133 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

I don't mind it, but I don't like the online requirement etc. Never have. If I want to pick up a game in ten years and play on a laptop in the middle of the desert without an internet connection, I want to be able to install it, play it with 'bonus' content and updates without any hassle.



Of course, what does it matter. The power of one is nothing more than a very good book. The power of many is nothing more than something to be stamped out.

[askanec]

GODzilla_GSPB wrote...

I recently learned something about us forum members: We are few in comparison to the many customers who blind-buy everything that is thrown before them.

I'm a member in one of the largest german gaming forums and most people I know there said they wont buy the map pack for CoD 2 - containing 5 maps, only 3 of them new, for 15€. Insane price! Who would be such an idiot to buy this, you might ask.

Latest news: Activision Blizzard sold 17 million map packs. They earned 255.000.000€ with a cheap map pack which was probably a days work!

90% of the players are idiots. And the developers / publishers know it. So what do you expect of them? Standing by and doing nothing while customers are robbed blind by other companies? No way! They want their fair share...

So .. just because some people don't agree with your purchasing decisions, that makes them idiots?

[bjdbwea]

Yeah, well - the Cerberus network didn't offer anything that I would "need". If they don't deliver anything better, this would certainly be no reason for me not to buy a game second-hand. So next time I'll perhaps just wait and see if the network (however it will be called then) offers something actually useful and worth the price.

[KitsuneRommel]

Darth Drago wrote...

Here is a quick question. Who provides GameStop with all these preorder exclusive codes or content? Isn’t it the game developers themselves?

If your trying to fight the used game business then maybe you shouldn’t give an incentive for costumers to shop there in the first place. It sounds like fighting a fire with gas to me.

Every new game I see advertised from GameStop has the preorder exclusive gimmick.

I wish we could get rid of the pre-order codes, collector's editions with tangible game advantages, non-free DLCs, etc too. Those are basically scams to get you pay more for same amount of content games used to have.

[grim_reaper_13]

scyphozoa wrote...

I hate Gamestop. Their markup on used games is near criminal and it is the only thing that keeps Gamestop solvent.

Gamestop is part of the archaic and outdated method of physical distribution that is holding back the video game industry. As soon as the next generation of consoles come out, the physical distribution of games should be reduced further.

The real future is buying digital copies of games directly from the developer and downloading them onto a harddrive.

Sure, you cannot resell them and that is fine for me because I only buy games I know I want to keep. Game rental should work the same way online, you rent the license for 5-10 days and when it expires the game is locked.

I'm sure many of you disagree with me, that is fine, I'm not here to convince anyone, I am just hoping we can accelerate and get to the next evolutionary step in game design ASAP.

Remember, ME2 was likely designed or heavily influenced by the space limitations of the Xbox DVD disc. I hate this, No game design should be compromised to accomodate a disc format. The sooner space limitations are removed the better games become for everyone.

Lastly, this is not to take the thread off-topic, Not every idea i've suggested here is directly related to EA's new plans to drive new-game sales, but my understanding is that used sales will never exist once we reach the digital promised land, so the longer we dither with physical copies the longer we will be subjected to game design that is compromised by space limitations.

Sorry mate but i disagree with your opinion.Digital distri wont replace anytime soon because of the size of a lot o todays games. Imagine having to download a 50 gb game if you have a ps3?
Also i myself am a collector.I like the archaic method and prefer to have a game with its box manual and everything.I have only bought 1 game digitally and dont think i will ever do it again just because i like looking at my collection :happy:.And games like Mass Effect you know you gotta have the Collectors Edition .

[KitsuneRommel]

grim_reaper_13 wrote...

Sorry mate but i disagree with your opinion.Digital distri wont replace anytime soon because of the size of a lot o todays games. Imagine having to download a 50 gb game if you have a ps3?
Also i myself am a collector.I like the archaic method and prefer to have a game with its box manual and everything.I have only bought 1 game digitally and dont think i will ever do it again just because i like looking at my collection :happy:.And games like Mass Effect you know you gotta have the Collectors Edition .

I buy most of my games digitally now. If I had saved every single game I bought I wouldn't have enough space to live here. Companies don't even bother adding a real manuals to games nowadays.

Computers and consoles I've had:
Philips Video Pack
Spectrum 48
Commodore 64
Sony MSX
Commodore Amiga
Playstation
Dreamcast
Playstation 2
XBOX 360
PCs (from 486 onward)

It would've been funny to see all the games for those in the same room.

Modifié par KitsuneRommel, 11 mai 2010 - 11:51 .

[Cyberstrike nTo]

scyphozoa wrote...

I hate Gamestop. Their markup on used games is near criminal and it is the only thing that keeps Gamestop solvent.

Gamestop is part of the archaic and outdated method of physical distribution that is holding back the video game industry. As soon as the next generation of consoles come out, the physical distribution of games should be reduced further.

The real future is buying digital copies of games directly from the developer and downloading them onto a harddrive.

Sure, you cannot resell them and that is fine for me because I only buy games I know I want to keep. Game rental should work the same way online, you rent the license for 5-10 days and when it expires the game is locked.

I'm sure many of you disagree with me, that is fine, I'm not here to convince anyone, I am just hoping we can accelerate and get to the next evolutionary step in game design ASAP.

Remember, ME2 was likely designed or heavily influenced by the space limitations of the Xbox DVD disc. I hate this, No game design should be compromised to accomodate a disc format. The sooner space limitations are removed the better games become for everyone.

Lastly, this is not to take the thread off-topic, Not every idea i've suggested here is directly related to EA's new plans to drive new-game sales, but my understanding is that used sales will never exist once we reach the digital promised land, so the longer we dither with physical copies the longer we will be subjected to game design that is compromised by space limitations.

Here is a newsflash for you: I LOVE DISKS AND HATE DOWNLOADS! When I buy a game, movie, book, or song I want something that I can actually touch and hold in my hands not a code on HD.
 
You want to waste your time and money on nothing that is your business, call me old fashioned but I want something that I can hold in my hands. 

[Daeion]

I must have missed what all of this is in regards to but I'm assuming it has something to do with Battle Field?



As for digital vs. physical, I do feel that digital distribution is the future but before things go all digital you essentially need to make sure that every potential customer has high speed internet and you need to deal with retail companies who don't want to loose major foot traffic to their stores.

[Icinix]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

(SNIP) 

Here is a newsflash for you: I LOVE DISKS AND HATE DOWNLOADS! When I buy a game, movie, book, or song I want something that I can actually touch and hold in my hands not a code on HD.
 
You want to waste your time and money on nothing that is your business, call me old fashioned but I want something that I can hold in my hands. 

DAMN STRAIGHT!!!
You and me, we can be friends.

[Icinix]

Scyphozoa - I agree with you it will be inevitable and it can't stopped. However I will fight by the skin of my teeth to hold it off as long as I can. Digital distribution, Cloud computing, these are dirty words to me.



Right up there with globalisation and privatisation.

[SarEnyaDor]

I love your sig, Icinix.



My two cents: I like hard copies, especially for pricier things. I get download only games from BigFish, little frau-frau games, arcade type games for wittling away the hours.



However for REAL games I like the Collector's Editions with the art books, bat-a-rangs, helmets and what-not.



I also really like that I can play a game that is 10 years old if I so choose to, and I often DO choose to do this. Good games are good even years later, and just as fun, and I would hate it if I tried to play Bloodlines or BG and I couldn't because online support no longer cared about the title. If it all goes digital that WILL happen.

[Icinix]

YES! ^^^THIS - The ability to pick up a game and play it whenever, wherever you want.



Imagine if UbiSoft goes belly up, how will people play their newer games? If Steam dissapears, how much potential money people have spent disssapear into the void? These are extreme, but it only takes a small drop in support to wipe out older games.

I have the disks for Spirit of Excalibur and Floor 13, they were 3 1/4 floppies that I still get out and install every now and then (They have since been burned to DVD due to wear and tear, god rest their souls). How will I be able to do that with the games that are out at the moment that require so much online / digital connections.

Great literature lasts hundreds of years because it's printed / written on physical paper. Hardcopy photos can linger in cabinets for decades. Hell, even VHS and Cassettes are still available. Digital distribution is only a few short years away from potentially wiping out accessibility to thousands of games, and thousands of dollars in purchases. Digital distribution / registration / DRM internet checking puts so much reliance on the servers of compaines that are just as fragile as the family owned deli down the road. Like Scyphozoa said, many of them are already running in the red and rely on new games to make money.

It might make sense now, but only from a money stand point, and it could see the dissapearance of great games. Much like the movie industry lost lots of good films in the early days that will never be seen again.



Yeah, it's probably a little bit extremist, but why take the risk?

[KitsuneRommel]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I also really like that I can play a game that is 10 years old if I so choose to, and I often DO choose to do this. Good games are good even years later, and just as fun, and I would hate it if I tried to play Bloodlines or BG and I couldn't because online support no longer cared about the title. If it all goes digital that WILL happen.

I have no qualms about "illegally" downloading a game I've already bought if I have thrown it away before. Just as I see no problem in getting a no-cd hack for a game I have.

Considering how you can still find games that are more than 20 years old I can't see them suddenly disappearing.

Modifié par KitsuneRommel, 11 mai 2010 - 01:41 .

[Icinix]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I also really like that I can play a game that is 10 years old if I so choose to, and I often DO choose to do this. Good games are good even years later, and just as fun, and I would hate it if I tried to play Bloodlines or BG and I couldn't because online support no longer cared about the title. If it all goes digital that WILL happen.

I have no qualms about "illegally" downloading a game I've already bought if I have thrown it away before. Just as I see no problem in getting a no-cd hack for a game I have.

Considering how you can still find games that are more than 20 years old I can't see them suddenly disappearing.

Getting games through those means is a whole different kettle of fish.  The issue is people who have paid for a game losing the ability to play it / access it legitamately down the track if / when support is canned.

This would effectively be driving loyal customers to one of two options.  One is don't play the game ever again, the other is do what any non-paying customer does.

Neither of those two options is particularly endearing to myself.

[Kangasniemi]

As for EA getting some money from used games sales, I think it's an exelent idea. And paying 10 $ or so isn't really going to kill you. The devolpers get a slice of used games sales and that's a win-win situation to all.



And as for digital vs. disk, it really doesn't matter any more. For example Steam games are installed by Steam wether or not they are digital or disk. So if Steam goes under, those priced disk of yours will become shiny coasters. So saying "I want disk and nothing else because Steam might go under in next 50 years" is quite stupid. Same thing goes for Ubisoft.



And as for collector aspect box versions look good on a self (not as good as the big boxes of the 90's) but the list of games in my Steam account looks just as impressive. (Of course the collector versions are a different thing entirely)

[Stanley Woo]

Moved to Off-Topic.

[mjkjets]

This new EA online development just saddens me even though I don't play their games anyway (except Bioware). I don't buy used games. I usually buy games new after the price drops ( got DA Awakenings for $28 a week ago). This wouldn't be so bad if EA stopped shutting down their servers a year after the release. I used to love playing sports games. EA is the reason I've lost interest.

It will be interesting to see EA sales numbers for their 2011 sports titles later this year.

Modifié par mjkjets, 11 mai 2010 - 04:43 .

[Blk_Mage_Ctype]

scyphozoa wrote...

I hate Gamestop. Their markup on used games is near criminal and it is the only thing that keeps Gamestop solvent.

Gamestop is part of the archaic and outdated method of physical distribution that is holding back the video game industry. As soon as the next generation of consoles come out, the physical distribution of games should be reduced further.

The real future is buying digital copies of games directly from the developer and downloading them onto a harddrive.

Sure, you cannot resell them and that is fine for me because I only buy games I know I want to keep. Game rental should work the same way online, you rent the license for 5-10 days and when it expires the game is locked.

I'm sure many of you disagree with me, that is fine, I'm not here to convince anyone, I am just hoping we can accelerate and get to the next evolutionary step in game design ASAP.

Remember, ME2 was likely designed or heavily influenced by the space limitations of the Xbox DVD disc. I hate this, No game design should be compromised to accomodate a disc format. The sooner space limitations are removed the better games become for everyone.

Lastly, this is not to take the thread off-topic, Not every idea i've suggested here is directly related to EA's new plans to drive new-game sales, but my understanding is that used sales will never exist once we reach the digital promised land, so the longer we dither with physical copies the longer we will be subjected to game design that is compromised by space limitations.

Meh, I HATE Digital Distribution... I'm okay with it as long as it remains optional, but the day that I no longer have the option to buy a physical copy of a game is the day I quit gaming.

As for ME2 being hampered by the size restrictions of DVDs, this problem could have been easily avoided if Bioware had've made the game for PS3, since a single layer Blu-Ray Disc holds 25GB of data, and a dual layer holds a whopping 50GB!
Furthermore, if all consoles next gen use Blu-Ray as their form of media, then storage will not be an issue. There is also a new type of storage disc in development called a Holographic Versatile Disc that is said to be able to hold up to 6TB of data, so we won't have to go DD in the future due to lack of storage space.

http://en.wikipedia...._Versatile_Disc

MerinTB wrote...Digital is the way of the future. And, IMO, that's a very good thing. You are being so ripped of by purchasing CDs, DVDs, etc.
Digital prices are still too high, IMO, but that will most likely change soon.

You can pine for your LPs and leaded gasoline and vaudville shows and horse buggies all you want.

Wow, can't get much more ignorant that that...

For you information, PS3 is available with up to a 260GB HDD, and furthermore, since PS3 uses a 2.5 SATA Laptop HDD, you can upgrade it as much as you want. I myself upgraded mine with a 320GB Western Digital 2.5 SATA HDD.
If you like DD then that's fine, but don't act so damn smug about it and devalue that options of others.

I prefer Physical Distribution, and frankly, even if Physical Media cost up to $20 more than a Digital Copy, I'd still buy the physical copy over the digital one.
The only games I even own digital versions of are old SNES games on the Wii's Virtual Console that are either incredibly rare or expensive in physical form, and PSone games off PSN that I don't already own on disc that are incredably rare or expensive in physical form.

And as I've already covered, HVD's can hold up to 6TB of data, (greater than any current harddrive) and will be cheaper than a new HDD.

If Bioware really has a space issue on DVDs that is hampering Mass Effect then they should move the series to PS3 immediately.

Modifié par Blk_Mage_Ctype, 11 mai 2010 - 04:45 .

[MerinTB]

Ryzaki wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Empiro wrote...
No matter what, a physical copy gives you the legal right to resell it or transfer ownership (by law, you can rent console games but not computer software), which is an advantage over any digital copy.
Like I said above, all these shenanigans by EA is just to get around that right.

Digital is the way of the future.  And, IMO, that's a very good thing.  You are being so ripped of by purchasing CDs, DVDs, etc.
Digital prices are still too high, IMO, but that will most likely change soon.

You can pine for your LPs and leaded gasoline and vaudville shows and horse buggies all you want.

Right because having something tangible is soooo ridculous. Also digital isn't going to take off until storage space becomes virtually limitless. As long as MS thinks they can charge ridculous prices for for HDDs for Xbox that's not gonna happen.

What you are complaining about is the state of console manufacturing.  You can call MS as greedy as you want, but the XBOX was the first gaming console to HAVE a HDD.  And the 360 was the first gaming console with replaceable HDD's and the ability to install your game fully on the HDD.  Go ahead and call them greedy for being the most forward moving, most "giving you want you want for storage space" of all the console manufacturers.

<_<

I, too, know how overpriced those HDD are for the 360.  It's MS trying to prevent game piracy (and failing miserably - these kind of tactics are known to only really hurt legitimate customers.)

I'm a PC gamer.  I've been building my own PC's for well over a decade.  I know how cheap storage is becoming, and between passport drives and USB stick in the gigabytes of storage capacity, physical media such as CDs and DVDs are unneccessary and cumbersome.

You want a "physical" product - the plastic disc?  Why?  Go buy yourself a stack of blank DVDs at Best Buy (@ $1 per disc if you want jewel cases, and no more than thirty cents per disc if you don't care about cases and a spindle-o-discs works for you.  Burn your digital copy onto the DVD.  Viola - same freaking thing.  Print yourself out some box art for the jewel case, and even with the ink you've used, you've done it cheaper than the game manufacturers are charging you for doing that.  IF YOU NEED THE DISC AND THE BOX ART.

Or, BETTER YET, realize that even with the game box and disc, you are paying for the DIGITAL FILES on the disc, and that you can store them on a flash drive or hard drive or your own DVD's (why, when they are so slow to burn, hold so little information, are so hard to rewrite) and that you can carry around a USB drive with a few games on it or a passport drive with dozens of games on it. *shrug*

Oh, I know, console gamers can't quite do this yet.  Console gamers also pay more per game than PC gamers.  I would feel sorry for console gamers if I didn't know that, in an effort to save a few bucks in the very short term they are costing themselves much more money for much more limited usability over the long term.

Seriously - this is the horse buggy whip manufacturer arguments.  "Those automobiles are fads, no one will want those."  Then landline industry. "Who wants a phone they can take everywhere?"  The game console industry. "Computers are too much a niche market - they'll never be in most homes."  The LP fans. "LPs sound better than CDs."  The book fans. "I like holding and smelling the book and the screen hurts my eyes."

Some things are here to stay once the technological advances come.  Complaining about how companies try to bilk you of money isn't actually addressing the new technology.  What you do is you support the companies that DON'T bilk you.  For example - if you don't want to be ripped off buying games, WHY THE FRAK are you buying gaming consoles?
Think on when Spielberg and the movie industry wanted to introduce DIV-X.  No, not what DIV-X is now, but what they wanted it to be - DVDs you "bought" that decayed until they wouldn't play, so you could have one for a day but then throw it away and have to "re-buy" it.  "It's for rental, so no more late fees," they would say - when really they want you to pay for each viewing if they could make you.  And think of the landfills.  No one wanted it, so it didn't happen.

---

In short, most of the arguments against a digital economy rest on resistance to change (I like my horse buggy!) or on dislike of how industry tries at every tech change to rig the system more in their favor (trying to make digital downloads of music cost the same as CDs (which themselves were horribly overpriced already.))

Honestly, if holding a jewel case with a plastic disc in it that you can't add information to means so much more to you than holding a small little piece of plastic in your hand (like I'm holding right now) that can hold 6 DVDs of data for the price of one console game and to which you can add or remove data with ease.... well, you and I have different definitions of what "worth" is.

Storage space is virtually limitless.  How much do you need?  You can get a 2 TB external HDD, size of a paperback book, for $120.  2 TB.  That's well over 400 DVDs of data.  Do you have 400 games?  I don't, but I have (between my various computers) about 12 TB of storage space that probably cost me.
What space I'm running out of is where to put my DVDs and CDs and Game boxes, THAT'S the space I'm running out of.

If I ever move again my Kindle is going to make it SO MUCH EASIER than haulin boxes and boxes of books.

Modifié par MerinTB, 11 mai 2010 - 04:35 .

[Outamyhead]

slimgrin wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

Sure, you cannot resell them and that is fine for me because I only buy games I know I want to keep.

 

How can you know you will like a game before you buy it? 

There's this wonderful thing called demo's, if you cannot find a demo of the game that you want to buy, it's probably crap...although I couldn't find a demo of DA:O anywhere besides STEAM, yet the game is bloomin' brilliant, good thing I took word of mouth over the EA logo on the advertisements.

Seeing as EA only makes one shot of profit from PC games that are bought, and from any additional DLC (they are $80 richer because of me), I think it's only fair that Gamestop got a preverbial swift kick in the nuts and EA took some profit from the second hand sales.

[BardHarbinger]

I buy games new. New games come with the code to have everything for free. So I'm not hurt in anyway. If I choose to buy a used game, I'll have no problem pay $10 for all the content because it will still be cheaper than buying the game new. I want video game companies to keep making games. If I can support them with my purchase, then I will.

[AlanC9]

Evewyn wrote...

Frankly, I have to agree with this.  A lot of gamers are young kids, teens, etc, and while maybe older gamers can see what's worth their money and what isn't, kids usually could care less.  They see a flashy commercial or ad and go nuts, while most adults are more reasonable.  

You sure? If anything, the teens I know are more cost-conscious than the adults, since they have less money. $6 or so is meaningless if you've got a decent job; anyone who's, say, buying a Starbucks coffee on the way to work rather than drinking the free stuff at the office isn't going to care about the cost of a DLC either. At some point trying to determine whether something is a waste of money is a waste of time, and people just don't bother doing it.

[SarEnyaDor]

I don't know, Merin, I wouldn't liken preferring books to kindle in the same category, really.

I like my books alot, and I pay extra to get the nice shiny hardbacks even though it is the same content as the kindle or cheaper MMP format. I like holding the books, I like reading by candle light when the power goes out during thunder storms. And the screen *DOES* hurt some people's eyes alot, hence the gaming glasses...

If game companies wouldn't pull their support for the digital games, I wouldn't care so much, but they do. And considering the climate we are in where people have worked places for 40+ years for retirement packages they were promised and them simply disappearing and the workers have no recourse, I have no doubts that even if game companies swore to keep support active into infinity that there would come a point when they'd decide not to, for whatever reason.

I am not against digital media, I am against not being able to have access to my merchandise whenever I want it for some arbitrary reason totally outside my control (like somebody deciding no one plays this 10 year old game, let's scrap support).

Besides, when the zombie apocalypse comes I'm going to be able to wipe with my books, keep warm with them, use them as weapons - I could fell entire hordes with Robert Jordon hardbacks, whereas if I toss my USB sticks at them they're just going to snicker at me.

Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 11 mai 2010 - 05:00 .