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[Sarah1281]

Irving's Mistake...

I followed another apprentice through supposed secret maneuvers today, and exposed her tendency towards blood magic. The environment of the tower is such that certain modes of thought are encouraged, both for good and ill. The students think we toy with them. The truth is far more intricate and directed. Deviant traits must be exposed early, or the whole of the Circle suffers.



Uldred has been very helpful in identifying the markers to look for. His skills at misdirection are admirable. I daresay that the apprentices would be shocked at his ability to manipulate them. I must organize a retreat such that the other enchanters can benefit from his skills.



--Excerpt from the journal of First Enchanter Irving

So he didn't ASK Uldred to, Uldred just took advantage.

[Willowhugger]

My DN was even more surprised since she didn't actually acknowledge Surface authority so why would she be an Orlesian spy?

Yeah. Accusing a City Elf, a Teryn's son, a Daelish, and a Dwarf of being Orlesian spies is just nonsensical. I think even Loghain had to know that.

What was weird was that he was even still alive. Why not just kill him like he did the Couslands?

Given what he did to the other noble's child, I imagined he was going to torture Vaughn to death. It's just our rotten luck he didn't do it sooner. While Howe wanted to seize the lands, I wonder if Loghain let it happen for losing control of the situation.

[Sarah1281]

Yeah. Accusing a City Elf, a Teryn's son, a Daelish, and a Dwarf of being Orlesian spies is just nonsensical. I think even Loghain had to know that.

The city elf I could see as it could be recruited from the Orlesian Alienage but the others...wow he's paranoid.

[Willowhugger]

17. Howe actually BELIEVES that the Couslands are traitors because Fergus married an Orlesian woman.



Seriously, that's some major hatred there.

[Sarah1281]

Willowhugger wrote...

17. Howe actually BELIEVES that the Couslands are traitors because Fergus married an Orlesian woman.

Seriously, that's some major hatred there.

Except she's Antivan. MAJOR hatred.

[askanec]

You don't have to travel anywhere to become an Orlesian spy. All it takes is someone working for the Orlesian interest to bribe or threaten you into working for them.



In fact, people with an impeccable reputation as a patriot would make the best spies; everyone trusts them and nobody would suspect them. Just look at Loghain. You accuse the best war general of Ferelden of betraying his king and it's no wonder nobody really believes you.

[Willowhugger]

Except she's Antivan. MAJOR hatred.

She is?

She sounds Orlesian to me.

[Sarah1281]

Oriana: In Antiva, a woman fighting in battle would be ... unthinkable.



Fergus: Is that so? I always heard Antivan women were dangerous.



Oriana: With kindness and poison only, my husband.



Fergus: This from the woman who serves me my tea.

[TotoroTori]

Willowhugger wrote...

Except she's Antivan. MAJOR hatred.

She is?

She sounds Orlesian to me.

Um she was from Antiva, she even mentions it talking about how Antiva women wern't deadly with weapons but poisons...

Sounds like Howe was just a bigot...

[sassperella]

thing that made me go huh? I think has been mentioned in another thread was in the human noble origin. When you go into the treasury room during howe's assault it's locked and the guards are dead inside the locked room.

[Willowhugger]

So noted, I never got that line of dialogue regarding her.



Damn, there really is NO reason to think Fergus and Bryce were Orlesian sympathetic.

[Sarah1281]

Willowhugger wrote...

So noted, I never got that line of dialogue regarding her.

Damn, there really is NO reason to think Fergus and Bryce were Orlesian sympathetic.

Well, it's only if you're playing a HNF so if you just played a male you wouldn't.

[Sabariel]

Bann Teagan marrying Bella/Kaitlyn. The first is a "huh?". The second is kind of.... creepy.

[Chuvvy]

Willowhugger wrote...

So noted, I never got that line of dialogue regarding her.

Damn, there really is NO reason to think Fergus and Bryce were Orlesian sympathetic.

Your forgetting that Bryce went to Orlais. ONCE! If that's not enough eveidence I'm not sure what is.

[Sarah1281]

Slidell505 wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

So noted, I never got that line of dialogue regarding her.

Damn, there really is NO reason to think Fergus and Bryce were Orlesian sympathetic.

Your forgetting that Bryce went to Orlais. ONCE! If that's not enough eveidence I'm not sure what is.

And some moron thought he was King which he felt was amusing enough to repeat! If that's not evidence of high treason then I don't know what is.

[sleepingbelow]

Willowhugger wrote...
Yeah. Accusing a City Elf, a Teryn's son, a Daelish, and a Dwarf of being Orlesian spies is just nonsensical. I think even Loghain had to know that.

Okay, I'm not saying it is 100% logical, but I feel like Loghain might suspect anybody that was introduced to him by Duncan might be Orlesian sympathetic.  He originally met Duncan as part of a retinue of Orlesian Wardens which contained humans, elves, and dwarves.  He might still regard Duncan as Orlesian despite Duncan being of Fereldan/Rivaini heritage.  

I don't think he ever got a satisfactory explanation for the shenanigans that happened with Maric at Kinloch in The Calling.  He let the matter drop, but if the Warden was threatening Fereldan's safety (in his mind), it would probably reignite old suspicions about Duncan and anybody connected to Duncan.

It's still paranoid, but not habanero paranoid.  It is jalapeno paranoid.

Modifié par sleepingbelow, 08 mai 2010 - 05:58 .

[ArawnNox]

Sabariel wrote...

Bann Teagan marrying Bella/Kaitlyn. The first is a "huh?". The second is kind of.... creepy.

When and how does this happen? I'm curious.

[Willowhugger]

17. Velanna's response to her sister getting kidnapped is to attack a bunch of merchant caravans, nevermind they were probably not armed. It's not even remotely able to be chalked up to confusion, but is just flat out terrorism.



18. King Calian really chose a surprisingly undefensible position in Ostagar. The fact he directly chose to engage them one on one is just plain insane tactics. A harrying strategy would have worked much better.



19. Empress Celene may have actually been talking about wedding Calian to a daughter as opposed to herself.



20. Why didn't the Grey Warden try and send Calian's body back to the Queen in Return to Ostagar? It seems like the best thing to do for him. Then again, it's possible he was pretty rank by then so I may have answered my own question.

[Willowhugger]

When and how does this happen? I'm curious.

An epilogue when you give her 500 sovereigns,  She becomes a successful businesswoman.  I assumed she was 17 then, so when she's 20 something, it's not so creepy.

21. Does anyone get annoyed when you can't present ALL the evidence at the Landsmeet and Loghain cuts in about his daughter?

22. Is it just me or do do Tegan and Isolde have an unusually close relationship for in-laws?  There's a weird vibe there.

23. If you talk to Loghain, you find that the Mac Tir Teryn is a piece of crap.  When did he get the Gwaren Teyrn?

24. Amusingly, if you realize Loghain spent all of his time away from home at Denerim then Anora becomes the classic model of the Daddy's girl desperate to impress an absentee father.

25. Is Anora actually Loghain's daughter?  I hate to ask but she's VERY VERY blond and he's VERY VERY dark.  Did no one question that or is she a bottle blond in the Middle Ages?

Modifié par Willowhugger, 08 mai 2010 - 06:07 .

[Sarah1281]

19. Empress Celene may have actually been talking about wedding Calian to a daughter as opposed to herself.

Empress Celene never actually mentioned marriage at all. She just said a more permanent alliance which, while marriage is certainly one way to do that, does not necessarily man he was planning that. After all, if he were willing to put Anora aside in order to cement an alliance with Orlaiswhy would he be fighting with Eamon about how he wouldn't put her aside to find someone younger and presumably more fertile? If he married a younger Orlesian noblewoman it would accomplish two goals. Yeah, Loghain takes the letters being together as they're having an affair but this is Loghain on Orlais. He thinks you're an Orlesian, remember? Not entirely rational on the matter. And where else was Cailan supposed to keep the three important letters he had with him? Was he supposed to find another lockbox so no one got the wrong idea?

20. Why didn't the Grey Warden try and send Calian's body back to the Queen in Return to Ostagar? It seems like the best thing to do for him. Then again, it's possible he was pretty rank by then so I may have answered my own question.

How would they have really managed that? Either it was before the Landsmeet and thus they're declared traitors who can't really get a dead body to Anora (and given tht Loghain wants to feed him to the wolves if he gets ahole of the body he'd just trash it) or it was afterwards and thus there's no time.

23. If you talk to Loghain, you find that the Mac Tir Teryn is a piece of crap. When did he get the Gwaren Teyrn?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Gwaren is the teynir like Highever is the Cousland teynir. It refers to the land, not the surname of the noble governing it. Eamon and Teagan, or instance, are Guerrins not Redcliffes or Rainsfere.

[sleepingbelow]

Sarah1281 wrote...
How would they have really managed that? Either it was before the Landsmeet and thus they're declared traitors who can't really get a dead body to Anora (and given tht Loghain wants to feed him to the wolves if he gets ahole of the body he'd just trash it) or it was afterwards and thus there's no time. 

They could just leave it on the palace doorstep, ring the doorbell and then run like hell.

[ArawnNox]

on 18, Cailen wasn't exactly a tactical genius. You'd be surprised how often leaders do stupid things that seem like military tactics 101. Like the civil war battle where the general abandoned the high ground to assault a hill and got his troops wiped out.

On that note, also, I knew I was in for trouble when Cailen uttered the words "Bore" and "Strategies" in the same sentence.

on 20, its tradition to burn bodies rather than bury them in Ferelden/Thedas, less the corpses become possessed by demons. And really, since RtO can happen at any time, theres a good chance that you and your merry band are still on the run. Why risk sending the body back to Denerim. Sounds like an opportunity for Loghain to concoct more conspiracy tripe.

21: Politics, you gotta pick the right arguments and be ready for counter arguments. Like any debate. But yes, Loghain forces the issue too much to let you finish, but he's kindof on the edge at that point, imo

22: Not really. Its her husband's brother. Whats wrong with a close family?

23: I'm still working on Stolen Throne, but I bet it happens then. Its the first city the rebel army under Maric takes.

25: I'm unaware of who her mother is supposed to be, but why cant she have inherited it from her mother or a recessive gene on the Mac Tir side? I'm blond but most of my immediate family has dark hair.

[Sabariel]

Willowhugger wrote...

When and how does this happen? I'm curious.

An epilogue when you give her 500 sovereigns,  She becomes a successful businesswoman.  I assumed she was 17 then, so when she's 20 something, it's not so creepy.

21. Does anyone get annoyed when you can't present ALL the evidence at the Landsmeet and Loghain cuts in about his daughter?

22. Is it just me or do do Tegan and Isolde have an unusually close relationship for in-laws?  There's a weird vibe there.

23. If you talk to Loghain, you find that the Mac Tir Teryn is a piece of crap.  When did he get the Gwaren Teyrn?

24. Amusingly, if you realize Loghain spent all of his time away from home at Denerim then Anora becomes the classic model of the Daddy's girl desperate to impress an absentee father.

25. Is Anora actually Loghain's daughter?  I hate to ask but she's VERY VERY blond and he's VERY VERY dark.  Did no one question that or is she a bottle blond in the Middle Ages?

25. I'm a blonde and both my parents have dark hair (though they were both blondes as children). Maybe Loghain was a blond child or perhaps Anora's mother was blonde.

[BHRamsay]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Willowhugger wrote...

So noted, I never got that line of dialogue regarding her.

Damn, there really is NO reason to think Fergus and Bryce were Orlesian sympathetic.

Your forgetting that Bryce went to Orlais. ONCE! If that's not enough eveidence I'm not sure what is.

And some moron thought he was King which he felt was amusing enough to repeat! If that's not evidence of high treason then I don't know what is.

I like to believe that Mommy and Daddy Cousland might have been helping Calian's secret negtations for peace. There isn't an ingame reason to think so however , the idea just gives me a warm fuzzy.