141 réponses à ce sujet

[Cody]

thepiebaker wrote...

hey cody check this out:wizard:
http://social.biowar...index/2277020/1

yes, and if I get a transfer kit I would do some things. But this thread isn't me complaining that I can't use an a certain for a certain class or w/e. This thread is trying to get more realism and more player control be put into the game. But thanks anyways.

Modifié par CodyMelch, 11 mai 2010 - 09:42 .

[NiftuCal]

Aradace wrote...

NiftuCal wrote...

i wish bioware would cut all restrictions. weapons, abilities, armors, love interests...... i dont know why we have classes like adept and engineer either. hows about ltting US create our shepard not some random developer who thinks throw warp and overload would be awesome for a sentinel. id like classes to be eliminated. maybe if we left the base classes as is, id like to be able to choose my biotics/techs with my class. take sentinel for example, two bio slots, two tech slots and one combat slot, and you pick which ever ability you want from each specialization.

we can customize everything from our looks to our story, but we cant customize what we physically want to do in the game.

do they ever explain why i HAVE to be a sentinel and nothing more nothing less?

Hmmm...If you're uncomfortable with the restrictions, perhaps a game like Oblivion or Fallout 3 would be more to your liking?

your recomending bethesda games on a bioware website you lunatic! i diditn really like nor did i understand what was going on with leveling in oblivion. i got about 10 hours in and i still didnt know what i was doing in order to level my abilities. i also didnt like the way you had to use something to get better at it. i know that makes sense, but id rather get XP from killing dudes and completeing missions and applying those points towards whatever skill set i so choose. i did like the way i could develop my characters in fallout3 tho. i could still use any weapons i was just more proficient in the ones i specialized in. id like ME3 to take the aproach fallout 3 had with specializing in whatever you want.

[jwalker]

CodyMelch wrote...

yes, and if I get a transfer kit I would do some things. But this thread isn't me complaining that I can't use an a certain for a certain class or w/e. This thread is trying to get more realism and more player control be put into the game. But thanks anyways.

I really don't understand this realism issue.

It's a game. It has to set up some rules and those rules have to make sense inside the game. That's it. The only goal is a fun gameplay. We can argue about if it is fun enough or not.

And what about the mechanics of damage and health ? I'm pretty sure nobody can take a barrage of hot metal and be fully recovered after a few seconds.  That doesn't happen in real life and you're not complaining about it.

[Katya Nadanova]

JaegerBane wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

Exactly!  Thank you!  At least your paying attetion.  I mean if you give the other classes access to all the weapons you might as well give other classes access to pull, throw, overload etc. etc.

Why? Why are you comparing the soldier's weapons with powers? The Soldier has his own signature skill, just like all other classes. He has his own powers, just like all other classes. No-one is advocating moving them around. It's not even like the soldier has the ability to access all guns.

Because having all the guns defines the solider.  The solider only has two activated powers, the rest are just ammo powers.  Its how the solider class deals with combat, other classes use their powers as the primary attack option, the solider uses guns.

[Jackal904]

No.

[Cody]

jwalker wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

yes, and if I get a transfer kit I would do some things. But this thread isn't me complaining that I can't use an a certain for a certain class or w/e. This thread is trying to get more realism and more player control be put into the game. But thanks anyways.

I really don't understand this realism issue.

It's a game. It has to set up some rules and those rules have to make sense inside the game. That's it. The only goal is a fun gameplay. We can argue about if it is fun enough or not.

And what about the mechanics of damage and health ? I'm pretty sure nobody can take a barrage of hot metal and be fully recovered after a few seconds.  That doesn't happen in real life and you're not complaining about it.

Cause it's an rpg? That and the ability to take a barrage of bullets comes from the armor your wearing,shields and the regeneration factor said armor has, also in ME2 you can't take a barrage of bullets. At least not that much before you die. That and you keep comparing the restrictions of weapons to that of other things like mass relays and such. Theres a diffrence between the two. Mass Effect 2 is a shooter RPG. Make the shooter aspect more "realistic" in terms of weapons. That and give the player more control. Like and RPG does.

[cruc1al]

jwalker wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

yes, and if I get a transfer kit I would do some things. But this thread isn't me complaining that I can't use an a certain for a certain class or w/e. This thread is trying to get more realism and more player control be put into the game. But thanks anyways.

I really don't understand this realism issue.

It's a game. It has to set up some rules and those rules have to make sense inside the game. That's it. The only goal is a fun gameplay. We can argue about if it is fun enough or not.

And what about the mechanics of damage and health ? I'm pretty sure nobody can take a barrage of hot metal and be fully recovered after a few seconds.  That doesn't happen in real life and you're not complaining about it.

That's because it's not the issue here. And, it's also been explained (medi-gel being constantly fed from your armor), even if in a very shallow and unrealistic manner. An adept not being able to even carry any weapons apart from a pistol and smg from the start is just... obscure. It's not explained, unlike many other features in the ME universe or gameplay which the devs have attempted to make seem realistic.

[cruc1al]

BristowJ wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

Exactly!  Thank you!  At least your paying attetion.  I mean if you give the other classes access to all the weapons you might as well give other classes access to pull, throw, overload etc. etc.

Why? Why are you comparing the soldier's weapons with powers? The Soldier has his own signature skill, just like all other classes. He has his own powers, just like all other classes. No-one is advocating moving them around. It's not even like the soldier has the ability to access all guns.

Because having all the guns defines the solider.  The solider only has two activated powers, the rest are just ammo powers.  Its how the solider class deals with combat, other classes use their powers as the primary attack option, the solider uses guns.

But no other class has all ammo powers. Why not say that the soldier is defined by having access to all ammo powers?

Also, you ignore the fact that a specific set of skills is meaningful. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

[Katya Nadanova]

Kid_SixXx wrote...
Not if the Soldier's damage output with all guns on average exceeds the damage output of other classes.  Having an AR or a Shotgun gives other classes weapons of last resort when they run out of ammo with their "go to" guns.  That is the OP's line of logic, I think.

No, it doesn't sound ridiculous.  Having all guns available for use doesn't mean that they are going to be used uniformly by a player.  Someone playing an Infiltrator is going to note that his class build is more germaine to sniper rifle use than AR use, so he is probably going to stick to using the SR.  Access to the full arsenal gives our Infiltrator more "oh crap" options when he leans on the trigger of the SR too much or too often.

Which is my argument against full loadouts for all characters.  The primary reason for people wanting full loadouts for classes other than Soldiers is "I run out of bullets too fast."  If anyone is complaining about running out of ammo, then they are not taking the necessary opportunities to advance through a combat zone, gain ground, and gather thermal clips, they are relying too much on guns and need to use powers more often, or they aren't making their shots count with the guns at their disposal.

Their should be a downside or a check to playing another class and limiting loadouts works for class balance and really does eliminate wasted motion.  I hated the weapon system in ME1 for hybrid classes.  There really was no sense in arming my AdeptShep with an AR if he was going to suck at using one, but in-game you are an Alliance Marine and as Ashley said, "Every marine is a rifleman and every rifleman is zero-g certified."

I don't agree with your first paragraph.  Other classes don't need other weapons as a last resort.  Why?  You can't honestly believe an adept with the ability to use AR would sitck with the SMG or Pistol when they could use AR.  Same for an infiltrator with a shotgun.  Why snipe when you can turn invisible and shotgun people?  If that is what the OP is trying to say then I disagree with him.

Your wrong again in the second paragraph.  You can't count on players assuming how a class is suppose to play if they have all the guns at their disposal.  Also, if they play the class properly they won't need "oh, crap" weapons.  Besides the temptation to use those "oh, crap" weapons other times will be too great to resist. 

I agree with the running out of ammo thing again too.

Last paragraph I have issues with.  The solider trains in using the diferent guns, yes?  An adept trains in using biotics, yes?  If an adept trained in using all the guns that would be double the training for them.  Ash may say that but in ME you could use all the guns.  But unless you had advanced training, you could not zoom with them.  It's not that other classes couldn't use the guns, its that the other guns don't fit their combat style.  Therefore, they are unessacary for the other classes to carry around.

[Katya Nadanova]

cruc1al wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

Exactly!  Thank you!  At least your paying attetion.  I mean if you give the other classes access to all the weapons you might as well give other classes access to pull, throw, overload etc. etc.

Why? Why are you comparing the soldier's weapons with powers? The Soldier has his own signature skill, just like all other classes. He has his own powers, just like all other classes. No-one is advocating moving them around. It's not even like the soldier has the ability to access all guns.

Because having all the guns defines the solider.  The solider only has two activated powers, the rest are just ammo powers.  Its how the solider class deals with combat, other classes use their powers as the primary attack option, the solider uses guns.

But no other class has all ammo powers. Why not say that the soldier is defined by having access to all ammo powers?

Also, you ignore the fact that a specific set of skills is meaningful. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

Because if a solider had all the ammo powers and only carried a SMG and Pistol, they wouldn't be that great of a class.  They would be like an adept but instead of having biotics talents to do damage to emimes they would just have ammo powers. 

Its not that I'm ignoring that, its just when I think of the solider class the first thing that comes to mind is the fact that they use all the guns.  Not that they have the ammo powers, or AR.

[Cody]

BristowJ wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

Exactly!  Thank you!  At least your paying attetion.  I mean if you give the other classes access to all the weapons you might as well give other classes access to pull, throw, overload etc. etc.

Why? Why are you comparing the soldier's weapons with powers? The Soldier has his own signature skill, just like all other classes. He has his own powers, just like all other classes. No-one is advocating moving them around. It's not even like the soldier has the ability to access all guns.

Because having all the guns defines the solider.  The solider only has two activated powers, the rest are just ammo powers.  Its how the solider class deals with combat, other classes use their powers as the primary attack option, the solider uses guns.

But no other class has all ammo powers. Why not say that the soldier is defined by having access to all ammo powers?

Also, you ignore the fact that a specific set of skills is meaningful. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

Because if a solider had all the ammo powers and only carried a SMG and Pistol, they wouldn't be that great of a class.  They would be like an adept but instead of having biotics talents to do damage to emimes they would just have ammo powers. 

Its not that I'm ignoring that, its just when I think of the solider class the first thing that comes to mind is the fact that they use all the guns.  Not that they have the ammo powers, or AR.

Then you missed the point of the soldier class. The Adept is defined by their biotic powers, the engineer class is defined by their tech abilities, the soldier is defined by their COMBAT abilities/powers. Like Adrenaline rush and having more access to ammo powers. You get it? 

use AR.  Same for an infiltrator with a shotgun.  Why snipe when
you can turn invisible and shotgun people?

Because doing so will take off your cover and screw you over in bigger mobs. Using it as infiltrators do now is the better choice.

[cruc1al]

BristowJ wrote...

Because if a solider had all the ammo powers and only carried a SMG and Pistol, they wouldn't be that great of a class.

With Adrenaline rush, ammo powers, SMG and heavy pistol, they'd obliterate insanity anyway.

They would be like an adept but instead of having biotics talents to do damage to emimes they would just have ammo powers.

Just ammo powers huh? Two words. Adrenaline rush.

Its not that I'm ignoring that, its just when I think of the solider class the first thing that comes to mind is the fact that they use all the guns.  Not that they have the ammo powers, or AR.

Of course it's the first thing that comes to mind. That's how they advertised it.

Modifié par cruc1al, 12 mai 2010 - 12:59 .

[thepiebaker]

CodyMelch wrote...

thepiebaker wrote...

hey cody check this out:wizard:
http://social.biowar...index/2277020/1

yes, and if I get a transfer kit I would do some things. But this thread isn't me complaining that I can't use an a certain for a certain class or w/e. This thread is trying to get more realism and more player control be put into the game. But thanks anyways.

well do what i'm going to do. get an external harddrive. i'm getting a 1tb. and transfer all your save data onto it and then hook that up to your computer and you can edit it that way. your actual savegames might not transfer over so you might have to start a brand new profile onto the harddrive

[Katya Nadanova]

CodyMelch wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

Exactly!  Thank you!  At least your paying attetion.  I mean if you give the other classes access to all the weapons you might as well give other classes access to pull, throw, overload etc. etc.

Why? Why are you comparing the soldier's weapons with powers? The Soldier has his own signature skill, just like all other classes. He has his own powers, just like all other classes. No-one is advocating moving them around. It's not even like the soldier has the ability to access all guns.

Because having all the guns defines the solider.  The solider only has two activated powers, the rest are just ammo powers.  Its how the solider class deals with combat, other classes use their powers as the primary attack option, the solider uses guns.

But no other class has all ammo powers. Why not say that the soldier is defined by having access to all ammo powers?

Also, you ignore the fact that a specific set of skills is meaningful. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

Because if a solider had all the ammo powers and only carried a SMG and Pistol, they wouldn't be that great of a class.  They would be like an adept but instead of having biotics talents to do damage to emimes they would just have ammo powers. 

Its not that I'm ignoring that, its just when I think of the solider class the first thing that comes to mind is the fact that they use all the guns.  Not that they have the ammo powers, or AR.

Then you missed the point of the soldier class. The Adept is defined by their biotic powers, the engineer class is defined by their tech abilities, the soldier is defined by their COMBAT abilities/powers. Like Adrenaline rush and having more access to ammo powers. You get it? 

use AR.  Same for an infiltrator with a shotgun.  Why snipe when
you can turn invisible and shotgun people?

Because doing so will take off your cover and screw you over in bigger mobs. Using it as infiltrators do now is the better choice.

Look, I played as the solider class, I used AR, ammo powers, didn't use CS cause I didn't like it.  My point is that the main difference I noticed while I was playing a solider, was that I used my abilities less often and focused more on picking the right weapon for the right situation.  When I play as an adept or some other class, I think more about how can I best use my unique powers to best defeat the enemy, and I use my guns less often.  Guns are the focus of a soliders combat style, the same way biotics are the focus of an adept's combat style.

Don't use it in bigger mobs?  Wasn't it shown in the combat video for infitrators that you use tactical cloack and then sneak up behind eneimies with the SMG?

[NiftuCal]

i love how involved and the huge effort bioware puts into the ME universe. everything is so well thought out and everything makes perfect sense within the story. from new species to new forms of technology, its awesome. it really makes you appreciate the game bioware made. the thing were missing here is that things dont always need to be explained. take mordins anticelloctor swarm suits. nothing is said about how or why mordin got the collector swarm bugs to ignore shepard and squad. its goes dont like this....

shepard "mordin do you have anything yet?"

mordin (awesome smile) "yes."

.....and then shepard leaves for horizon.

heck it didnte make sense when you beat the AI on luna in ME1 and you get a class upgrade. it didnt make sense when you started a new sheaprd and got to pick a bonus talent. nobody in the game ever came up to me and said " HEY SHEPARD. i hear your an adept but your carrying around a sniper rifle! im telling udina on you!" and more importantly most casual gamers had no idea they could do those two things, unless they came onto this forum and found out.

it doesnt make sense that shepard has to be one of the 6 classes. were not playing sports here where i need a specific position to call my own. shepards a space marine. period. saying shepard can only use throw, warp, overload, and crypo blast, and then labeling that a "sentinel" doesnt make any sense to me. especially because we are forced to use those powers if we choose that class.

i actually think ME loses some casual fans becasue most gamers only play a game once. we start the game with no idea what a soldier or an adept can actually do, and it takes a few hours for that character to actually show in game what investing those points and unlocking other abilites can do. which brings me to another thing i hate, prereques for abilities. i cant use lift unless i get sorta good at throw? whats the point? seriously, whats the point? bioware makes all these great changes to RPG experiences like the dialogue wheel , hell like the entire game, but they rely on a system created from the first RPG ever made.

lets drop the "requirements" and just make our shepard however we want to make our shepards.

Modifié par NiftuCal, 12 mai 2010 - 01:14 .

[Katya Nadanova]

cruc1al wrote...

BristowJ wrote...

Because if a solider had all the ammo powers and only carried a SMG and Pistol, they wouldn't be that great of a class.

With Adrenaline rush, ammo powers, SMG and heavy pistol, they'd obliterate insanity anyway.

They would be like an adept but instead of having biotics talents to do damage to emimes they would just have ammo powers.

Just ammo powers huh? Two words. Adrenaline rush.

Its not that I'm ignoring that, its just when I think of the solider class the first thing that comes to mind is the fact that they use all the guns.  Not that they have the ammo powers, or AR.

Of course it's the first thing that comes to mind. That's how they advertised it.

Maybe they would, but its not like they don't already.

You forgot concussive shot too.  I didn't mention AR because its a class specfic power like tactical cloak or biotic charge.

So?  Having all the guns is like the main attraction to the solider class.

[Heather Cline]

In ME1 each class had access to all weapons. That upset a lot of people from what I have read. So Bioware went and created weapon restrictions for all classes. Only Shepard can use the heavy weapons no matter what class he/she is. But a biotic can only use a sub machine gun and a pistol up until you get to the collector ship and choose a new weapon class. You can choose from an assault rifle, sniper rifle and shot gun. Only the soldier class gets access to all weapons. Even the Infiltrator doesn't get all weapon access. It's just the way the game was made.

Don't get me wrong, I loved ME1 and hell I would love to see Bioware revisit all the stuff that made ME1 great. I think ME1 was better than ME2 in many ways. But Bioware listened more to the third person shooter fans and less to the rpg fans and as such we got ME2. Also they listened to the homophobic public and that is why the lesbian and gay gamers didn't get anything as love interests among the squad mates. I don't count the Kelly Chambers stuff as romance as it was just something tacked on at the end which was dumb in the first place.

[Tilarta]

Gravbh wrote...
I may be alone here, but I always thought it was stupid that every character, no matter class, had every weapon on their back at all times in ME1. Why does Liara have a sniper rifle?

Yeah, that was wierd to me too.
Especially since cutscene transitions would have Liara and Tali switch to assault rifles and I was thinking this:
"Okay, these two are fully trained in pistols, why pull out guns they can't use efficiently?".

And although they can't do this in ME2, the cutscenes still have wierd moments where someone pulls out an AR (like Miranda, Thane or Mordin) and they don't have one! Garrus also pulls out a pistol from some magic hat as well.

Blackbaron15 wrote...
Honestly I do not see why my soldier is not allowed to use SMG'S it would be better if they let you replace the smg with the pistol!

I was thinking something like that myself.
I don't use the shotgun at all, so why can't I trade it for the Locust instead?

Unfortunately, I was only able to specialize once and I needed the Widow more, so that was what I chose.

I'm okay with the squadmates having the weapons limitations, but for Shepherd, not really.

[jwalker]

CodyMelch wrote...

Make the shooter aspect more "realistic" in terms of weapons.

So, of the many aspects of the game, realism is a problem only when it comes to weapons system ?
It seems a bit convenient.

And why make it more "realistic"  ? That doesn't mean it'll be more fun.

I don't know anything about military training and such, but it doesn't seem likely a guy carrying an assault rifle, a shotgun, a sniper rifle, a pistol, a rocket launcher and ammo for all those weapons in his back. Should that be changed as well ? I mean, before starting a mission, pick one main weapon and a side arm. Nothing more. That would be more realistic. And I wouldn't like that.

Modifié par jwalker, 12 mai 2010 - 02:01 .

[Cody]

jwalker wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

Make the shooter aspect more "realistic" in terms of weapons.

So, of the many aspects of the game, realism is a problem only when it comes to weapons system ?
It seems a bit convenient.

And why make it more "realistic"  ? That doesn't mean it'll be more fun.

I don't know anything about military training and such, but it doesn't seem likely a guy carrying an assault rifle, a shotgun, a sniper rifle, a pistol, a rocket launcher and ammo for all those weapons in his back. Should that be changed as well ? I mean, before starting a mission, pick one main weapon and a side arm. Nothing more. That would be more realistic. And I wouldn't like that.

If you actually bothered to read Cru1al's reply you would have an answer to your questions as well. Not only that but they are obviously trying to make the shooter aspect more realistic(along with the biotic aspect but it is a sci fi) so the gun restriction would not help in this area. Also do you really think military personal would not take out a whole bunch of guns with them if they could not shoten them like Shepard and them can in ME 1 and 2? They would because it would be stupid not to.

NiftuCal wrote...

heck it didnte make sense when you beat the AI on luna in ME1 and you
get a class upgrade. it didnt make sense when you started a new sheaprd
and got to pick a bonus talent. nobody in the game ever came up to me
and said " HEY SHEPARD. i hear your an adept but your carrying around a
sniper rifle! im telling udina on you!"

well if your character  was a soldier with a biotic bonus talent then Kaidan says that he doesn't spike higher than you do.

Modifié par CodyMelch, 12 mai 2010 - 03:04 .

[NiftuCal]

CodyMelch wrote...

NiftuCal wrote...

heck it didnte make sense when you beat the AI on luna in ME1 and you
get a class upgrade. it didnt make sense when you started a new sheaprd
and got to pick a bonus talent. nobody in the game ever came up to me
and said " HEY SHEPARD. i hear your an adept but your carrying around a
sniper rifle! im telling udina on you!"

well if your character  was a soldier with a biotic bonus talent then Kaidan says that he doesn't spike higher than you do.

well thats becasue kaidens a ****. but it is weird that were limited and restricted for no reason. no reason at all other then the fact that the creators of ME like classes maybe?

i remember playing ME1 the first time. i had no idea what anything was or what anything did. a few weeks ago i pulled up my first ever (1st of 30ish characters) ME1 character for a 2nd run through and i found out that my level 38 adept had ZERO points in singularity, 12 points in shield boost, no subclass, no spectre weapons, and a dead wrex. thats about the exact opposite of what an adept should look like after a run through. the only thing i knew about singularity was its description, and that wasnt enough for me to warrant putting any points into on that first run through. i fell in love with ME1 after my first playthrough so i joined the forum and found out all this other crap i missed becasue im a casual gamer. you shouldnt have to buy a guide in order to play a video game. uuuhhh i forgot my point..............

[NiftuCal]

actually what i think would be the "best" would be if adepts and engineers didnt need weapons at all. id so so so love killing enemies with my biotics rather then just dong a bit of CC with them. i just played infamous on ps3 and cole never uses a weapon, he uses his abilities. why cant shepard do the same? id also like biopware to add the mapping all your abilities to the controller like infamouus had. why limit it to three buttons and why do you choose the 3 buttons we use.



the controller should be completely free for hotkeying different abilities. i never melee in ME2, ever. id rather have B be a 4th ability hotkey. shouldnt we have that freedom when playing games? fallout3 allowed us to hotkey our entire controller which was great.



i want to play ME3 without ever going into the power wheel/

[THEE_DEATHMASTER]

I think a good idea could be choose whatever weapons you want to specialize in. Soldier gets the most as expected but you don't have to be stuck with 2 pistols at the start like with the sentinel.

[Poison_Berrie]

The reason it doesn't work that way is gameplay balance.



An engineer or an Adept should focus on using their abilities first and foremost.

The pistol and SMG provide the basic combat uses (vs. shields/barrier and armor) while your abilities are the main focus.



Despite the soldiers obvious damage and health bonuses the scale would still tip in favor of the other classes if everyone carried the same weapons.



From a balancing aspect the current system seems easier and better.