44 réponses à ce sujet

[jimian]

ya only need enough strength to weild or wear. once your dex is 24(i think) u get the talent that trades ur cun in for ya str. so yeah that works plus ya get the high cun for other stuff. kinda along the same lines as an aw gettin to use mag as strength. its a 3rd tier talent. cant member the name of it now. just read the details in ur board. it works

[traversc]

I'm going to stay away from the DPS argument, since I've already made my opinion clear.  But let's try to stay Away From the Flamebating, alright, Yrkoon? 

Since they do more damage than their melee enemies,  and  since they have an entire repetoir of CC talents   (including Area of effect talents, like 2-h sweep, which makes all the hostiles near them on the battlefield fall on their asses), and  since they're the ONLY  warrior style which gets immunity to stun, knockdown and pull, tell me again,  what's wrong with a heavily armored 2-hander  getting more  aggro?

You mean Area of Effect talent (singular).  Otoh, basically correct: as far as 2H tanking, 2H probably makes a better tank than S/S.  At least in the base game.  Here are a few tidbits, which I haven't seen mentioned:

• stun immunity means you will lose your dex less often, which puts you back on par with S/S for defense. 
• Critical hits are not dependent on STR. 
• Scattershot - is one of the best tanking skills available in the game. 

Also, IN's excellent 2H tanking guide: http://dragonage.wik...native_Approach

[beancounter501]

I don't know about the whole grandma 2 Hand dex warrior tank. Sounds horribly boring to play. But from a power gaming side going max dex would mean that most everyone would pass the resistance check on your sweep and pommel strike. Making you basically a worthless turd character. Oh but you get Knockdown and stun immunity. OK, but who cares you do no real dmg anyways.



Sorry Trav just can not resist! Now, a max str and max armor 2 Hand warrior makes a decent tank. Err, meant to say a decent character to kill stuff. Which matters a whole lot more then tanking. No need to gimp your party with a tank in this game. Dead people don't do dmg.

[traversc]

Not to disparage your playstyle, but tanking does not necessarily mean slower play or less party-DPS at all - even if your 2Her would do more DPS with more STR.

[Yrkoon]

traversc wrote...

Not to disparage your playstyle, but tanking does not necessarily mean slower play or less party-DPS at all.

  It does, actually. 

  if you assign a character to be your tank, and he happens to be unhittable,  and unhurtable  then great.  You've got yourself the beginnings of a tank.     But if  he lacks  a good offense -- the ability to take the enemy down to zero health quickly, then he's not a tank.  He's just  a meat shield. 

And I don't know about you , but  I don't send my warriors into battle  to survive, I send them into battle to DESTROY

Modifié par Yrkoon, 20 mai 2010 - 12:01 .

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

You guys miss the point of a 2 Hander which is to be a DPS, there's really no need for any dex at all since you'll be clearing out most mobs with 1-3 hits by end game. The only defence you'll need would be a decent massive or heavy armour to hold you out besides by the time you get Sweeping strike, mobs won't even touch you.

[AuraofMana]

2H = pump Strength and nothing else. This is the most efficient way.

[d3c0yBoY]

Str contributes to Dmg and Atk for the 2handed rapist. As most have been saying, go Str all the way. Anything else is suboptimal, unless you enjoy that sort of thing.



/close thread

[DragonRageGT]

While the pure STR thing is true and my best char is one of them, (zerker/champ) which I got very nicely built with no DLC items on his 3rd run thru the game (same char recreated 3x), I'm playing a 2h Templar/? atm, female elf so I thought of giving her some DEX for bow usage as well and well, she's an elf. While she's still level 10, it's being fun to play her and by no means she's worse than the pure STR. Sure, she can't deliver the same dmg per hit but she has other qualities as well.

Check out my zerker/champ v1.3 here: http://bit.ly/aXCQzz (short link for my char page here at Social Bioware)

Watch him here:

Dragon Age - Fast Nightmare Dragon Kill

The templar is on my char page and I might do some movies with her because she truly rox!

(PS: I only play NM and all my chars have zero injury, but one that has 1 due to some chest quest. Of course the first version of my zerk champ ended up with over 20 injuries in Normal diff... that was my 1st run with the game... =)

Modifié par RageGT, 21 mai 2010 - 04:30 .

[d3c0yBoY]

^Woot! Looking forward to it Rage. Started a Dwarven 2hander as well with thoughts of going Tem/Rav. Archery you say? I reckon you might be dipping into Scattershot? Keep us updated since that zerk/champ in my opinion is the iconic build ;-D Had one myself but I hated their look...what this game does to me, sigh.

[Tirigon]

Since this has become much about tanking, too, here´s my approach on tanking:

1) Use Shale in defense mode, activate threaten, taunt ===> everyone hits her
2) Forcefield her ====> no damage taken at all.
3) FREE BACKSTABS ALL THE WAY!

Considering that my main char rogue hits for 80 - 120 with 2 daggers and has an insane attackspeed (thanks, momentum!) + flaming weapons + 3 damage runes + poison if necessary I can kill every lieutenant, multiple mobs or even some bosses before they switch targets or force field ends, this makes most fights too easy.
The fact that I have 1 char less to do damage doesn´t hurt my DPS; In fact, more backstabs and less miss by my rogue actually increases my DPS by a lot.


Alternatively, you can go for a full Arcane Warrior; I made Oghren in one (using a mod) just to try, and it´s AWESOME!!!
He has 50 armor and over 100 defense while still being my second best DPS char with haste + hits for 80.
(To compare: Sten and Alistair both have about 30 armor, 70 / 95 defense and 50 / 60 damage with comparable equipment)

Modifié par Tirigon, 21 mai 2010 - 05:37 .

[DragonRageGT]

Re Trigon comment on insane attack speed, it may be known but I didn't know that Haste + Swift Salve stack. I thought it would be like Momentum + Haste which nullifies each other.



My Dual Dagger Rogue who went over to Awakening with lots of swift salves from Origins and with a Mage with haste in the party, she was the fastest backstabbing biatch eva! =)

[Unrefined-Nemesis]

2H Warrior main primary focus is to dispatch and slaughter enemies in 1 to 5 hits excluding bosses. Dexterity is totally pointless and counter the purpose of the class overall, if you want a warrior with a perfect balance of offence and defence then Dual Wielding the the class and style of play for you.

Dexterity does not affect the hit rate/accuracy of the 2H skill tree as it is purely dependant on Strength, there are no requirements for dexterity in the skill tree at all therefore you would be wasting precious offensive power of your warrior. Failing the purpose of having a quick kill.

Defence for a 2H is already covered by your strong offence since you are already dispatching enemies with minimum amount of hits and the catches of your 2H being hit before the enemy falls is basically low to zero by the time they are about to hit you they're already dead. Massive armour already has reduced the amount of damage significantly.

The reason why Indomitable is there and is a cheap but essential talent is for the 2H warrior to constantly deal damage quickly ignoring defence as your offence is your main defence. That is the reason why the other talent trees do not have the benefit of knock down and stun immunity as they have appropriate amount of defence while the 2H warrior does not and is reliant heavily on his Equipment and items in stock.

2H playing style is basically for those who want a really strong offence, it was never meant to be a defensive style at all. 

2H way of tanking is to kill in a single hit and not drag the battle longer.

Modifié par Unrefined-Nemesis, 29 mai 2010 - 07:47 .

[traversc]

Yrkoon wrote...

traversc wrote...

Not to disparage your playstyle, but tanking does not necessarily mean slower play or less party-DPS at all.

  It does, actually. 

  if you assign a character to be your tank, and he happens to be unhittable,  and unhurtable  then great.  You've got yourself the beginnings of a tank.     But if  he lacks  a good offense -- the ability to take the enemy down to zero health quickly, then he's not a tank.  He's just  a meat shield. 

And I don't know about you , but  I don't send my warriors into battle  to survive, I send them into battle to DESTROY

Sorry, but that's simply not correct.  Having a tank means less scatter, less pressure on your backline, more AoE-burst effect by your nukers and less time wasted babysitting with heals.  Any seasoned mamorpagah player will tell you this.  The same is definitely true in DAO, although obviously not to the extent that it actually matters. 

Modifié par traversc, 29 mai 2010 - 07:56 .

[nigh]

I don't have much calculating advice here. informative read nevertheless.

[Elhanan]

Based upon Attribute info, adding DEX will increase Defense by spending possible STR bonus dmg; all else remains the same, I believe:



http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Attributes



Making an informed choice.....

[Last Darkness]

Ummm am I the only one who has a two hand warrior tank that is all Str? I use Threaten+Aura of Pain and nothing leaves me plus Taunt is significaly better with my Reaver/Champion setup. I use Nugcrusher since it has the same damage stats as the chasind great maul and +stamina.
With Morrigan healing him theres no problem and he holds aggro better then my almost pure dex sword and shield tank does.


***EDIT***
@Tirigon, highest possible attack speed is Momentum+Blood Thirst = The +50% cap.
Momentum adds+30% attack speed and blood thirst adds +20% attack speed stacking.  In addition to +25% dps, and +10% crit chance.  Used a two hand warrior with Blightblood, Keening, Starfang combo up somehow depending on whats availible to you does insane damage.

Modifié par Last Darkness, 03 juin 2010 - 10:52 .

[beancounter501]

2 Hand Warriors do not benfit that much from double haste. Sunder Armor/Sunder Arms is basically a double haste attack already. Throw in a 2 Hand Sweep and 3 out of four attacks are basically occuring at MORE then double haste speed. Sure you may get one or two extra attacks over 20 seconds, but that is mana that your mage is better off spending to do dmg.

[Yrkoon]

traversc wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

traversc wrote...

Not to disparage your playstyle, but tanking does not necessarily mean slower play or less party-DPS at all.

  It does, actually. 

  if you assign a character to be your tank, and he happens to be unhittable,  and unhurtable  then great.  You've got yourself the beginnings of a tank.     But if  he lacks  a good offense -- the ability to take the enemy down to zero health quickly, then he's not a tank.  He's just  a meat shield. 

And I don't know about you , but  I don't send my warriors into battle  to survive, I send them into battle to DESTROY

Sorry, but that's simply not correct.  Having a tank means less scatter, less pressure on your backline, more AoE-burst effect by your nukers and less time wasted babysitting with heals. . 

ALL of that... everything you're describing  is best achieved by ending the battle as quickly as possible.  And you do that by inflicting Damage.  And  2-handers achieve the highest damage output with.... what?   That's right!  Strength.

You said it yourself on  Page one:  2-Handers make good tanks.  Well?  They most certainly do.    And  they do because they have   Immunities, CC skills and the destructive power to  take on the  front line mobs  and  eliminate them quickly.  But without focussing exclusively on strength you're weakening   all their abilities.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 04 juin 2010 - 03:08 .

[Last Darkness]

Yrkoon wrote...

traversc wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

traversc wrote...

Not to disparage your playstyle, but tanking does not necessarily mean slower play or less party-DPS at all.

  It does, actually. 

  if you assign a character to be your tank, and he happens to be unhittable,  and unhurtable  then great.  You've got yourself the beginnings of a tank.     But if  he lacks  a good offense -- the ability to take the enemy down to zero health quickly, then he's not a tank.  He's just  a meat shield. 

And I don't know about you , but  I don't send my warriors into battle  to survive, I send them into battle to DESTROY

Sorry, but that's simply not correct.  Having a tank means less scatter, less pressure on your backline, more AoE-burst effect by your nukers and less time wasted babysitting with heals. . 

ALL of that... everything you're describing  is best achieved by ending the battle as quickly as possible.  And you do that by inflicting Damage.  And  2-handers achieve the highest damage output with.... what?   That's right!  Strength.

You said it yourself on  Page one:  2-Handers make good tanks.  Well?  They most certainly do.    And  they do because they have   Immunities, CC skills and the destructive power to  take on the  front line mobs  and  eliminate them quickly.  But without focussing exclusively on strength you're weakening   all their abilities.

I agree 100%

Kinda funny though that built for damage Duel wield and sword and shield are very close or better damage wise. Personal flavour and Indomitable vrs Shield Wall for your defensive abilities.