40 réponses à ce sujet

[Mesker]

If the first enchanter is dead and Jowan is nowhere to be found despite releasing him from the cell.

I cant believe you were expected to know how to use the littany other than googling it after the event and when its too late.

Also whats the deal with major gameplay unlocks requiring a specific path of events out of many in other words sheer blind luck to access unless you google the plot/mechanics beforehand. Pretty crappy design.

If you're gonna force a speciality skill set in our face right from the start as something to work towards its somewhat retarded to find out down the road you cannot get it because you made the wrong choice in some arbitrary conversation several hours of gameplay ago.

Modifié par Mesker, 07 mai 2010 - 11:54 .

[Nooneyouknow13]

The Litany is automatically placed on your hotbar when you get it, and Wynne even tells you whne to use it.



That said, spec unlocks are also global if you can reload before you let Jowan out you can pay until you unlock, and then reload your current play through.

[caradoc2000]

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

The Litany is automatically placed on your hotbar when you get it

Only on PC

and Wynne even tells you whne to use it.

Provided you didn't kill her.

Modifié par caradoc2000, 08 mai 2010 - 01:09 .

[Wicked 702]

OP: I'm not 100% sure I understand what you are saying as there seem to be multiple issues in your post. Let me try my best. In regards to the Litany, it's made pretty clear through dialogue with NPCs like Niall in the Fade or Wynne what the litany is used for. Perhaps you just missed them? As far as spec unlocks go, this whole game is built upon the concept that your actions/choices have consequences. As such, you should not expect to be able to unlock everything in one play through. They intend for you to go through multiple times and make different choices. For example, you must personally play as a mage in order to unlock Blood Mage as a specialization.

I happen to like the way the game was designed. I found that very few conversations in the game were wholly arbitrary. You might make someone mad so they won't trade with you anymore or refuse to give you a quest or whatnot. It's certainly not perfect but you have to go in realizing that you're not going to be able to do it all in the same run. That's why specialization unlocks are permanent and carry over from character to character.

Modifié par Wicked 702, 08 mai 2010 - 01:08 .

[Skatlyle]

Maybe I am reading the post wrong but, I thought it was about unlocking blood mage. I assumed it was the conversation with the demon in the fade when rescuing Conner when you get the choice?

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Skatlyle wrote...

Maybe I am reading the post wrong but, I thought it was about unlocking blood mage. I assumed it was the conversation with the demon in the fade when rescuing Conner when you get the choice?

The OP is saying the Circle is dead and the bloodmage is gone, so there is no way to get into the fade for that in the first place.

[Nooneyouknow13]

caradoc2000 wrote...

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

The Litany is automatically placed on your hotbar when you get it

Only on PC

and Wynne even tells you whne to use it.

Provided you didn't kill her.

And according to the OP's profile, he's on PC.  Oh, and the story notes for his character also state he recruited Wynne after annulment, so...

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 08 mai 2010 - 02:33 .

[Mesker]

My hotbar was full so the littany did not appear on it.

The text implied it was a required item to overcome an otherwise in-completable area and therefore its use would be automatic or supremely obvious.

In no way did it tell you it was purely optional and had to be used at a specific, unobvious moment for the main purpose of unlocking something unrelated to the area later in the game.

Multiple story arcs leading to different results is great.

Locking a player out of major mechanics content because they took path 7 out of 11 and not path 3 out of 11 is incredibly bad design.

Modifié par Mesker, 08 mai 2010 - 10:22 .

[Mesker]

Caladhiel wrote...

It's not bad design, it's the point of the whole thing. The Bloodmage specialization isn't a major plot point, it's a bonus for your characters. If you chose the wrong path - tough luck. Next time you'll know better than to anull the Circle.

Its bad design in so far as its soured my experience of the game.

The first time you level up you see the 4 specializations and at some point you get an information tutorial about them. This presents the pretense of you working towards unlocking them as a standard progression of your character to look forward to.

Instead (at least for blood mage, i know others can be simply bought or gotten other ways) it comes down to you wondering where it is and having to freakin google the thing only to find out you didnt roll a double six on a key moment earler on.

Modifié par Mesker, 08 mai 2010 - 10:57 .

[Creature 1]

Mesker wrote...
If you're gonna force a speciality skill set in our face right from the start as something to work towards its somewhat retarded to find out down the road you cannot get it because you made the wrong choice in some arbitrary conversation several hours of gameplay ago.

So reload, go into the Fade, get blood magic, and then quit without saving and load up your most recent save.  If you unlock it, it's unlocked for all save games, so you should then be able to pick the specialty providing you have a point free.  If you used it on something else, get the respec mod. 

If you don't have any convenient saves, better luck next time. 

[TemjinGold]

I guess the OP would prefer that the 4 specs weren't shown to you from the start. That a spec only shows up when it is unlocked. That way, if he missed one, he won't even know it existed to begin with. And if he finds one, it would feel that much more special.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Mesker wrote...

My hotbar was full so the littany did not appear on it.

The text implied it was a required item to overcome an otherwise in-completable area and therefore its use would be automatic or supremely obvious.

In no way did it tell you it was purely optional and had to be used at a specific, unobvious moment for the main purpose of unlocking something unrelated to the area later in the game.

Multiple story arcs leading to different results is great.

Locking a player out of major mechanics content because they took path 7 out of 11 and not path 3 out of 11 is incredibly bad design.

The hotbar can be stretched to match the horizontal resolution for what it's worth. It was placed on the hot bar, you just never saw it.  Double clikc the end of the hotbar, and it'lls ctretch to it's maximum instantly.

To be honest, I didn't even know it was possible for the fight to go on long enough for Irving to be turned.

Also, the only reason Jowan is gone, is because you told him "Go, I never want to see you again." when you freed him. All you need to do to get Blood Mage is reload when you went into the Redcliffe Cellar, choose a different option when ending the conversation, and you're good to go.

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 08 mai 2010 - 08:34 .

[Wicked 702]

Mesker as others have mentioned, the Litany of Adralla has nothing to do with getting the Blood Mage specialization. While saving Irving and the circle was a potential option, you had other ways at your disposal of achieving your goals.

Basically, you made a bunch of choices. They ended up having consequences. As a result, you can't get Blood Mage yet. You have only yourself to blame to be honest. That's what this game is about, choice and consequences. It's not perfect and I don't want to mention why because that might be a spoiler to you, but it's pretty cool that you can't "do it all" in one go. It's more real that way.

[bandersnatch13]

missing out on quests and items due to human interaction choices is one thing and totally understandable, but missing out on a really cool class specialization because i chose to play a rogue is crap. i can learn other mage specializations. i can learn warrior specializations. there are plenty of demons and blood mages that you interact with who should be able to teach you. and there is no real reason why morrigan cant learn it, either. choosing a class isn't the same as killing or pissing off an NPC so it wont trade with you. the former shouldn't have any real effect on what you get in the game, any more then choosing your race or sex.



that said, it's still a great game. I'm just disappointed in the one aspect. personally, i can't play games like this more then twice because you've already done pretty much everything. instead, you're just playing another hundred hours for a few trivial achievements and trinkets. and i was thinking about going warrior as my second play through.

[DragonOfWhiteThunder]

In context, I think the way the Blood Mage specialization was handled worked pretty well. Yes, there are other demons and blood mages than the one who will make the bargain with you in the Fade, but none of them want to bargain with you - you have nothing of value to offer the demons, and the blood mages attack you on sight. About the only other place it would work is the Tevinter blood mage you encounter, and by then you've probably already gotten both specializations for your character already.



Wynne and Irving wouldn't bargain with the demon in the fade for obvious reasons, whether requesting specialized blood magic or not. Morrigan might be more apt to attempt to learn blood magic, since she's already apostate, but her experiences with Flemeth I imagine would make her rather wary of deals with demons. With the story as-written, I just don't see it working out. Perhaps if you could have given the Scrolls of Banastor to Morrigan to study, or found his writings in the recesses of the Circle tower, or had a blood mage companion, then yes, an alternate way of unlocking this specialization would work. As written, no.

[Lord Gremlin]

Hm. What's the problem anyway? Blood mage specialization can be unlocked by making a deal with several demons/NPCs in the game.

And about the Litany... I'm on PS3, I've never used it but saved the first enchanter and Circle anyway. It's used automatically on consoles I suppose?

[Arthur Cousland]

You have to manually use the Litany on consoles, just like on pc. The battle with Uldred probably has to go on for a long time for Irving to be turned, as he's never been turned during any of my playthroughs, though I've always tried to use the Litany when prompted.



Blood mage can only be unlocked via the desire demon while trying to rescue Connor during Arl of Redcliffe, and with the pc being a mage and going into the fade themself.

[MindYerBeak]

There are 3 ways of becoming a Blood Mage. One way is in the Brecilian Forest...

[Sylvius the Mad]

Choices have consequences. Some of those consequences aren't good.

Would you honestly like the game never to offer any negative consequences to anything you do in the game? Because that's what your complaint requires.

[DragonOfWhiteThunder]

MindYerBeak wrote...

There are 3 ways of becoming a Blood Mage. One way is in the Brecilian Forest...

Could you elaborate? I wasn't aware that any methods to unlock Blood Mage other than the Fade existed. A quick look on the Wiki reveals there's a manual you can purchase if you have Awakening, but I'm not finding anything about the Brecilian Forest.

[Wicked 702]

There aren't. He's wrong.

Origins has only one method of obtaining Blood Mage and it's already been detailed here.

[Lord Gremlin]

DragonOfWhiteThunder wrote...

MindYerBeak wrote...

There are 3 ways of becoming a Blood Mage. One way is in the Brecilian Forest...

Could you elaborate? I wasn't aware that any methods to unlock Blood Mage other than the Fade existed. A quick look on the Wiki reveals there's a manual you can purchase if you have Awakening, but I'm not finding anything about the Brecilian Forest.

Well, here's one method: in Circle tower you meet a possessed templar and a Desire demon. It's not far from Sloth demon's trap. You can make a deal with desire demon, so she leaves with her templar and teaches you to become a Blood Mage.

[FBG_Loke]

Wicked 702 wrote...

There aren't. He's wrong.
Origins has only one method of obtaining Blood Mage and it's already been detailed here.

So the BW guide in the pinned thread is wrong? It says:

There is also a way to unlock the Blood Mage completely unrelated to the
Redcliffe questline, namely the Elven Alianage. When you (eventually) get to the
bottom of the quarantine of the alianage, you'll find that the person that's
responsible is in fact a Blood Mage. He'll beg and grovel for this life, and you
can actually get him to teach you the Blood Mage specialization this way. Note
that most party member's won't like this one bit, and you'll lose some approval,
as opposed to the method above (if you do it right, that is).