132 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Ninja romance is a problem with all of the companions, really. I've only managed one game as a female PC (in a dozen or so) when I haven't turned Alistair's romance on somehow. And Leliana's, too, on games where I actually talk to her at all. I suppose it is most startling for the bisexual NPCs, but it's frustrating regardless, especially when another NPC like Morrigan is insisting that you were trading smoldering glances with someone you barely talked to.

[Dokarqt]

Creature 1 wrote...

Dokarqt wrote...

Well frankly thats pretty **** writing in that case.

"Would it offend you if I said I fancy you?"

How does replying no to that make you into him, saying yes makes you come off homophobic.
Just because it doesn't offend me if Zevran is into me he takes that as a go ahead?

I believe there's an "I don't swing that way" option as well. 

Hmm perhaps. Only done one DA:O playthrough lately and I killed zevran in that one.

Even so the choice of the word "offend" is pretty poor in that situation imo.

[TheBlackBaron]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's a "I don't swing that way" option. Certainly I remember Zevran giving me his double-check line and there being a way to let him down without sounding homophobic - I've never had him ninja me.

[XwingVmanX]

I must of screwed up with the dialogue options with Zevran and didn't realize it. But I was able to lessen the blow, only lost -13 points and then gave him a gold bar which gave me +8 back lol
Such a gold digger lol

Modifié par XwingVmanX, 09 mai 2010 - 07:31 .

[Creature 1]

Just loaded up the game.



1. No, but you needn't bother. [no romance]

2. Not at all. [romance start]

3. But I'm a man. [Leads to amusement, and Zevran asking if he should apologize, then second-chance options to turn him down tactfully, initiate the romance, or turn him down flat.]

4. Err, yes actually. [no romance]

[Dokarqt]

Creature 1 wrote...

Just loaded up the game.

1. No, but you needn't bother. [no romance]
2. Not at all. [romance start]
3. But I'm a man. [Leads to amusement, and Zevran asking if he should apologize, then second-chance options to turn him down tactfully, initiate the romance, or turn him down flat.]
4. Err, yes actually. [no romance]

To me 2 seems to be the only option unless you want to come across as really stand-offish or a homophobe.

I always imagine option 1 sounding really brusque and unfriendly.

[Yendi]

The conversation mentioned in the first post about bisexuality doesn’t happen unless Zevran and the PC are already in a relationship so that not where it started. I think the "no, but you needn't bother" option to his compliments sounds a little impolite too but if you think about it it’s obvious that one answer must lead to him getting interested and “not at all” must be it. I think there is a similar situation with Leilana when a female warden ask if she prefers female company and it turns out even the less obvious answer leads to a romance, which surprised me on one occasion.

[thegreateski]

Dokarqt wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

Just loaded up the game.

1. No, but you needn't bother. [no romance]
2. Not at all. [romance start]
3. But I'm a man. [Leads to amusement, and Zevran asking if he should apologize, then second-chance options to turn him down tactfully, initiate the romance, or turn him down flat.]
4. Err, yes actually. [no romance]

To me 2 seems to be the only option unless you want to come across as really stand-offish or a homophobe.

I always imagine option 1 sounding really brusque and unfriendly.

It's all about tone of voice. With the problem being that we have no voice to "tone" with.

[Creature 1]

Dokarqt wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

Just loaded up the game.

1. No, but you needn't bother. [no romance]
2. Not at all. [romance start]
3. But I'm a man. [Leads to amusement, and Zevran asking if he should apologize, then second-chance options to turn him down tactfully, initiate the romance, or turn him down flat.]
4. Err, yes actually. [no romance]

To me 2 seems to be the only option unless you want to come across as really stand-offish or a homophobe.

I always imagine option 1 sounding really brusque and unfriendly.

I guess it makes more sense to me as a female because if you don't say "No, but you needn't bother" when guys hit on you they will never stop hitting on you. 

[Addai]

Creature 1 wrote...

Just loaded up the game.

1. No, but you needn't bother. [no romance]
2. Not at all. [romance start]
3. But I'm a man. [Leads to amusement, and Zevran asking if he should apologize, then second-chance options to turn him down tactfully, initiate the romance, or turn him down flat.]
4. Err, yes actually. [no romance]

On my male NPC, I don't recall getting the "But I'm a man" line.  I had to choose "No but don't bother," which in my mind was telling him my PC is straight, however Zevran took it to mean he was accusing him of an assassin trick.

Edit:  Come to think of it, that might have been because he had already turned the romance on with "So what is it that you fancy exactly?" which to my naive mCousland's mind, was just innocent curiosity.

Modifié par Addai67, 09 mai 2010 - 08:15 .

[Avilia]

I've never had the Leiliana problem - Alistair on the other hand - smile at him once too often and he's eyeing the tent ;-)



Zev I did have proposition me after I'd just bedded Alistair though - maybe he thought I needed a direct comparison? I wasn't brave enough to take him up on it to see what happened though...shame really.

[Mikka-chan]

Indeed. People read all situations differently, obviously, but to me, 'Not at all' seems like 'Hey, keep flirting with me!'. I don't have a problem with Zev: his triggers are pretty obvious to me (you almost do have to flirt back or give a thumbs up to actually get him truly going, and the very first time you turn him down, he's done with no worries)- and if nothing else, once he switches over to romance mode, he makes it very obvious that he's switched over so you can hit it in the bud right there. Same with Mor: being nice to her usually will set you on romance track, but having played female character's so often means I can usually catch when she's acting flirty with my male, and knock that down quick.

Ali gives me slightly more trouble. I believe, although I couldn't swear to it, that claiming the Gray Wardens are now you're home starts down the track: and, while, yes, it's a sweet comment to make, it also is often true for my characters: they don't have anywhere else to go. My dwarf wardens, in particular: to them, it's all, 'yeah, well... I guess I'm here in the Gray Wardens, just like you', which is like: boom, Alistair sparkles! As his approval is so easy, though, he's another one I often pick out: he offers the rose early so I can go 'no, bad Ali!' and get the heck outta there.

Lei, though. Oh, my dear bard. Lovely crazy girl. She stealth-romances me all the time, even though I've played this game so often that I keep thinking I know her triggers. I'd say at least seven times out of ten, if I play, I eventually get the person I'm romancing (and the other three times, I'm usually romancing her!) doing a "Oh, what about Leliana?", and I'm like... "Wait, what, whaaaaaaaaaaaat? I hardly even talked to her this time! What did I do?!"

At this point, my rules are: don't talk about hair, don't talk about shoes, don't talk about her dream, don't talk about her mentor, don't talk about elves, don't talk about pets, don't... oh, heck, it's mostly 'don't talk to her unless you plan on being a jerk'. Which is sad, because I do like her a lot- I just feel like somehow I always end on her track even if I try to choose as non-flirtatious lines as I can.

Modifié par Mikka-chan, 09 mai 2010 - 08:15 .

[thegreateski]

On a related note.



At least you didn't fall for the old "Antivan massage" trick.

[ejoslin]

I'm always confused when people say Zevran ninja-romanced them because according to the toolset, he ALWAYS confirms it before turning the romance on. Now, you may lose a few approval points if you pick a romance starting line and then back out when he confirms it, but unless you're not reading the dialog, you should have a good idea that the romance is beginning.



Much like people being surprised when they end up in the tent even though he CLEARLY asks if it's ok.

[Addai]

Mikka-chan wrote...

Ali gives me slightly more trouble. I believe, although I couldn't swear to it, that claiming the Gray Wardens are now you're home starts down the track: and, while, yes, it's a sweet comment to make, it also is often true for my characters: they don't have anywhere else to go.

That's not actually a romance starter, but there are lots of them and not always obvious.  I thought getting the rose from him was standard for all female PCs until I read otherwise here.

[soignee]

HE SAID IT WAS A MASSSSSSAGGGGEEEEEEEEE

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

I'm always confused when people say Zevran ninja-romanced them because according to the toolset, he ALWAYS confirms it before turning the romance on.

I think what people are saying is that the dialogue options for "should I not?" aren't clear.  So you could unwittingly "confirm" it when your intention was just to say "I'm not offended."

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I'm always confused when people say Zevran ninja-romanced them because according to the toolset, he ALWAYS confirms it before turning the romance on.

I think what people are saying is that the dialogue options for "should I not?" aren't clear.  So you could unwittingly "confirm" it when your intention was just to say "I'm not offended."

Just like in real life, a clear "No" is always far better than being coy.  "Should I not" is asking if he should stop flirting with you.  I mean, seriously, if a man was complementing me and it was not something I was interested in pursuing, I'd say he should not!  

Edit: Seriously, if someone said to me, "Hey, I really like you. Is that ok?"  My answer would be, I'm sorry, I don't return the feelings.  Really, answering, "Sure!  I like that!" is just leading someone on because you like them being attracted to you.

Zevran: I fancy many things. I fancy things that are beautiful and things that are strong. I fancy things that are dangerous and exciting. Would you be offended if I said I fancied you?

Obviously he's saying he's attracted to you.  Saying "Not at all" is NOT crappy writing so much as it is letting him know the feeling is mutual.  I'm amazed that someone would NOT see that.

Pick, "No, but you needn't bother" you're telling him you're not offended but you don't return the feeling.  In real life, wouldn't you want someone to extend you the same courtesy?  

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 mai 2010 - 08:30 .

[Sabariel]

I've never had that problem with Zevran. I usually chat him up until he asks what I plan to do with him once the Blight is over. I tell him that "I could always use a friend" and I'm in the friend-zone after that. I've never had a 'ninja-romance' after that point.

[ejoslin]

Sabariel wrote...

I've never had that problem with Zevran. I usually chat him up until he asks what I plan to do with him once the Blight is over. I tell him that "I could always use a friend" and I'm in the friend-zone after that. I've never had a 'ninja-romance' after that point.

And you won't.  His romance is very easy to turn off permanently.  People just want to go for maximum approval and get upset because flirting is what does lead to maximum approval.

Edit: And the title of this thread is a bit obnoxious.  Just because a gay man is attracted to someone does not make the object of attraction gay.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 mai 2010 - 08:32 .

[Bootsykk]

XwingVmanX wrote...

 So I got a certain point in the game where when I talked to Liliana she asked me if I really care about her or something or if I wanted to be with Zeveran instead. The only real option I had to reply with was "I will end things with Zeveran."

I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THERE WAS ANYTHING BETWEEN MY CHARACTER AND ZEVERAN! lol

I was thinking back to dialogue I chose when talking to him that might of lead to a hidden relationship I didn't know about,. And the only thing I could think of was, When he asked me if I was uncomfortable that he was bisexual. I said "no I am fine with it", because I didn't care that he was bisexual. But apparently there was hidden dialogue I didn't see, because from that he got "No I am fine with it, because I'm bisexual too!" lol

I just had to share that, just because of how much it confused the crap out of me. lol
I was actually hoping that when she asked me if I would end things with Zeveran there was going to be a dialogue option that said "WTF are you talking about??" lol

Anyway, does anyone else have interesting stories to tell of things they didn't expect to happen?

You were never REALLY in a relationship with Zevran, but you probably accidentally flirted with him, and Leliana got jealous. There are several dialogue options in which Zevran will flirt with you and you can be open-ended about it, neither rejecting him or flirting back, but simply being flattered. If you don't give Zevran a firm answer right away, then Leliana will always get immediately jealous. Leliana picks up on any flirting with other teammates rather quickly.

Examples of subtle, open ended answers that you might have done to accidentally have leliana seeing little red flags:
GW: "So what is it you fancy exactly?"
Zev: "I fancy things that are dangerous. . . would you mind if I said I fancied you?"
GW: "But I'm a man."
Zevran then asks if this is a problem.
GW: "No, I was just... surprised."
Even if you're simply remarking that you hadn't expected him to be bisexual, Zevran will still be given the hint that you actually didn't mind at all that he was flirting with you. This will trigger romantic relations.

There is another dialgoue tree in which he'll remark that you're handsome. If you ignore that rather than inquire him about it, then that will still be considered flirting.


EDIT: I should note that I think your status can still be 'warm' with him, but I'm prrrreeeettty sure (not positive) that other characters will still get jealous.

2ND EDIT: If you deny any of these two interactions happening, then you actually did romance him without realizing it because you simply weren't paying attention and clicked the wrong dialogue option.

Modifié par Juneya, 09 mai 2010 - 08:40 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Just like in real life, a clear "No" is always far better than being coy.  "Should I not" is asking if he should stop flirting with you.  I mean, seriously, if a man was complementing me and it was not something I was interested in pursuing, I'd say he should not! 

I don't think people see it as being coy.  They are trying to be polite, and "you should not" is very abrupt.

I don't remember exactly how it went down, but I do remember that on my HNM character, I wasn't happy with the dialogue choices I was given.  Aedan had to say "no but don't bother," which in itself sounds rude, and also ended up being understood by Zevran as an accusation that he was trying to play an assassin's trick.  Rather than the intended "no I'm not offended, but I'm straight so there's no point."

But I think we're actually talking about two different conversations.  The one I'm thinking of is where Zevran calls you a handsome Grey Warden, I think.  I guess I could try to replay a few things to check, it's a bit fuzzy.

[ejoslin]

Again, you're telling him it's not a problem. You have two answer there that shuts everything down entirely. *sigh*



Really, guys, if another man said to you, "Would you be offended if I said I fancied you," if you're not gay or at least not interested, wouldn't you want to make it REALLY clear that you're not interested? Of course, why you're asking him what he fancies when he's talking about being a crow gets you women, men, or whatever you fancy is not paying too much attention to the dialog either.



I'm generally clueless, and even I can see the tone of the conversation.

[ejoslin]

No, I have the toolset open. I guess I don't see any problem with being very clear. I assume you're talking about this:

Zevran: One simply never knows what is to come next. How could I have suspected I would end up defeated by a handsome Grey Warden, a man who then spares my life? I could not.
Warden: "Handsome?"
Zevran: Hm. Perhaps that was a poor choice of words, true though it is. Do you object?

Choices:
Warden: Of course I object!
Warden: You're wasting your time, that's all.
Warden: Not at all. It was just unexpected.

Again, he's making it very clear he's attracted to you. Telling him you object is ruder than telling him he's wasting his time. But telling him you don't mind, you were just surprised is playing it a bit coy.

Gah, this is a complaint men have about women -- that they lead them on when they're not interested. It's uncomfortable telling someone you're not interested in them, but it's far better than telling them that it's ok to keep flirting.

Edit: and Juneya, no, if he's warm, there's no jealousy triggers.  It's only if the romance is active.  Leliana's will get set off if you sleep with Zevran, and it will get set off again (as well as Alistair's and Zevran's) if they're both at 71+ adore.

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 mai 2010 - 08:47 .

[Dokarqt]

ejoslin wrote...

Again, you're telling him it's not a problem. You have two answer there that shuts everything down entirely. *sigh*

Really, guys, if another man said to you, "Would you be offended if I said I fancied you," if you're not gay or at least not interested, wouldn't you want to make it REALLY clear that you're not interested? Of course, why you're asking him what he fancies when he's talking about being a crow gets you women, men, or whatever you fancy is not paying too much attention to the dialog either.

I'm generally clueless, and even I can see the tone of the conversation.

If a man asked me that question I would let him know that I was flattered but straight, I would not however be rude about it. There is no real polite way to let Zevran know you're not interested in men in some of the flirting dialogue.

I've also had the issue of turning zevran down "properly" in one flirting dialogue only to have the romance track turn itself on again by me simply being nice in subsequent conversations.