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[Shepard Lives]

Whoa, cool thread.

So, let's see, I roleplay Shep like this:

Like in every RPG I play, I base my main off me, which basically means a smartass with a heart of gold. Despite trying seriously hard to be a hero and save everyone, sometimes he screws up (I got Kelly melted, and that was utterly devastating for him.), and not-so-rarely he gets a little angry at idiots who think his favourite pastime is playing shooting gallery with them. This makes him a Paragade who is mostly Paragon.

For other Shepards, I start the game with a personality in mind (i. e. "this guy is going to be determined and righteous" or "this guy'll be an egotistical megalomaniac") and then, while playing, I see if particular events are sufficient to change this personality, or if some characters deserve a better or worse relationship.

And then of course there is the "unpredictable psycho" playthrough (I did one in Fallout 3 deciding everything to the toss of a dice.) which unfortunately I haven't done yet in ME2.

[Xaijin]

Shep is roleplayed within the bounds of the universe, as there is no love for metagaming.

[David Falkayn]

How I roleplay really does depend. A lot of times, I'll pattern my Shepard after a character in a movie, tv series, or book. Other times, I might get inspired by something I see or read on forums such as this or elsewhere. Other times, I pattern my Shep after a character in one of my Star Trek or other stories or I might develop a completely original conception. Mostly, my Shep comes from a combination of two or more of the above. For instance, my Renagon soldier--with an emphasis on the Ren--is patterned after Major Rasmussen from the Dirty Dozen. While the character conception comes from the movie, the idea to develop the character that way comes from a thread on this forum. My Paragade infiltrator is patterned after Dominic Flandry from the Poul Anderson novels--who in turn was patterned by Mr. Anderson after Simon Templar. Other characters come from different inspirations.

[Bitterfoam]

Shandepared wrote...

Bitterfoam wrote...

Except that the colony is around and kicking in Mass Effect 2. I meet Shiala, help her out regarding the remaining colonists and the medical stuff, and she all but goes for Shepard's pants.
So, hey, looks like the colony survived.

No, it didn't survive. The survivors went back to Earth or to other colonies. In ME1 no matter if you work out a deal or not if you go back to the Citadel you'll hear a report that the colony is being shut down if you didn't save the colonists. I don't mean to criticize you for this (perhaps I used the wrong tone), I was just pointing out what actually happens. Feros is a frustrating place for me.

Maybe you need to consider the actuality that you're incorrect, because I'm not.

It really doesn't matter whether it's a coding error and/or bug on BioWare's part or not. That's how the save file reads. She Intimidated Jeong into a resolution on Feros (for him to step down and stop being a d-bag and she'd clean up the mess at Zhu's Hope so ExoGeni could rebuild the colony and continue trying to turn a profit), thereby not killing him, and then did a clean sweep through Feros, took out the Thorian, and let Shiala live. After the big dialogue scene with Shiala, Juliana and Lizbeth even comment on how they'll rebuild the Feros colony.

And then, lo and behold, Shiala is there with a little quest to do on Illium in Mass Effect 2. She talks about how the Feros colony is well and good, ExoGeni has left them to live, whatever else, and there's the medical mishap regarding the residual effects of the Thorian. And then I resolve that for her. And she's happy. That character also has the e-mail from Lizbeth that says thank you for saving her and saving the colony and whatever else.

Intended or bug, it's what her career indicates, reads, and says.

Shandepared wrote...

Bitterfoam wrote...

No. Tracking down Saren is, technically.

Your mission is to track down Saren but your job is to protect galactic stability. You don't do that if you unleash the rachni, whether they turn out peaceful or not. You've got to be one hell of an idealist to trust the queen at let her out. That's why it's a paragon decision and not a renegade one. 

It's not necessarily idealistic at all, and it's not even necessarily a matter of believing the queen's reasons. The writers gave the third option, essentially, to Kaidan in his post-Noveria mission opinion. If they'd had the option he'd have soon as left it in the hands of the Council, because the humans weren't a part of the galactic community during the time of the Rachni Wars, and they have no place in getting involved with old grudges. It's a very fine point, and usually mentioned beforehand by a party member acting as the Paragon voice of reason.

But beyond that, since taking anything says Kaidan after the fact would be metagaming (but which I brought up for purposes of sane reason), I'll be more than happy to write up a play-by-play as I did with the Feros events above.

The imprisoned queen is one of the few players on Noveria to not try and kill Shepard and her team, one. There is not a single act of aggression, nor any aggression in her tone. Nor are there any hints of manipulation in her words. These are facts. She is a reasoning, thinking, intelligent, and sentient creature capable of speech and emotion, given that in the one conversation she displays at least sorrow, grief, and uncertainty. This all weighs heavily into the decision.

Ultimately, it came down to three things. The character of Valeria Shepard herself isn't going to do something that is exactly genocide. But I took it beyond that, too. The team make-up at that point was Liara - her asari-love - and Garrus - a trusted soldier under her command. Both of them actually advise against it. With Liara, it's not surprising, since she almost always plays the Paragon role in the squad make-up. But Garrus, playing the Renegade side, also advises against it. And beyond just her teammates, you have everything the queen says echoing that which the dude down in the Hot Labs says before he gets stuck and dies.

Also, I'm still not sold on the simple release threatening galactic stability. Altering? Perhaps, depending on what the Rachni decide to do once rebuilt. Threatening? No. This is even proven by how safe, slow, and peaceful the Rachni play during the events of Mass Effect 2.

Shandepared wrote... 

Bitterfoam wrote...

Regardless, there's nothing in the brief meeting with the queen to suggest any threat to galactic stability.

Are you unaware of rachni biology and history? That the queen is calm and logical does not help your case; that just means she isn't crazy. She could easily be lying to you and if she is the consequences could be severe should you let her out. Noveria could have been overrun or a violent interstellar war could have broken out decades later after she's had the chance to rebuild her forces. You simply don't know and in such cases the responsible course of action for an agent charged with protecting trillions of lives is to take the safest and surest course of action; to kill the queen in this case. If you don't want to get your hands bloody you shouldn't be a Spectre.

Some of this is answered above, I suppose.

You make a valid point for giving her an acid bath. I don't disagree on your points for it, but I also don't agree that the only answer is genocide. I'm saying that for myself, as a reasoning individual who has analyzed the situation the game presents.

And, ultimately, there's no absolute answer for the case at all, especially not if we're talking about a roleplaying sense. I had three playthroughs with Valeria prior to ME2's release, to get her to 60 and finish Insanity and all the other ME1 achievements, to figure that out. Two of the three playthroughs I acid-bathed the queen. It's ultimately a choice where I didn't like how it mapped the character, and I didn't like how the dialogue contributed to the character. I had my reservations going into it the third time, and the team of Liara and Garrus helped to finalize it. Genocide of the rachni is not something that fits the character.

Is that in and of itself a flaw of the character? Perhaps. The character has plenty of flaws overall, and that's why I love her. Flawed characters are always the best literary creations.

Modifié par Bitterfoam, 11 mai 2010 - 09:46 .

[Jzadek72]

I tend to think up a character beforehand, and go from there, letting them shape themselves. It's quite similar to how I write. In the end, I have a character who fleshed themselves out.

[Nightwriter]

^ Same with me. The evolution of my Shepard's backstory seems to happen on its own. I don't do it consciously.

[Gundar3]

Well, as with all other RPGs the first character I play is myself so that I personally react to all the surprises and the storytelling. This was awesome throughout the game... until Legion.



The problem with Legion was that I felt it put the player in a no win situation in terms of roleplaying. You ultimately have 3 choices (really only 2). 1) Give Cerberus the Geth which I feel that I'm forced to metagame and do, even though I don't really want Cerberus to get him. Why do I need to metagame to do that? 2) Because the only other alternative is to shake a Geth's hand and welcome him to the team which makes no logical sense to me. The third option is useless to everyone as far as I know which is to just leave him on the ship deactivated. No benefits at all, unless I'm mistaken.

[Bitterfoam]

Wow. Good job attempting to succeed by taking stuff out of context. Regardless, I'm finished. It's like talking to a wall - or, to channel Zevran, a water wheel.



Away with this. Shoo, now.

[Bitterfoam]

Sure. Whatever floats your boat.

[Bitterfoam]

For what it's worth, the last two paragraphs of your post are really the only parts that made sense.

So, let's argue about something else. Is it -ever- a good idea to choose Morinth instead of Samara?

You can even have the first word. See? I'm made of .

Modifié par Bitterfoam, 12 mai 2010 - 02:59 .

[enormousmoonboots]

Bitterfoam wrote...

So, let's argue about something else. Is it -ever- a good idea to choose Morinth instead of Samara?

Depends. Do you have Dominate yet?

I don't usually play Renegade, but on my third or fourth run I picked her up just to see what her conversations were like. Can't say I was missing anything good, she's pretty arrogant and tedious.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Only from a metagaming perspective would you know about Dominate, I don't think it makes sense from roleplaying as yourself or playing from Shepard's perspective



All these concepts are starting to get confused to me however...

[Bitterfoam]

Dominate wouldn't be a RP reason, so moot point.



She's quite arrogant and tedious, though that's a constant for that character slot period, as Samara is the same. Morinth just isn't the same stick-in-the-mud that Samara is. Plus, I think she's got the hotter voice.



My first ME2 playthrough with Valeria, I did the job and sided with Samara. Second time I sided with Morinth, just to see what the difference might be.



There's really no reason to side with Morinth, given that she's psychotic. It could be removing a later threat early (Samara, for us Renegades), but at a pretty steep cost. As loyal as Morinth comes off because she's obsessed with Shepard, there's nothing but lust and manipulation to her. (See, it's a difference in tone; Morinth has it and the rachni queen doesn't.) And while that's hot, I mean, it might threaten galactic stability.

[Goodwood]

Shandepared wrote...

Bitterfoam wrote...

So, let's argue about something else. Is it -ever- a good idea to choose Morinth instead of Samara?

Sure, if you're a Renegade. Samara will be obligated to kill you later after all. Getting rid of her now gets rid of a threat later. Morinth only kills people she can seduce and in getting the option to recruit her you have already proved that you can resist her so she isn't a threat to you.

Since you like to spit this out at others every chance you get...

Metagaming.

[enormousmoonboots]

I don't think Samara tells you she's may kill you one day before her LM. Or she only does if you're extremely Renegade. Which, depending on the order you do missions, you may not be by the time you do Samara's.

There's also no indication that Morinth won't kill any of your other squaddies or crew--there's a line on Tuchanka where she has a go at Grunt.

You also have no idea how stable Morinth is--are you certain she only kills those who she seduces? She's probably killed others who discovered her secret without seducing them. Note her interest in dueling and killing her opponent. And are you certain she won't risk it all for a bite of Shepard's delicious, delicious brain? Samara's bound herself to you--you know that she can't possibly compromise the mission. Morinth is about as reliable and trustworthy as a junkie, because that's what she is.

Modifié par enormousmoonboots, 12 mai 2010 - 05:18 .

[Gundar3]

Its precisely that I dont know if Morinth will attempt to kill the crew or not that my Renegade femshep is ditching her as soon as the Collectors have been dealt with. I helped her, she helped me - were done; and I dont need to worry about Samara hunting me down.



While shes on the Normandy, I dont think Morinth would be stupid enough to try anything with the crew, the crew might not get whats happening, but Shep would and would have to "deal" with her. I like to think that my Shep is just as adept at biotics as Morinth... Of-course, shes also very arrogant, brash, and heavy handed.



Just my 2 RP cents.

[enormousmoonboots]

How often is 'too often' in a galaxy of trillions? She's had two hundred years to find the right targets. Kill people that won't be cared about--like poor, young wannabe artists living in the slums. Remember how EDI notes that Omega's population is too large and unrecorded to tell if there's a new serial killer around? It's a big galaxy.



Samara tells you that Ilium is the closest she's ever been to catching Morinth, and even then all she had was the name of a ship. She couldn't have taken down Morinth without Shepard's help, because she's a fighter, not a detective. Sniffing out missing persons isn't exactly what a justicar does best.

[enormousmoonboots]

Yeah killing poor people is pretty tough. Definitely gonna need those skills. Morinth, seduce those Collectors. Immediately.