84 réponses à ce sujet

[HarlequinDream]

I guess I don't see the "planning life" thing as creepy (unless I'm wrong, I don't remember that dialogue and will definitely pay attention to it) since... Well, it wouldn't have ever happened, so it was just kind of idle imagining, not a "WE WILL DO THIS!" kind of thing.



I mean, I don't think it's that weird to kind of imagine "What if..."

[Addai]

HarlequinDream wrote...
But I think sans-torture, he wouldn't have been... terrifying. (Afterwards, definitely is. I just wanted to be sure that it wasn't irrational to find no reason to dislike Cullen {especially from female mage who has been semi-flirting with him perspective} until after meeting him in the Tower when you return.)

I don't consider it unreasonable for your PC to think that.  But part of what you can see when you return to the Tower, in my view, is how Cullen's attraction was so wracked with shame that the chance of a healthy relationship was always nil.

I mean, maybe if the Chantry suddenly crumbled into dust and Dr. Phil got teleported in, but barring that...

Modifié par Addai67, 11 mai 2010 - 10:50 .

[HarlequinDream]

Addai67 wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...
But I think sans-torture, he wouldn't have been... terrifying. (Afterwards, definitely is. I just wanted to be sure that it wasn't irrational to find no reason to dislike Cullen {especially from female mage who has been semi-flirting with him perspective} until after meeting him in the Tower when you return.)

I don't consider it unreasonable for your PC to think that.  But part of what you can see when you return to the Tower, in my view, is how Cullen's attraction was so wracked with shame that the chance of a healthy relationship was always nil.

I mean, maybe if the Chantry suddenly crumbled into dust and Dr. Phil got teleported in, but barring that...

Well, I should note that my mage isn't all there to begin with. She seems pretty normal until she helps Jowan, then the cracks start surfacing.

After Cullen goes off on her in the Tower? She washes her hands of the Tower and Templars, sacrifices Isolde to get into the Fade... and makes a deal with the demon in Connor for blood magic.

And it all goes downhill from there.

So she doesn't really have an unimpeachable view of things!

[Addai]

I do always figure my mages do be a little f'ed up in the relationship department. You're ripped from your family, or cast out, into the loving arms of the templars, then raised in a Stasi-like police state environment, with everyone looking over your shoulder to make sure you aren't dancing with demons.

In the Mages Asunder nightmare, there's one room where you can overhear the mages a bit. They say something like "We can't trust anybody, so the answer is- we kill. Kill everyone." Then they proceed to chuck fireballs at each other and you. It illustrates the paranoia that must be an undercurrent even between mages.

So while I wouldn't blame a femAmell or femSurana for fantasizing about the only men she knows, when you get free of that, why would you? I mean... what about the relatively stable former templar in your camp? LOL

Modifié par Addai67, 11 mai 2010 - 11:15 .

[BHRamsay]

Or the lusty Elf Assassin ... I kind of get the impression he really enjoyed the night he spent with the mage he was supposed to be killing but ended up having-his-way with.

[HarlequinDream]

My mage is too paranoid around Alistair. Almost getting killed for helping Jowan made her a bit ">.>" toward Templars, even former ones. And the conversation she heard with the mage didn't impress her.



Now, once she gets to know him, Zevran is another story.



Sure, she can't trust him at first. But she KNOWS she can't trust him. (Whereas she actually thinks Alistair's cunning enough to plan a betrayal.)

[Addai]

BHRamsay wrote...

Or the lusty Elf Assassin ... I kind of get the impression he really enjoyed the night he spent with the mage he was supposed to be killing but ended up having-his-way with.

And if it's an Amell, he gets another pair of "long, divine legs"!

[Carmen_Willow]

Herr Uhl wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Well, in the origin he's really shy and if you suggest going somewhere alone with him - to talk, of course - he runs away. It's kind of funny, actually. Until you meet him again and he's been tortured for days, he feels sorry for the mages and thinks the Templars are too hard on him. He really just comes off as a boy with an adorable crush on the PC. The 'planned out our lives together' part isn't revealed or even hinted at until the Broken Circle quest.

As a former naive boy, I'd go as far as bleeding adorable, I would have to say that planning out lives isn't that weird. Sometimes I miss my days of fantasizing about things that were PG friendly.

See, that's what I thought too. I mean, fantasies... aren't that uncommon. Whether they're intimate or life-plans.

Now, he's clearly lost it after the demon/blood mage torture, and all sympathy for him comes crashing down.

But I think sans-torture, he wouldn't have been... terrifying. (Afterwards, definitely is. I just wanted to be sure that it wasn't irrational to find no reason to dislike Cullen {especially from female mage who has been semi-flirting with him perspective} until after meeting him in the Tower when you return.)

Taking into consideration that he probably is a virgin and living in what is pretty much a boy club, he ought to have a good amount of "alone time" under his belt. Who should he think of then? There was no porn those days.

So the "planning life" thing was what I thought was the creepy part. Not imagining having sex with you.

And what sort of fantasies should a young man raised to be a knight/priest have? Clearly they wouldn't be realistic. Considering he's been made to take a vow of chastity what other sort of "normal" life could he have?  Only the one in his head...that's a survival mechanism. Cullen is a tragic figure.  Given a culture that gives their young to perpetual virginity without their consent, you have to expect that some of them create a complete alternate life in their heads, or run amuck, or sneak around, or run away, or get recruited into the Grey Wardens.  Had it not been for Duncan, Alistair could have ended up a Cullen.

Modifié par Carmen_Willow, 12 mai 2010 - 12:33 .

[Herr Uhl]

Do templars take wows of chastity?

Edit: I could see why they would, but I don't remember it being mentioned.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 12 mai 2010 - 12:41 .

[HarlequinDream]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Do templars take wows of chastity?

Edit: I could see why they would, but I don't remember it being mentioned.

They do.

Alistair makes a note to Lelianna that Duncan recruited him before he took his vows, and the Desire Demon in the Tower who has taken control of the Templar has done so by "giving" him a wife and family and she says he was resentful of the vows that kept him from having such things in life.

[soignee]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Do templars take wows of chastity?

Edit: I could see why they would, but I don't remember it being mentioned.

I'm leaning to yes, considering how Alistair is. Boy likes sex but never had the "oppurtunity."

[Herr Uhl]

Right-o then.



And I saw that opportunity remark as that all the women nearby were forbidden fruit, that is sweeter no?

[old book]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Do templars take wows of chastity?

Edit: I could see why they would, but I don't remember it being mentioned.

Good question. I wonder if it's explicitly stated someplace? We meet the Templar the Lust Demon has seduced with an illusion of a happy family life, so Cullen is hardly the only Templar dreaming of a normal life. Chantry Initiates take vows of celibacy, and sometimes break them. In The Calling we see that at least some Mages manage to have an active sex life. Wynne tells us that the Mages are forced to sneak around, and that if a female mage has a child the Chantry will take it away (which makes her willingness to submit to the chantry deeply disturbing imo).

[HarlequinDream]

old book wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Do templars take wows of chastity?

Edit: I could see why they would, but I don't remember it being mentioned.

Good question. I wonder if it's explicitly stated someplace? We meet the Templar the Lust Demon has seduced with an illusion of a happy family life, so Cullen is hardly the only Templar dreaming of a normal life. Chantry Initiates take vows of celibacy, and sometimes break them. In The Calling we see that at least some Mages manage to have an active sex life. Wynne tells us that the Mages are forced to sneak around, and that if a female mage has a child the Chantry will take it away (which makes her willingness to submit to the chantry deeply disturbing imo).

I believe it is stated by the Desire Demon.

She says that if she were to leave the Templar, he'd return to the resentment of his vows and desire for a family.

So at the very least, it's heavily implied that Templars are forced into chastity.

And yes, it disturbs me greatly that Wynne is so pro-Chantry and yet they take a woman's child away. And took hers. So it's not just an abstract. She's had experience with it.

[sassperella]

I've played that scene with cullen trapped in the tower with a mage a couple of times now and never seen a dialog about planning out a life.... must be choosing the wrong options I suppose.

Modifié par sassperella, 12 mai 2010 - 03:03 .

[ashez2ashes]

I was surprised that Gaider said he as a stalker-ish character.... He came across to me as rather shy and awkward in the beginning, and after he's driven insane by torture he gets a moral pass from me. He'd still need to be put down if no matter of reasoning can reach him, but tortured into insanity doesn't really equal a bad person in my mind....

[Ymladdych]

Yeah, I personally never got the stalker vibe from him either. To me he seems like a sweet and awkward guy who joined a religious order and found his faith challenged by his attraction to the female mage. And yes, that probably means that he fantasized about her...but that's actually pretty normal. However, I also can see him praying to the Maker while he's doing the deed in the hopes of purging his lust. Or maybe some type of self-flagellation as penance.

Those last thoughts are pretty disturbing, but even so, there's no way of knowing whether his breakdown was inevitable. The demons tortured him for days and mentally hit him where he was most vulnerable. Poor Cullen suffered from a serious case of bad moral luck, as far as I'm concerned. (The theme of the game for a lot of characters, IMHO.)

***Edit: Bah...formatting.

Modifié par Ymladdych, 12 mai 2010 - 04:11 .

[Addai]

ashez2ashes wrote...

I was surprised that Gaider said he as a stalker-ish character.... He came across to me as rather shy and awkward in the beginning, and after he's driven insane by torture he gets a moral pass from me. He'd still need to be put down if no matter of reasoning can reach him, but tortured into insanity doesn't really equal a bad person in my mind....

It's not a question of being a good or bad person.  It's more like, what would you think if you saw this guy standing in your doorway unexpectedly on a dark and rainy night?

Something like "I'm too young to die."

[Lintanis]

Herr Uhl wrote...

soignee wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

Wow. That sort of kills the Cullen fantasy, huh?

Yeah I don't Get The Cullen Thing. Creepy stalker is creepy.

And here I thought that it was a sign that the ladies had started to like being stalked, creepily.

*scratches from notebook of useless facts picked up on the internets*

Thats why u dont trust what you read on wikipedia stick to google 

[sassperella]

so when is the 'planning life' creepy dialogue with cullen, is it when he's imprisoned? I've never had that conversation on my mage and thought I'd tried all the options.

[Nu-Nu]

I thought Cullen was a nobody and couldn't understand why there are fics about him.   I guess I have to play as mage and see what's all the fuss is about

Modifié par Nu-Nu, 12 mai 2010 - 03:13 .

[maxernst]

Did I race through the mage origin too quickly? I talked to Cullen once during it and he just sort of stammered a lot, so I had the impression he had something for me, but that was it. I was too focused on Jowan's problems to fool around with him--not that my mage would be much inclined to do anything with a Templar.

[Addai]

Nu-Nu wrote...

I thought Cullen was a nobody and couldn't understand why there a fics about him.   I guess I have to play as mage and see what's all the fuss is about

Oh, right- if you haven't played a female mage then he is just the guy who can help you slaughter the mages if you decide to do that in Broken Circle.  As female mage (or male with mods, I hear), you get special dialogues with him in the origin and when you find him right before confronting Uldred.

I think the line that is most telling to me there is "I'm a templar and you're a mage- it is my duty to oppose all that you are."  Alrighty then.

Hence some of us being confused about the Cullen-romance fanfics.

[Sarah1281]

I wonder if his name is supposed to be telling.