17 respuestas en este tema

[bas273]

!ME1/ME2 spoilers and some minor Redemption spoilers!
First of all: I love Mass Effect 2. It's the best game I've ever played (well maybe it's a tie with ME1 ). I can overlook the bugs and the fact that this game isn't perfect because it's such a great game.
There's only one thing that has annoyed me ever since I played this game for the first time and I hope to find answers on this forum. I'm talking about the Lazarus Project.

The Normandy gets destroyed
I love the Normandy, it helped me destroy Sovereign and I used it to explore the entire galaxy in ME1. I like the beginning of ME2, where the Normandy gets destroyed, because I wasn't expecting it and it was even a bit emotional. After hundreds of hours in ME1 I just felt attached to my ship . The attack itself is a bit sudden though. Shepard and his crew are randomly hunting for Geth and suddenly the Collector Ship appears and blasts the Normandy to pieces. The entire crew survives except for Shepard who decides to be the hero (what if you're a Renegade Shepard who doesn't care about your crew? This intro sucks for role-players) and save Joker. The whole scene is still nicely done and I felt really excited. Mainly because I prefer to go Paragon so most of my Shepard characters don't have a problem with saving Joker.
So... the Normandy explodes and Shepard survives, for a while. He floats around in space and his helmet is damaged, so he dies because of a lack of oxygen. Later on you see how he enters the atmosphere of a planet (probably Alchera) and his body is aflame.

Shepard's body is recovered, Project Lazarus
I read some articles on the Wikia and the Redemption comic. Liara delivers Shepard's body to Cerberus and they initiate Project Lazarus. Shepard is dead (he was even missing a leg, Redemption issue #4) but they still manage to revive him.
It just feels... weird. I don't want to play as a cyborg in ME2 and ME3. If Shepard would be in a comatose and they needed two years to wake him up, fine. But he was DEAD. Project Lazarus basically means that they can use science to bring someone back to life, which could cause some religious discussion but please don't do that in this topic . It feels unrealistic. It's like Bioware needed this project to explain the character import feature.
According to the Wiki:
it involved attaching cybernetic implants to reconstruct the
Commander's skeleton, reconstruction of the skin, and fluids to restart
the blood flow and internal organs

Conclusion (if you don't want to read the text wall )
While I love the 'Normandy gets destroyed' scene, I dislike the fact that Shepard is dead and not in a comatose or anything. This makes Project Lazarus feel very unrealistic and I don't want to play as some sort of cyborg. I also expected more answers in ME2 regarding Project Lazarus (maybe in ME3, but they should've been in ME2 imo).
What do you think? Do you accept the fact that this is how Bioware explains the 'import a character' feature and that you can bring someone back to life with science? 

[Inquisitor Recon]

I haven't read the Redemption comics, but the whole Lazarus Project seemed like a stupid way to advance the plot two years. I had figured Shepard was 99% dead, but in truth he was 100% dead? The brain doesn't even work in a way that you could just "reboot" it like that and have all of your memories. You would just get a zombie Shepard who would be useless against the collectors.



They should have gone with the 99% dead route, more believable.

[bas273]

^ agreed, thnx for your reply

I'm just curious why Bioware chose to let him die. I don't care if he gets heavily injured or in a coma. But he died and it feels like an excuse for the import your character feature. What's wrong with a comatose? That would've made things so much easier. It would still be dramatic and you minimize the chance of religious discussions (people who dislike the fact that they can resurrect someone with science). It's also better for RPing.

[Inquisitor Recon]

To be honest TIM finding a scroll of resurrection would be just as believable to me. But I doubt Bioware will try to go back and better clarify things.

And if Shepard was really dead wouldn't everybody be going "hey Shepard, what was being dead like?" Which you couldn't answer because Bioware didn't go beyond Shepard's air supply cutting out.

Editado por ReconTeam, 07 mayo 2010 - 10:44 .

[Major Crackhead]

Shepard may have died...

But gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology.

[AlexXIV]

EvilCecil4th wrote...

Shepard may have died...

But gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology.

Sadly though we don't have the technology to grow hair on a bald head yet (see Pressley, Harkin).

I think it is probably asked too much of a Bioware game to make more sense than a TV ad.

[SalsaDMA]

EvilCecil4th wrote...

Shepard may have died...

But gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology.

Resurecting dead threads seems to be something else people have the technology to do...

[CroGamer002]

Who made Lazarus Project on this thread?

[Valikdu]

There was a hole.

[didymos1120]

EvilCecil4th wrote...

Shepard may have died...

But gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology.

So, you necroed an old thread in order to necro an old joke.  Whoa.  That's, like, totally meta.

Editado por didymos1120, 17 abril 2011 - 10:27 .

[jbadm04]

ME2 and the ressurection happens prior to Redemption, so I do not consider the comic "canon" as far as it concers the ressurection....
Lets face it, we know absolutely nothing. Liara recoverred Sheps body from the Shadowbroker, thats it. Shep got spaced, but still wears an environmental suit. All we see is an oxygen leakage, so most likely Shep "died" of suffocation (and not exposition to vacuum). When the body stops functioning, it stops fueling the environmental suit with heat, and the suit stops working too -> snap freeze, most likely conserving Sheps body. We dont know if Shep hit the planet, nor if the Commander even entered "an" atmosphere, high orbit, low orbit? We dont know. Does the planet even have an atmosphere, and if so, is it "dense" enough so the attricion is going to develop enough heat to disintegrate the body? What do we know about the env. suit? You know, oiled enough (just as a matter of speach), there would be no attriction at all and so no heat. Would going planetside realy turn the body into a puddle of blood and grease (as my granny used to say)? We know a person can fall down a realy long way and survive it... Nevertheless, Jacob says "you were just meat and tubes", so MAYBE there is just a pile of organic material, but Shep wears the helmet, so its very possible the brain survived this intact.
So what do we also know? By todays standards we can revive "dead" people too, Im not 100% sure, but the person who got revived after the longest period of dead is about 1hr. If so, why shouldnt it be possible to revive even after a couple of days? We do not know how long Shep is realy "gone"... there is no timescale between the destruction of the Normandy and the beginning of the Lazarus project. Btw there is still MediGel, by todays standards, it is magic. We have no idea what it could turn into, or what the ME universe could do with all the bioengineering. We can assume the ME universe is able to grow living cells, augment them with the right dna, and assemble them to a body. Whatever is missing, is replaced by tech (nano technology).
You people hold on the "Sci" part way too much, comparing it to what you know about the tech of the first decade of the 21st century, in the wake forgeting about ME, and not even a bit on the "Fiction"
To OP: rescuing Joker have nothing to do with paragon/renegade. Shepard is still a navy commander and the acting captain of the Normandy, maybe not on the list anymore, but in mind, you dont lose that sort of attitute that fast. And you know the drill: the captain leaves the sinking ship as last person, or goes down with it. (and maybe you get the wrong idea about paragon/renegade at all, renegade isnt about a selfish ****** and paragon not about an "everyone is more important then me" idiot)

[Major Crackhead]

didymos1120 wrote...

EvilCecil4th wrote...

Shepard may have died...

But gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology.

So, you necroed an old thread in order to necro an old joke.  Whoa.  That's, like, totally meta.

Absolutely, over the last eleven months, I poured virtually unlimited resources into reviving this thread.

Editado por EvilCecil4th, 17 abril 2011 - 05:35 .

[glasgoo21]

It was done s that you can change the look of your character if you felt like

[Rekkampum]

SalsaDMA wrote...

EvilCecil4th wrote...

Shepard may have died...

But gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology.

Resurecting dead threads seems to be something else people have the technology to do...

Ah, "dead threads". We have dismissed those claims.

[scotty0927]

jbadm04 wrote...

ME2 and the ressurection happens prior to Redemption, so I do not consider the comic "canon" as far as it concers the ressurection....
Lets face it, we know absolutely nothing. Liara recoverred Sheps body from the Shadowbroker, thats it. Shep got spaced, but still wears an environmental suit. All we see is an oxygen leakage, so most likely Shep "died" of suffocation (and not exposition to vacuum). When the body stops functioning, it stops fueling the environmental suit with heat, and the suit stops working too -> snap freeze, most likely conserving Sheps body. We dont know if Shep hit the planet, nor if the Commander even entered "an" atmosphere, high orbit, low orbit? We dont know. Does the planet even have an atmosphere, and if so, is it "dense" enough so the attricion is going to develop enough heat to disintegrate the body? What do we know about the env. suit? You know, oiled enough (just as a matter of speach), there would be no attriction at all and so no heat. Would going planetside realy turn the body into a puddle of blood and grease (as my granny used to say)? We know a person can fall down a realy long way and survive it... Nevertheless, Jacob says "you were just meat and tubes", so MAYBE there is just a pile of organic material, but Shep wears the helmet, so its very possible the brain survived this intact.
So what do we also know? By todays standards we can revive "dead" people too, Im not 100% sure, but the person who got revived after the longest period of dead is about 1hr. If so, why shouldnt it be possible to revive even after a couple of days? We do not know how long Shep is realy "gone"... there is no timescale between the destruction of the Normandy and the beginning of the Lazarus project. Btw there is still MediGel, by todays standards, it is magic. We have no idea what it could turn into, or what the ME universe could do with all the bioengineering. We can assume the ME universe is able to grow living cells, augment them with the right dna, and assemble them to a body. Whatever is missing, is replaced by tech (nano technology).
You people hold on the "Sci" part way too much, comparing it to what you know about the tech of the first decade of the 21st century, in the wake forgeting about ME, and not even a bit on the "Fiction"
To OP: rescuing Joker have nothing to do with paragon/renegade. Shepard is still a navy commander and the acting captain of the Normandy, maybe not on the list anymore, but in mind, you dont lose that sort of attitute that fast. And you know the drill: the captain leaves the sinking ship as last person, or goes down with it. (and maybe you get the wrong idea about paragon/renegade at all, renegade isnt about a selfish ****** and paragon not about an "everyone is more important then me" idiot)

There is an old saying in the EMS community,  "they're not dead until they're warm and dead"

[Sarenarcturus27]

From the first time I saw the intro with the Lazarus project, I knew it was more than a clever way to carry on the story or explain a two year gap. If you consider the first Mass Effect, Shepard receives a vision from the Protheon artifact. He/She alone carries a message about the destruction of all sentient life in the galaxy, in essence an end times prophecy. Most people don't believe the prophecy, and scoff. But in the end, Shepard saves all races from doom. There really is no argument that He/She is the most important person to have ever lived in the history of the mass effect galaxy. So being both a prophet, and a savior, there was only one more step to developing the Shepard character as someone with dare I say a "divine destiny". Death, followed by resurrection. The name Shepard has connotations itself, a protector of a flock if you like. Protector, prophet, savior, death, and resurrection. If you step back and look at it, there seem to be some key elements to the story that are more inspired by spirituality than by science fiction. Sure, the Sci-Fi is a tool to tell the story, and it does work a lot better than magic. But the sci-fi is just a vehicle to carry a story with spiritual elements that are deep rooted in human history. You see this sort of thing in Star Wars as well, and The Matrix. They are sci-fi stories, but the component that drives them isn't secular. Just my opinion.