45 réponses à ce sujet

[maxernst]

With all the vitriol directed at Anora and some of the other NPC's in the game, it surprises me that there's so little mention of Zathrian.  Of all the characters that you can do tasks for, Zathrian was the only one who pissed me off more than Branka.  Dishonest, manipulative creep, willing to sacrifice his own people for vengeance on the descendents of people long since dead.  I was so angry when I found out the truth.

[Wicked 702]

Maybe because he can eventually be convinced to do the right thing? The redemption? Maybe that's why people are more willing to forgive. Dunno....

I know my little mage here happily did his dirty deed for him....and then properly dispatched him for daring to try to use me as a pawn. Best of both worlds!

Modifié par Wicked 702, 08 mai 2010 - 01:23 .

[BigBad]

I think the reason people don't vocally hate on Zathrian so much is that he had a pretty good reason for his initial actions, i.e. summoning Witherfang in the first place. His blind irrational denials during the quest, however, are annoying.



Personally, I hate almost all of the Dalish, up to and including Lanaya, and I'd totally have the werewolves kill them if I ever play an evil character.

[Willowhugger]

Eh, Zatherian doesn't even hate humanity.



He hates the people who killed his family and their direct descendants who just attacked his people.

[maxernst]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Maybe because he can eventually be convinced to do the right thing? The redemption? Maybe that's why people are more willing to forgive. Dunno....

I know my little mage here happily did his dirty deed for him....and then properly dispatched him for daring to try to use me as a pawn. Best of both worlds!

Can he actually be convinced to?  I had to fight him and my coercion was pretty high...it seems to me he's "convinced" to do the right thing in the same way the slavers in the alienage are.

[Sarah1281]

Caring about what Zathrian did also requires caring about the Dalish so...

[Sarah1281]

maxernst wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

Maybe because he can eventually be convinced to do the right thing? The redemption? Maybe that's why people are more willing to forgive. Dunno....

I know my little mage here happily did his dirty deed for him....and then properly dispatched him for daring to try to use me as a pawn. Best of both worlds!

Can he actually be convinced to?  I had to fight him and my coercion was pretty high...it seems to me he's "convinced" to do the right thing in the same way the slavers in the alienage are.

Yes. Tell him to at least talk to the Lady and he will but he'll insist that he's not going to end the curse so you have to fight him. Then, after you beat him, he'll end the curse.

[maxernst]

Willowhugger wrote...

Eh, Zatherian doesn't even hate humanity.

He hates the people who killed his family and their direct descendants who just attacked his people.

And anybody who happens to get bitten by them, apparently.

[maxernst]

Sarah1281 wrote...

maxernst wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

Maybe because he can eventually be convinced to do the right thing? The redemption? Maybe that's why people are more willing to forgive. Dunno....

I know my little mage here happily did his dirty deed for him....and then properly dispatched him for daring to try to use me as a pawn. Best of both worlds!

Can he actually be convinced to?  I had to fight him and my coercion was pretty high...it seems to me he's "convinced" to do the right thing in the same way the slavers in the alienage are.

Yes. Tell him to at least talk to the Lady and he will but he'll insist that he's not going to end the curse so you have to fight him. Then, after you beat him, he'll end the curse.

Well yes, that's exactly what I did.  That strikes me more as forcing than convincing, though.
 

[askanec]

Zathrian can't let go of his vengeance. He cursed the humans, but vengeance has a way to come back and bite him in the ass. So he starts hating on the werewolves too. Rather than hating him, I find him pitiful.

[Sarah1281]

How is it forcing? Killing him will not end the curse and you have to talk him into it by saying things like 'Would you really let your clan die for this?' They can't force him to do it and if he doesn't they'd just end up killing him. He realizes he's held on to bitterness too long at that point, especially once the Lady says she'd welcome her end and even though he can't let go of his hatred in life he does so in death.

[thegreateski]

Because unlike (most of) the people you're thinking of . . . he actually (maybe) repents his actions.

Modifié par thegreateski, 08 mai 2010 - 01:42 .

[BHRamsay]

NM hating on Zathrian I want a hate thread for the Storyteller guy. That sarcastic ignorant useless pile has annoyed me EVERY time I play regardless of origin.

Whenever he starts up with his pity-the-poor-Dalish BS I want to slap him SO hard.

[Sarah1281]

BHRamsay wrote...

NM hating on Zathrian I want a hate thread for the Storyteller guy. That sarcastic ignorant useless pile has annoyed me EVERY time I play regardless of origin.
Whenever he starts up with his pity-the-poor-Dalish BS I want to slap him SO hard.

Does he ever let you tell a story? I never pick the 'can I tell you a story about my people' option because I'm afraid he'll say no and my frustration and not being able to kill him combined with Cammen's very existence will be enough to make me side with the werewolves.

[thegreateski]

Sarah1281 wrote...
I'm afraid he'll say no and my frustration and not being able to kill him combined with Cammen's very existence will be enough to make me side with the werewolves.

"Some other time Warden."

Something like that.

Modifié par thegreateski, 08 mai 2010 - 01:46 .

[Radahldo]

I dislike how the keeper assistant launches into some stupid poem when you click on her.

I also tried to go in that storage crate, for the first time, and saw that side of her.

Modifié par Radahldo, 08 mai 2010 - 01:49 .

[Sarah1281]

thegreateski wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
I'm afraid he'll say no and my frustration and not being able to kill him combined with Cammen's very existence will be enough to make me side with the werewolves.

"Some other time Warden."

Something like that.

What? That stupid...he has time to recite, again, the story of his people even though everyone's heard it fifty million times and to talk for hours about the werewolves but not to hear about you? And once you save them he says 'maybe one day you'll tell us about your people.' Did you already express an interest in that earlier? But he only promises he might listen 'someday'? Why do I spare these people again? 

[maxernst]

Yeath, the storyteller guy is annoying too, at least if you're human. But you don't really have to deal with him anyway. Same thing with Cammen and his girlfriend, you can just ignore them.



The other thing about Zathrian, I thought the real he didn't want to remove the curse was that it enabled him to unnaturally prolong his life, so the Dalish elves venerated him like no ordinary leader. It's only after he realizes you're going to kill him anyway that he ends the curse. He's a little like Flemeth except that the price for his life was paid by far more people.

[thegreateski]

I dislike how the keeper assistant launches into some stupid poem when you click on her.

I found it interesting myself.
A cultured person? Here? In the woods?

Same with that slaver in the Alienage . . . the one who tries to bargain with you.
"Wait . . . you actually want to try and negotiate? You're not hellbent on killing me? What a refreshing change of pace."

Modifié par thegreateski, 08 mai 2010 - 01:53 .

[Wicked 702]

Other people already answered the question posed to me. I would have said the same. All I can add is that after beating him he could still refuse to help you and go to his death knowing that the curse will never be broken if he really, really wanted to. He does actually choose to willingly give his life to end the curse. There's some sense of redemption anyway.

Modifié par Wicked 702, 08 mai 2010 - 01:58 .

[BigBad]

I hate Lanaya, but not for the poetry. I hate her because if you're a human, she all but blames you personally for the state of the elves, and if you tell her that you aren't responsible for what happened, she's all "Aren't you? You're human." Gee, thanks, ya racist ****. For all her talk about compromise and peace, she's still got that same Dalish chip on her shoulder that begs for a ****-slap. And if you're a dwarf and tell her that some humans regret and aren't all the same, she says "But even the ones who knew it was wrong did nothing." Why the hell should they? It's not like you guys helped when Orlais was getting sacked.

[MistressValkyrie]

Sarah1281 wrote...

BHRamsay wrote...

NM hating on Zathrian I want a hate thread for the Storyteller guy. That sarcastic ignorant useless pile has annoyed me EVERY time I play regardless of origin.
Whenever he starts up with his pity-the-poor-Dalish BS I want to slap him SO hard.

Does he ever let you tell a story? I never pick the 'can I tell you a story about my people' option because I'm afraid he'll say no and my frustration and not being able to kill him combined with Cammen's very existence will be enough to make me side with the werewolves.

I never really paid attention to Sarel until I went to him as a HN and he ripped into her non stop. Okay I get it, sucks for you Dalish.<_<

As for Zathrian, I don't hate him because he can be convinced to do the right thing. Plus from a RP standpoint my HN could sympathize with him because she was hellbent for revenge on Arl Howe. It opened her eyes that she couldn't allow herself to focus so much on her hate.

Me I don't mind him because he is voiced by Tim Russ who is awesome.

[Wicked 702]

Tuvok!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sarah1281]

BigBad wrote...

I hate Lanaya, but not for the poetry. I hate her because if you're a human, she all but blames you personally for the state of the elves, and if you tell her that you aren't responsible for what happened, she's all "Aren't you? You're human." Gee, thanks, ya racist ****. For all her talk about compromise and peace, she's still got that same Dalish chip on her shoulder that begs for a ****-slap. And if you're a dwarf and tell her that some humans regret and aren't all the same, she says "But even the ones who knew it was wrong did nothing." Why the hell should they? It's not like you guys helped when Orlais was getting sacked.

Not to mention that she 'suspected' the truth about the curse and ****es at you for getting Cammen and Gheyna together. If you convince Gheyna to accept him the she says he should have been a hunter first (as much as I hate Cammen, he does have a point about the forest being forbidden) and if you hunt something for Cammen and he claims it wandered into camp (plausible enough story but i doesn't explain why he thanks you for all you did in front of Gheyna. What were you supposed to have done? Drawn his attention to the creature he killed?) she somehow knows what really happened even though no one else does and says Cammen should have become a hunter on his own. How does she even know that?!?!

[BigBad]

Honestly, I just dislike fantasy elves in general. City elves are least compelling, and the female city elf origin is my absolute favorite (huge old-school Buffy fan, here), but the Dalish are just . . bland. They're very much your generic fantasy elves, only instead of being superior, they're bitter, which is just as unattractive. They have FAR less reason to hate humans than city elves, and they even look down on them! Flat-ear, indeed.



I hooked up Cammen and Gheyna once and once only. After that vomit-inducing taste of diabetes, I ignored him in every subsequent playthrough. One of the very few times I agreed with Morrigan.