad to just believe that they were able to do it because they were Jedi, or are strong in the Force or some such? Every tiny lore hole needs to be plugged in to make such mediums enjoyable?

Some people like to enjoy entertainment for just that.  Entertainment and however long suspension of disbelief they can get out of it.  Other people seem to get their enjoyment out of going through it with a fine tooth comb, finding every little flaw or hole and then trying to plug it. If it cant be plug there are then those that seem to enjoy showing off these small unfillable holes by enlarging them  and then jumping around shouting with large red flashing arrows, thinking that fact that they bring it to everyones attention they have somehow "won" something. 

*shrugs* 

[TJSolo]

GothamLord wrote...
The codex does not also go into in-depth detail on how every little thing works either. It explains alot but it cant be expected to explain everything. Maybe there is some scientifc explanation for how Jack is able to run around in a questionable enviroment.  Just cause the game doesnt hold our hand and explain it, doesnt mean one cant be formed, by shoving in those real world science facts again. Unless the codex clearly says "..it is impossible for a human being to existence for more than ten minutes in a questionable vacuum enviornment without a full eviromental suit. No other means of protection exist."   there is the chance to explain it away.

The codex explains biotics and barriers really well, the limitations and uses. Biotics do not protect against slow moving objects, radiation, or tempurature. Any explanation you have for it will contradict the codex in this regard which is fine for you. It still does not make the inconsistency go away though. There isn't a need for the codex to get that explicit. Since you are so keen on the intro(before and after the Joker part), it should be obvious being in space without proper protection is a concern; the time frame is just you being argumentative.
What real world facts am I shoving into this game and upon you right now? none, get it right.

[KitsuneRommel]

TJSolo wrote...

The codex explains biotics and barriers really well, the limitations and uses. Biotics do not protect against slow moving objects, radiation, or tempurature. Any explanation you have for it will contradict the codex in this regard which is fine for you. It still does not make the inconsistency go away though. There isn't a need for the codex to get that explicit. Since you are so keen on the intro(before and after the Joker part), it should be obvious being in space without proper protection is a concern; the time frame is just you being argumentative.
What real world facts am I shoving into this game and upon you right now? none, get it right.

Biotic field held off the bugs in ME2. Not to mention every time I use the Singularity or Unity powers I REALLY have to suspend my disbelief. Was there a codex entry describing how spectres can resurrect people?

[GothamLord]

TJSolo wrote...

The codex explains biotics and barriers really well, the limitations and uses. Biotics do not protect against slow moving objects, radiation, or tempurature. Any explanation you have for it will contradict the codex in this regard which is fine for you. It still does not make the inconsistency go away though. There isn't a need for the codex to get that explicit. Since you are so keen on the intro(before and after the Joker part), it should be obvious being in space without proper protection is a concern; the time frame is just you being argumentative.
What real world facts am I shoving into this game and upon you right now? none, get it right.

Yes it explains biotics and barriers.  Good for it.  But maybe it doesnt explain  Enviro-Skin (I'm making it up for this example) a new tech available that just came out.  Its transparent and functions as a vac suit for low risk enviroments outside normal range.  Its not in the codex , it doesnt mean it doesnt exist.   Thats my point. The codex can preach for 3 days worth of text on biotics.  No one is saying that has to be the throw away excuse for it. It can be ANYTHING outside of what says doesnt work until something says nothing but a VAC suit works.  Do you understand what I'm saying??  If they says shes using biotics *in game* in place of the suit, its a contradiction.  If they say *nothing in game*, its open for anything outside of what the codex says doesnt work. 

Modifié par GothamLord, 08 mai 2010 - 09:09 .

[TJSolo]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I know the real reason BioWare did the whole non armor thing. I'm not going to pretend like my "explanation" is the correct one.

They want to retain the characterers uniqueness. A bad reason and armor could have been costum designed for them just like the breathers. This reason is extremely cartoony.

Science fiction writers need a little leeway on these sort of things, or they could never make a plauisble fictional universe, because they would always be conforming to current standards.

Sci-fi gets less leeway since the goal is to create a universe that is based on science rules but incorporate fiction in some aspects.

Take Star Wars, for example. In all the media that I have seen or read, there have been a few instances of Jedi and/or troopers being out in a vaccum or underwater with about as much protection as ME2 characters wear in spaceships and such. It's never truly explained how they do such things, but is it so bad to just believe that they were able to do it because they were Jedi, or are strong in the Force or some such? Every tiny lore hole needs to be plugged in to make such mediums enjoyable?

I would like examples. As I have only watched the movies and played some games. I would find this inconsistency funnier as Star Wars actually  acknowledged the dangers of vacuums with the creation of species that are noted to live in a vacuum.

[TJSolo]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I know the real reason BioWare did the whole non armor thing. I'm not going to pretend like my "explanation" is the correct one.

They want to retain the characterers uniqueness. A bad reason and armor could have been costum designed for them just like the breathers. This reason is extremely cartoony.

Science fiction writers need a little leeway on these sort of things, or they could never make a plauisble fictional universe, because they would always be conforming to current standards.

Sci-fi gets less leeway since the goal is to create a universe that is based on science rules but incorporate fiction in some aspects.

Take Star Wars, for example. In all the media that I have seen or read, there have been a few instances of Jedi and/or troopers being out in a vaccum or underwater with about as much protection as ME2 characters wear in spaceships and such. It's never truly explained how they do such things, but is it so bad to just believe that they were able to do it because they were Jedi, or are strong in the Force or some such? Every tiny lore hole needs to be plugged in to make such mediums enjoyable?

I would like examples. As I have only watched the movies and played some games. I would find this inconsistency funnier as Star Wars actually  acknowledged the dangers of vacuums with the creation of species that are noted to live in a vacuum.

[Massadonious1]

Well, the most recent example would be from their Clone Wars cartoon that runs on Cartoon Network. A Jedi Master (Plo Koon, I think his name was. Not sure what kind of alien he was but it did look like they wear natural rebreather masks) exits an escape pod to fight some droids that are looking to bust the saftey glass. A couple of clone troopers go with him, and while they are wearing those Stormtrooper-ish combat suits, all of them were clearly concerned about running out of air, regardless if their pod was breached or not.

[GothamLord]

TJSolo wrote...

They want to retain the characterers uniqueness. A bad reason and armor could have been costum designed for them just like the breathers. This reason is extremely cartoony.

I'll take cartoony over everyone looking like this...

I would like examples. As I have only watched the movies and played some games. I would find this inconsistency funnier as Star Wars actually  acknowledged the dangers of vacuums with the creation of species that are noted to live in a vacuum.

Wasnt there something about this with the Phantom Menance and them swimming down to the underwater city.  I'm not sure about the vacuum issue with Star Wars.  After Episode II I lost pretty much all desire to continue to have any connection with the world. Havent read any books or other material to help on this one. 

[TJSolo]

Don't see the Halo armor as been relative to ME, as that is an extreme not being asked for.

Please keep using your ME2 intro analogy and look at Kaiden/Ash/Liara for good unique armors.

[GothamLord]

TJSolo wrote...

Don't see the Halo armor as been relative to ME, as that is an extreme not being asked for.
Please keep using your ME2 intro analogy and look at Kaiden/Ash/Liara for good unique armors.

Its a example of everyone in armor with a slight custom design to tell them apart.  I dont see how the point of the picture is hard to understand. You stated you wanted consistancy. Everyone is similar fashioned VAC-suits would make the most sense for being accurate.

Kaidan running around in pink armor was rather amusing

[TJSolo]

GothamLord wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Don't see the Halo armor as been relative to ME, as that is an extreme not being asked for.
Please keep using your ME2 intro analogy and look at Kaiden/Ash/Liara for good unique armors.

Its a example of everyone in armor with a slight custom design to tell them apart.  I dont see how the point of the picture is hard to understand. You stated you wanted consistancy. Everyone is similar fashioned VAC-suits would make the most sense for being accurate.

Kaidan running around in pink armor was rather amusing

Consistency in the ME franchise. Not some stupid attempt to reach out to a different game franchise for their consistency.
Thanks for the reminder how inept you are in actually keeping within the points.

[GothamLord]

TJSolo wrote...

Consistency in the ME franchise. Not some stupid attempt to reach out to a different game franchise for their consistency.
Thanks for the reminder how inept you are in actually keeping within the points.

And thank you again for showing how quick you are to totally miss the point as it apparently goes sailing over you head once more.

[Massadonious1]

Was there ever any indication (besides the obvious worlds with environmental hazards) in ME1 that they needed to wear their full combat suits at all times, or are you making the same "It makes sense" assumption that we're making?



Aside from being on the moon, were they ever even in full vaccums at all?

[GothamLord]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Aside from being on the moon, were they ever even in full vaccums at all?

Bring Down the Sky DLC?? 

[Zaisha_temp]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Was there ever any indication (besides the obvious worlds with environmental hazards) in ME1 that they needed to wear their full combat suits at all times, or are you making the same "It makes sense" assumption that we're making?

Aside from being on the moon, were they ever even in full vaccums at all?

Fighting Geth on the outside of the citadel. Some side missions on airless moons/planets.

[exxxed]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Was there ever any indication (besides the obvious worlds with environmental hazards) in ME1 that they needed to wear their full combat suits at all times, or are you making the same "It makes sense" assumption that we're making?

Aside from being on the moon, were they ever even in full vaccums at all?

 No, they rather went in combat wearing cat-suits and swimsuits instead of fully loaded tactical armor based on their need or skills (heavy/medium/light).

 The only thing that bothers me is that BioWare is so stuck up about it, i mean come on, you could keep the characters unique, BUT, when the situation requires it they would put on a personalized full-body armor (ex. Jack: i could see her wearing the light version of the Gladiator armor from ME1) like the Derelict Reaper mission or the Collector Vessel/Base.

 It's all about immersion, same as the bloody load screens every ten minutes...

 Cheers and sorry for the off-topic!