141 réponses à ce sujet

[Cody]

Big time, very realistic and makes the player feel more in control. I like it.

[Mister V10L473R]

tyvm took all of 4 seconds to think of it though so I wonder why BW didn't. Ah probably EA's fault

[Sailears]

Mister V10L473R wrote...

why not this. At charecter generation each class  chooses their weapons. Keeeping with the mechanics of the game it would be like this

Vanguard, Infiltrator= 3 weapons
Sentinel, Adept, Engineer= 2 weapons
Soldiers= 4 weapons

It allows for the bonus weapon in the collector ship, keeps the feel of the class, and since Shep is your creation, why shouldn't you be able to choose your loadout? I'd have my vantard with a the shotgun (duh), heavy pistol and AR, I won't have the ranged shield stripping ability of the SMG, but the accruacy and penetration of the AR replaces it.

Tlazolteotl wrote...

There's a problem with every class being a weapons rack, though ...
I think there's an argument to be made for caster classes to simply not being able to function carrying as much.
Therefore,
I propose a weapon encumbrance system. 2 points for pistol, 3 points
for assault rifle, 5 points for heavy weapon, or somesuch ... and say
adepts get 9 points for loadout, while a soldier gets 16. Or something
like that.

Two sensible ideas.


But I must say, this realism issue seems fairly minor when you think about the fact that you can be behind paper thin (exaggeration) cover, 2 metres from a ymir, and not take any damage from its rocket.

Modifié par Curunen, 10 mai 2010 - 07:05 .

[cepapoe]

I'm going to do something unexpected and argue about lore, at least in the stance of biotics. Biotics have to exert alot of energy to do biotics, and it takes a toll on their bodies. They have to take in more calories every day and even carry around special drinks to keep them going sometimes. With this in mind, carrying around a large and perhaps cumbersome assault rifle would cause even more calorie consumption and make them even weaker. A pistol and smg are small and light, and don't encumber an adept any, so they are the ideal weapons for them.

[cruc1al]

cepapoe wrote...

I'm going to do something unexpected and argue about lore, at least in the stance of biotics. Biotics have to exert alot of energy to do biotics, and it takes a toll on their bodies. They have to take in more calories every day and even carry around special drinks to keep them going sometimes. With this in mind, carrying around a large and perhaps cumbersome assault rifle would cause even more calorie consumption and make them even weaker. A pistol and smg are small and light, and don't encumber an adept any, so they are the ideal weapons for them.

So adepts shouldn't be able to pick up a weapon on the collector ship?

[mi55ter]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

There's a problem with every class being a weapons rack, though ...
I think there's an argument to be made for caster classes to simply not being able to function carrying as much.
Therefore, I propose a weapon encumbrance system. 2 points for pistol, 3 points for assault rifle, 5 points for heavy weapon, or somesuch ... and say adepts get 9 points for loadout, while a soldier gets 16. Or something like that.

I like this idea. Having to think about your loadout is an excellent RPG solution to this shooter problem, mainly not being able to shoot the way you want (because you haven't got access to some weapons).

[JaegerBane]

I do have to admit that I've never understood the weapon restictions on the classes in ME. The idea that a Vanguard is somehow psychologically incapable of learning how to shoot a rifle never made much sense.

Personally I just modded the Coalesced.ini so that my Adept could wield everything except heavy pistols. And he picked a Revenant on the ship. I can't be bothered with all this pointless rubbish about how certain classes only use certain guns Because They Say So. How many RPGs enforce use of an arbitrary list of weapons on a class basis?

[Tlazolteotl]

Err, just about every bioware game?

[Atmosfear3]

lol at comparing ME1 weapon system to ME2.



ME1 had many flaws. One of them being the weapon system.

[JaegerBane]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Err, just about every bioware game?

*scratches head*

Well, let's see...

Neverwinter Nights? Feats for anybody.

KOTOR? Feats for anybody (ok, lightsabers Jedi only... is that really an issue here?)

Dragon Age? If you had the strength, you could wield it. Or you could be an Arcane Warrior.

Quite clearly, not every Bioware game makes such an enforcement. Not by a long shot.

[rplong]

Just to comment on the topic...I think there should be an option to train each person with each weapon if you so desire. However, in ME1 I wish they would not have worn the weapons they weren't trained for. What was Liara doing walking around with that arsenal when all she could use was a pistol?



I personally like the lightened look in ME2. If I could remove the heavy weapon from my back I would be in heaven. I play an infiltrator and wish that all I had on was my sniper rifle and my SMG on my hip. To me the bulky look of holding every weapon just seems like too much.



But again, for ME3, allow us to spend squad points for optional weapons training if we so desire.

[jwalker]

CodyMelch wrote...

I am just saying to realism the classes should be able to use ALL the weapons and how the restrictions do not make much sense.

I think this restriction is about gameplay. I doesn't have to make sense in reality

If you're going to pick apart any non-realistic aspect of the game because is non-realistic, well, there wouldn't be a game...  Mass relays: instant travel across galaxys ? Yeah, right. Only in non-realistics tv shows.

[Cody]

jwalker wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

I am just saying to realism the classes should be able to use ALL the weapons and how the restrictions do not make much sense.

I think this restriction is about gameplay. I doesn't have to make sense in reality

If you're going to pick apart any non-realistic aspect of the game because is non-realistic, well, there wouldn't be a game...  Mass relays: instant travel across galaxys ? Yeah, right. Only in non-realistics tv shows.

I'm not picking apart the story. They are trying to add a more rpg and shooter look to combat. So restriction the weapons use isn't the way to do that.

[jwalker]

I'm ok with this restriction.



Of course, BioWare could add some more flavor.



My memory is terrible, but I think there were some nice things with weapons in Deus Ex (the first one). Something like that might work, but probably that's too old...

[cruc1al]

justinnstuff wrote...

I think it would cause too much homogenization between all the classes. Honestly ME needs to become more RPG, not less.

Which is why realism and player choice should matter more. Homogenization happens only if you keep the realism but take away player choice.

[Katya Nadanova]

You know what they should do? Get rid of the different classes all together. Let you pick whatever talents/weapons you want at the beginning of the game. /sarcasm



Let's be realistic here, if all classes could use all weapons, the adept with the bonus power energy drain, would be unstoppable. I mean come on now, all classes using all weapons is absurd. To me, the soldiers ability to use all the weapons is what separates it from the other classes.



Let's look closer for a minute. The solider has two, maybe three, activated powers depending on what bonus power you choose. The adept has six, seven depending on bonus power. Would that be balanced if the adept could use all weapons? No. The solider uses different weapons depending on the circumstances, the adept and any other class for that matter, uses different powers/tactics.



I left out the ammo powers for solider because they are not activated powers, they are sustained abilities.

[Aradace]

JaegerBane wrote...

I do have to admit that I've never understood the weapon restictions on the classes in ME. The idea that a Vanguard is somehow psychologically incapable of learning how to shoot a rifle never made much sense.

Personally I just modded the Coalesced.ini so that my Adept could wield everything except heavy pistols. And he picked a Revenant on the ship. I can't be bothered with all this pointless rubbish about how certain classes only use certain guns Because They Say So. How many RPGs enforce use of an arbitrary list of weapons on a class basis?

And just about every Square/Enix Final Fantasy game.

[Cody]

BristowJ wrote...

You know what they should do? Get rid of the different classes all together. Let you pick whatever talents/weapons you want at the beginning of the game. /sarcasm

Let's be realistic here, if all classes could use all weapons, the adept with the bonus power energy drain, would be unstoppable. I mean come on now, all classes using all weapons is absurd. To me, the soldiers ability to use all the weapons is what separates it from the other classes.

Let's look closer for a minute. The solider has two, maybe three, activated powers depending on what bonus power you choose. The adept has six, seven depending on bonus power. Would that be balanced if the adept could use all weapons? No. The solider uses different weapons depending on the circumstances, the adept and any other class for that matter, uses different powers/tactics.

I left out the ammo powers for solider because they are not activated powers, they are sustained abilities.

Why do people keep thinking that the weapon choices make the soldier? IT DOESN'T. It's there skills and abilities. Would an adept do as much damage as a solider with the weapons? NO. Nowhere near. Would they have as much accuracy with automatic weapons? No. Would they have as much health and be as fast as a soldier? No. They would not be able to act like a soldier would, because a soldier can run and gun, if an adept trried that they would be down on the ground in 3 seconds. The guns are their for realism and to be handy at the same time. They would not make every classes the exact same.

The best way for having each class to equip every weapon in the game while still being restricted to a certain number of weapons is the way Mister V10L473R mentioned it.

Mister V10L473R wrote...

why not this. At charecter
generation each class  chooses their weapons. Keeeping with the
mechanics of the game it would be like this

Vanguard,
Infiltrator= 3 weapons
Sentinel, Adept, Engineer= 2 weapons
Soldiers=
4 weapons

It allows for the bonus weapon in the collector ship,
keeps the feel of the class, and since Shep is your creation, why
shouldn't you be able to choose your loadout? I'd have my vantard with a
the shotgun (duh), heavy pistol and AR, I won't have the ranged shield
stripping ability of the SMG, but the accruacy and penetration of the AR
replaces it.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

This would be perfect really. Again the soldier would still do more damage(because they have skills that increase weapon damage) but everyone can still choose any weapon they choose, which would be realistic, and their would still be restrictions too.

[Aradace]

"Weapons dont make the Soldier class" Uhhhhhhhhhhh yea, Im throwing the bull**** card on that one. Take away a Soldier's weapons and what do you have? NOTHING. It is the PRIMARY thing that sets them apart from the other classes...Where as other classes have other powers or tactics they can rely on for different situations, the Soldier has a gun for every situation. Hell, if memory serves, it was even advertised that way in the Soldier class video before ME2 was released on the official site.

[Katya Nadanova]

CodyMelch wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

You know what they should do? Get rid of the different classes all together. Let you pick whatever talents/weapons you want at the beginning of the game. /sarcasm

Let's be realistic here, if all classes could use all weapons, the adept with the bonus power energy drain, would be unstoppable. I mean come on now, all classes using all weapons is absurd. To me, the soldiers ability to use all the weapons is what separates it from the other classes.

Let's look closer for a minute. The solider has two, maybe three, activated powers depending on what bonus power you choose. The adept has six, seven depending on bonus power. Would that be balanced if the adept could use all weapons? No. The solider uses different weapons depending on the circumstances, the adept and any other class for that matter, uses different powers/tactics.

I left out the ammo powers for solider because they are not activated powers, they are sustained abilities.

Why do people keep thinking that the weapon choices make the soldier? IT DOESN'T. It's there skills and abilities. Would an adept do as much damage as a solider with the weapons? NO. Nowhere near. Would they have as much accuracy with automatic weapons? No. Would they have as much health and be as fast as a soldier? No. They would not be able to act like a soldier would, because a soldier can run and gun, if an adept trried that they would be down on the ground in 3 seconds. The guns are their for realism and to be handy at the same time. They would not make every classes the exact same.

The best way for having each class to equip every weapon in the game while still being restricted to a certain number of weapons is the way Mister V10L473R mentioned it.

You are wrong.  Soldiers ARE defined by the fact that they use all the weapons.  Let's be honest here, soldiers are not defined by there "skills and abilites".   They have two activated skills and a bunch of ammo powers.  That's it.  Without ALL the weapons the solider class would be a complete joke.  The weapon layout for the classes is completely fine the way it is.

edit:

Aradace wrote...

"Weapons dont make the Soldier class"
Uhhhhhhhhhhh yea, Im throwing the bull**** card on that one. Take away a
Soldier's weapons and what do you have? NOTHING. It is the PRIMARY
thing that sets them apart from the other classes...Where as other
classes have other powers or tactics they can rely on for different
situations, the Soldier has a gun for every situation. Hell, if memory
serves, it was even advertised that way in the Soldier class video
before ME2 was released on the official site.

^That too.^  I am fairly certain your right.  To my knowledge the solider class was advertised as: "The class with all the weapons and ammo powers, to handle any situation."

Modifié par BristowJ, 11 mai 2010 - 12:19 .

[cruc1al]

BristowJ wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

You know what they should do? Get rid of the different classes all together. Let you pick whatever talents/weapons you want at the beginning of the game. /sarcasm

Let's be realistic here, if all classes could use all weapons, the adept with the bonus power energy drain, would be unstoppable. I mean come on now, all classes using all weapons is absurd. To me, the soldiers ability to use all the weapons is what separates it from the other classes.

Let's look closer for a minute. The solider has two, maybe three, activated powers depending on what bonus power you choose. The adept has six, seven depending on bonus power. Would that be balanced if the adept could use all weapons? No. The solider uses different weapons depending on the circumstances, the adept and any other class for that matter, uses different powers/tactics.

I left out the ammo powers for solider because they are not activated powers, they are sustained abilities.

Why do people keep thinking that the weapon choices make the soldier? IT DOESN'T. It's there skills and abilities. Would an adept do as much damage as a solider with the weapons? NO. Nowhere near. Would they have as much accuracy with automatic weapons? No. Would they have as much health and be as fast as a soldier? No. They would not be able to act like a soldier would, because a soldier can run and gun, if an adept trried that they would be down on the ground in 3 seconds. The guns are their for realism and to be handy at the same time. They would not make every classes the exact same.

The best way for having each class to equip every weapon in the game while still being restricted to a certain number of weapons is the way Mister V10L473R mentioned it.

You are wrong.  Soldiers ARE defined by the fact that they use all the weapons.  Let's be honest here, soldiers are not defined by there "skills and abilites".   They have two activated skills and a bunch of ammo powers.  That's it.  Without ALL the weapons the solider class would be a complete joke.  The weapon layout for the classes is completely fine the way it is.

A soldier without an assault rifle, the only weapon unique to soldiers, would still play like a soldier IMO.

[Katya Nadanova]

cruc1al wrote...

A soldier without an assault rifle, the only weapon unique to soldiers, would still play like a soldier IMO.

Yes and no.  Without the assault rifle, the solider doesn't have any weapons that have rapid fire.  They don't have the SMG.  Other classes can get the AR later in the game.  So its not entirely exclusive to soliders.

[Aradace]

BristowJ wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

A soldier without an assault rifle, the only weapon unique to soldiers, would still play like a soldier IMO.

Yes and no.  Without the assault rifle, the solider doesn't have any weapons that have rapid fire.  They don't have the SMG.  Other classes can get the AR later in the game.  So its not entirely exclusive to soliders.

This, but I stand by my original stance.

[Cody]

BristowJ wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

A soldier without an assault rifle, the only weapon unique to soldiers, would still play like a soldier IMO.

Yes and no.  Without the assault rifle, the solider doesn't have any weapons that have rapid fire.  They don't have the SMG.  Other classes can get the AR later in the game.  So its not entirely exclusive to soliders.

Neither is the Sniper Rifle, Shotgun or Pistol. So there you go. Besides they have more ammo powers and adrenaline rush, giv them the weapon layout of a vanguard and they will still be lethal >_>.