45 réponses à ce sujet

[Emerald Melios]

BigBad wrote...

I hooked up Cammen and Gheyna once and once only. After that vomit-inducing taste of diabetes, I ignored him in every subsequent playthrough. One of the very few times I agreed with Morrigan.

I agree; it feels like a shameless attempt to butter up Leliana (what other use is there for "helping" them?).

[ArawnNox]

Personally, I find it refreshing not to have mary sue elves in a fantasy setting. Oh, and for the sake of Cammen, I recommend the Redesigned mod. Fixes that up nicely.

But yeah, Zathrian is an epic ******. Who stays bitter for THAT long? I wish I'd known you have to beat him up to get him to lift the curse the first time I played, otherwise I wouldn't have reloaded when I thought I was being forced to side with the werewolves.

[BHRamsay]

Emerald Melios wrote...

BigBad wrote...

I hooked up Cammen and Gheyna once and once only. After that vomit-inducing taste of diabetes, I ignored him in every subsequent playthrough. One of the very few times I agreed with Morrigan.

I agree; it feels like a shameless attempt to butter up Leliana (what other use is there for "helping" them?).

I always give my Female Wardens a taste of sweet Cammen before sending him off into a life of pitiable lights-off-single -position-only-for-procreation-like-the-Creators-intended sex with  the equally unimaginative Gheyna.

Considering how little pleasure they take in the act itself tis better they can only make each others lives miserable, no? 

[Xandurpein]

I think that the reason you don't hate Zathrian so much is that the "good" option to persuade him to lift the curse leades to a scene that is so emotionally powerful to watch.

[CalJones]

I'm not a big fan of the elves but I don't hate them as such. Sarel's a bitter lemon but he'll spare you the preachy Dalish story if you do something like help the Halla first.

Zathrian is hard to justify - obviously what he went through was horrible, but he let his hate consume him (just like Loghain, actually - only Zathrian's had several hundred more years to let it eat away at him). Epic ****** indeed. But you can slap some sense into him eventually. Getting him to lift the curse is the best possible ending. I've never once killed Witherfang - I can't see a reason why anyone would.

I usually get Cammen and Gheyna together (I just persuade Gheyna rather than give Cammen a hide) in order to get the book. They're fuggly enough that they're well suited - as my mum would say, "they'd spoil another couple."

[sylvanaerie]

I didn't dislike Lanaya. Considering her family was killed by bandits and then she was taken by said bandits to be their slave (hinting at some pretty wretched things) she ended up remarkably hate free. She hero worships Zathrian because he saved her from this life and I can understand that. She does admonish the PC for hooking up Cammen and Gheyna but then considering neither of those is any great prize they are uniquely suited to each other. And its more an objection to the PC not understanding their culture than any real anger over the situation and she's pretty cool about it saying she understands you meant no harm. Lanaya had to compete with other apprentices to get her position by skill vs the "born to the bloodline" thing the Keepers are usually selected by so she is pretty much a self made woman.

As for her objecting when you try to umm STEAL something from them (out of the box) well I found it more odd the PC can wander anywhere, take anything from boxes (Including in shops) and no one says a WORD?

Afterward Lanaya is the one who keeps peace between the Dalish and their new human neighbors in the lands Alistair/Anora give them. She seems very level headed and remarkably hate free for a Dalish, city elf born or not.

Zathrian on the other hand allowed his hate to consume him. And he has had several centuries for it to fester but he can still be talked into doing the right thing. I always get him to end the curse and redeem himself. But no I reserve my ire for other NPCs in the game. His role in the game is so short and he didn't harm nearly the number of people that some of the other NPC's did or would do if they had the opportunity.

[Minimess]

maxernst wrote....

The other thing about Zathrian, I thought the real he didn't want to remove the curse was that it enabled him to unnaturally prolong his life, so the Dalish elves venerated him like no ordinary leader. It's only after he realizes you're going to kill him anyway that he ends the curse. He's a little like Flemeth except that the price for his life was paid by far more people.

I'm sure the awareness that ending the curse will cause his own death is tugging away at Zathrian's subconcious.  However, I would say he values his long life more as a point of hope to the Dalish (that they can return to their old ways), rather than him wanting to be "revered" as a leader.

I think Zathrian's rationale of keeping the curse going still is still vengeance against the people that wronged him so many years ago, and trying to protect his clan from them (although ironically on that point it's the very curse that is now endangering his clan, as he can eventually come around to seeing).

[Virtual winter]

What I was wondering about - are the werewolves actually the descendants of the people who wronged Zathrian or are they the actual people? I always thought the latter, that they were kept alive by the curse same as Zathrian.

[sylvanaerie]

Virtual winter wrote...

What I was wondering about - are the werewolves actually the descendants of the people who wronged Zathrian or are they the actual people? I always thought the latter, that they were kept alive by the curse same as Zathrian.

No, its brought up several times in conversation these are the descendents of those people (and I assume anyone hapless enough to encounter them when they enter the woods and get bitten/turned like Danayla)

[rak72]

How about that creepy elf woman who attacks you when you go back into the forest after you lift the curse? She's ticked that you let the werewolves go, but they killed her husband. You can talk her down w/ persuasion, but I just beat the crap out of her. Only Howe gets more reloads & Kills than her

[Sarah1281]

Why is there no happy ending for Danayla? If don't break the curse then her husband can join her as a werewolf but if you do and haven't sought her out why doesn't she transform back, too? Her husband goes looking for her but you never hear if they find anything.

[sylvanaerie]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Why is there no happy ending for Danayla? If don't break the curse then her husband can join her as a werewolf but if you do and haven't sought her out why doesn't she transform back, too? Her husband goes looking for her but you never hear if they find anything.

I always have to kill her.  I wish there was an option to tell her you will be helping them and to hang in there. I find it even creepier that after you kill her, she sparkles and when you loot you get some coins and her skin

[rak72]

I wasn't talking about Danayla, there is some woman, her name starts with a P, I think. After you go back to the Dalish camp, then go back into the forest, she confronts you. She is ticked off that you released the WW's from the curse, and didn't kill them all. But yea, Danayla, you should be able to ignore her until after the curse is lifted & save her.

[Sarah1281]

rak72 wrote...

I wasn't talking about Danayla, there is some woman, her name starts with a P, I think. After you go back to the Dalish camp, then go back into the forest, she confronts you. She is ticked off that you released the WW's from the curse, and didn't kill them all. But yea, Danayla, you should be able to ignore her until after the curse is lifted & save her.

 Technically you can; just don't click on her. Then you get no resolution, though, so you don't know if her husband finds her.

[CybAnt1]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Tuvok!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, who can hate Tuvok.

I was so hoping to see Zathrian at least attempt a Vulcan nerve pinch, at some point. 

Or to tell the player who asks him to lift the curse "that is not logical". 

[Dokarqt]

BigBad wrote...

I hooked up Cammen and Gheyna once and once only. After that vomit-inducing taste of diabetes, I ignored him in every subsequent playthrough. One of the very few times I agreed with Morrigan.

Hahaha same here. Did it once to see what it was about.

After that I have seduced Gheyna then told cammen what I did to make him run into the forest to get killed every time.
Cammen is pathetic.

[Sarah1281]

There are a few. Howe and Vaughan, for instance.

[C9316]

Personally I can't really hate a person who just wanted vengance on those who murdered his son and raped his daughter I mean come on revenge is just a basic instinct. If anything I hate that he didn't trust me enough to tell me that he was the source of the curse even on my Dalish run he kept that a secret from me but he does have the option to redeem himself just before his death, the primary reason why I can't hate Loghain and Branka forever because you can make them redeem their previous actions

[Sarah1281]

C9316 wrote...

Personally I can't really hate a person who just wanted vengance on those who murdered his son and raped his daughter I mean come on revenge is just a basic instinct. If anything I hate that he didn't trust me enough to tell me that he was the source of the curse even on my Dalish run he kept that a secret from me but he does have the option to redeem himself just before his death, the primary reason why I can't hate Loghain and Branka forever because you can make them redeem their previous actions

I don't think people have a problem with that so much as he's continuing the curse on their innocent and suffering descendents with no intention of stopping even when it's killing his people, too.

[C9316]

Sarah1281 wrote...

C9316 wrote...

Personally I can't really hate a person who just wanted vengance on those who murdered his son and raped his daughter I mean come on revenge is just a basic instinct. If anything I hate that he didn't trust me enough to tell me that he was the source of the curse even on my Dalish run he kept that a secret from me but he does have the option to redeem himself just before his death, the primary reason why I can't hate Loghain and Branka forever because you can make them redeem their previous actions

I don't think people have a problem with that so much as he's continuing the curse on their innocent and suffering descendents with no intention of stopping even when it's killing his people, too.

Agreed revenge had consumed his soul to the point that he continued the curse for generations and when his people were feeling the effects but even when he wasn't going to end the curse he was going to use witherfang's heart to cure his people so I personally can't despise him for simply looking out for his own(Thats what most Humans do) but Zathrian isn't unreasonable I figure he'd end it someday even if he didn't redeem himself on that day