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[Time Well Spent]

 "Humanity has reached the stars, joining the vast galactic community of alien species. But beyond the fringes of explored space lurk the Reapers, a race of sentient starships bent on “harvesting” the galaxy’s organic species for their own dark purpose.The Illusive Man, leader of the pro-human black ops group Cerberus, is one of the few who know the truth about the Reapers. To ensure humanity’s survival, he launches a desperate plan to uncover the enemy’s strengths—and weaknesses—by studying someone implanted with modified Reaper technology. He knows the perfect subject for his horrific experiments: former Cerberus operative Paul Grayson, who wrested his daughter from the cabal’s control with the help of Ascention project director Kahlee Sanders.But when Kahlee learns that Grayson is missing, she turns to the only person she can trust: Alliance war hero Captain David Anderson. Together they set out to find the secret Cerberus facility where Grayson is being held. But they aren’t the only ones after him. And time is running out.As the experiments continue, the sinister Reaper technology twists Grayson’s mind. The insidious whispers grow ever stronger in his head, threatening to take over his very identity and unleash the Reapers on an unsuspecting galaxy"


Can't wait for this book to come out, great that Anderson will be in it too, will his involvement mean this story will have a huge bearing in ME3? Will it set up ME3?

So, is Harbinger gonna take over Grayson? Will this book be important for ME3?

Modifié par Time Well Spent, 11 mai 2010 - 10:23 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Seriously i think this time Retribution will remain only as book without any influence on ME 3 story.

Mac Walters team blown too much steam to try bleach Cerberus in ME 2 to allowing ME 3 showing true face of TiM and Cerberus as was showed in ME 1, so no, again i don't think that this book will have any serious influence on ME 3.

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 11 mai 2010 - 10:29 .

[Dean_the_Young]

TIM's true face was never shown in ME1, literally or figuratively. You never had any insight of the people or the organization from the inside except a precious few of their worst happenings, a number of which were undergone when Cerberus was still accepted as a secret part of the Alliance. If you accept ME1 as the true face of Cerberus, your are very much cherry picking only part of the picture and willingly blind yourself to the rest.



ME2 is where you see the true face of Cerberus: a group that can do great good and great evil by normal people with strong desires. That people with good intentions can do great harm should make them more, not less, horrific to you.

[Asheer_Khan]

@Dean.

IF Me 2 is true face of Cerberus then please explain me WHY there is not a single chance to ask Miranda, Jacob or TiM himself about ME 1 events including Akuze (for sole survivors) and murdering of Adm Kahoku?



Because this was NO GO policy for new ME lead writer...

Way too many people on this forum fall in love whit that freaky blue eyes of TiM ONLY because of great (i admit) acting of Mr Sheen... but i live on this world too long and saw too many things to trust guy who will stab me in my back by first opportunity because he will decide that keeping me around become too risky for his operations.

[Onyx Jaguar]

For the last time Admiral Kahoku was a traitor to the Alliance no one will mourn his death.

[Asheer_Khan]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

For the last time Admiral Kahoku was a traitor to the Alliance no one will mourn his death.

NO COMMENT.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Seriously you guys need to go back to ME 1 and play that quest line. Kahoku promised classified ALliance Intelligence to Agents of the Shadow Broker.



VERY DEFINITION OF A TRAITOR

[TudorWolf]

The fact Anderson can potentially be a councilor when the events take place make me wonder how Drew is going to keep the continuity as he did in Ascension.

[Dean_the_Young]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

@Dean.
IF Me 2 is true face of Cerberus then please explain me WHY there is not a single chance to ask Miranda, Jacob or TiM himself about ME 1 events including Akuze (for sole survivors) and murdering of Adm Kahoku?

Because this was NO GO policy for new ME lead writer...

Or it could simply be short writing, like how they shrifted most the other origins as well. All the other origin stories, in fact, and most the other side quests. As an optional sidequest, Kohaku wouldn't get much focus regardless, any more than the other optionals. For example, I had a good interview in ME1 with the aggressive reporter and Hacket told me she was impressed, but in ME2 Shepard will always act like he hates her.

Most sidequests will never matter, short and simple. While Akuze seems like a big short fall, it was neither unique in the least nor would blaming Cerberus alone be enough. Why can't I ask and blame Anderson or Hackett about it, even in ME1? Cerberus was still an actual wing of the Alliance back then

All of which is actually irrelevant to whether ME2 is Cerberus's true face or not. You certainly haven't made a case how ME1 is all there is to Cerberus,

Way too many people on this forum fall in love whit that freaky blue eyes of TiM ONLY because of great (i admit) acting of Mr Sheen... but i live on this world too long and saw too many things to trust guy who will stab me in my back by first opportunity because he will decide that keeping me around become too risky for his operations.

Most people hate TIM. I can't think of too many who love him, as opposed to accept him as another of those necessary evils in the ME universe.

As for using others, Mordin sums it up quite well in his initial introduction: all relationships between people are using others to get what we want. Militaries have made sending the lives of children and parents into danger and death a well-respected profession.

[Time Well Spent]

The Illusive Man may be messing with forces he may not be able to control. The Illusive Man isn't straight up evil, or good, he's more complex than that, operating in a morally grey area. Not saying that the whole Grayson/Reaper business is a good idea though, when does implanting a Human subject with the technology of a hostile race of sentient machines ever net good results.

[Dean_the_Young]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Seriously you guys need to go back to ME 1 and play that quest line. Kahoku promised classified ALliance Intelligence to Agents of the Shadow Broker.

VERY DEFINITION OF A TRAITOR

Khan has also refused to accept that Shepard committed a capital offense in ME1 by stealing the Normandy, even though it was an actual drama-building plot point.

[Time Well Spent]

TudorWolf wrote...

The fact Anderson can potentially be a councilor when the events take place make me wonder how Drew is going to keep the continuity as he did in Ascension.

Especially as this is set post ME2. Actually, this makes me wonder ho it will be handled.

[Big I]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Seriously you guys need to go back to ME 1 and play that quest line. Kahoku promised classified ALliance Intelligence to Agents of the Shadow Broker.

VERY DEFINITION OF A TRAITOR

Why did he do that? Because a rogue Alliance intelligence agency killed his men and were trying to kill him. At worst, he's a whistleblower.

My theory is when they were coming up with the broad structure for the trilogy they envisioned the Shadow Broker in the position of the Illusive Man, i.e. saving Shepard and helping him fight the Collectors. It would explain why they made it seem like the Shadow Broker supported Galactic stability in ME but made him kick a puppy in ME2 (got Thane's wife killed, tried to sell Shepard to the Collectors, screwed over Liara), and why Cerberus start out as unambiguosly evil in ME but was presented more positively in ME2. Plus, the Shadow Broker and the Illusive Man essentially have the same jobs, intelligence gathering.

To me, Cerberus will always be the people who killed Kahoku, Chasca, and the unit on Akuze. I think using them as Shepard's support structure was a misstep, especially since you can't even raise those things with Cerberus personnel. From an in-game perspective, you can't trust them to do anything except get people killed and make matter worse.

[uhdnrt]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

For the last time Admiral Kahoku was a traitor to the Alliance no one will mourn his death.

You are a filthy liar.  He was not a traitor.  He died a hero, slain by the despicable Cerberus group.  We have only the Shadow Broker's word that Kahoku was going to give him intel.  The Shadow broker is not a credible source.  Especially considering the issues (from multiple sources) of the feud between SB and Cerberus.

Other than a non-credible source's statement, there is no proof Kohaku was anything other than a hero.

[Onyx Jaguar]

uhdnrt wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

For the last time Admiral Kahoku was a traitor to the Alliance no one will mourn his death.

You are a filthy liar.  He was not a traitor.  He died a hero, slain by the despicable Cerberus group.  We have only the Shadow Broker's word that Kahoku was going to give him intel.  The Shadow broker is not a credible source.  Especially considering the issues (from multiple sources) of the feud between SB and Cerberus.

Other than a non-credible source's statement, there is no proof Kohaku was anything other than a hero.

Read my other post.  Play Mass Effect 1.  He put the Alliance in a dangerous position because he promised Agents of the Shadow Broker Intelligence that was confidential to the Alliance.  Kahoku was a traitor and would have been dealt with one way or the other.

EDIT:  Even if the Shadow Broker wasn't a credible source it was rather convenient, Kahoku didn't do much either than dying.  Am I suppose to take his word on it that Cerberus went Rogue?  How do we know that it did?  Perhaps it didn't and they were declared rogue because of his actions.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 12 mai 2010 - 03:56 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Seriously you guys need to go back to ME 1 and play that quest line. Kahoku promised classified ALliance Intelligence to Agents of the Shadow Broker.

VERY DEFINITION OF A TRAITOR

Why did he do that? Because a rogue Alliance intelligence agency killed his men and were trying to kill him. At worst, he's a whistleblower.

My theory is when they were coming up with the broad structure for the trilogy they envisioned the Shadow Broker in the position of the Illusive Man, i.e. saving Shepard and helping him fight the Collectors. It would explain why they made it seem like the Shadow Broker supported Galactic stability in ME but made him kick a puppy in ME2 (got Thane's wife killed, tried to sell Shepard to the Collectors, screwed over Liara), and why Cerberus start out as unambiguosly evil in ME but was presented more positively in ME2. Plus, the Shadow Broker and the Illusive Man essentially have the same jobs, intelligence gathering.

To me, Cerberus will always be the people who killed Kahoku, Chasca, and the unit on Akuze. I think using them as Shepard's support structure was a misstep, especially since you can't even raise those things with Cerberus personnel. From an in-game perspective, you can't trust them to do anything except get people killed and make matter worse.

The  Shadow Broker would sell that information to any agency that would use it against the Alliance or Humanity in general if the price was right.

[kraidy1117]

Theres still alot we don`t know of TIM and Bioware has already comfirmed there is a stoy behind his eyes and plus we still don`t know why he is doing what he does. Something had to happen to change him into what he is. Love the people who say the books are non canon, always makes me laugh.

Modifié par kraidy1117, 12 mai 2010 - 03:58 .

[kraidy1117]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Seriously you guys need to go back to ME 1 and play that quest line. Kahoku promised classified ALliance Intelligence to Agents of the Shadow Broker.

VERY DEFINITION OF A TRAITOR

Khan has also refused to accept that Shepard committed a capital offense in ME1 by stealing the Normandy, even though it was an actual drama-building plot point.

Wait, what? I thought it was common knowledge that what Shepard did was a capital offense(even if Shepard was right, the Alliance could have been pricks)

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Or it could simply be short writing, like how they shrifted most the other origins as well. All the other origin stories, in fact, and most the other side quests. As an optional sidequest, Kohaku wouldn't get much focus regardless, any more than the other optionals. For example, I had a good interview in ME1 with the aggressive reporter and Hacket told me she was impressed, but in ME2 Shepard will always act like he hates her.

Most sidequests will never matter, short and simple. While Akuze seems like a big short fall, it was neither unique in the least nor would blaming Cerberus alone be enough. Why can't I ask and blame Anderson or Hackett about it, even in ME1? Cerberus was still an actual wing of the Alliance back then.

Stupid if you ask me. Your personal background should greatly effect your status as an person. If your butcherer, you get called one, if your an sole surivior, you should be like "Cerbersus? Bam bam bam bam. O look, I shot TIM in the face for killing my Squad." I am sorry, no exause there for the sole Surivior. That was ignorantly stupid writing in general not to include some type of response to your background. Sloppy mistake if you ask me. Same with the other backgrounds if they include them in some way. These are general known facts that are very well known by the ME universe.

Had I been ressurrected by an orginization that I knew murdered my squad, I would probably shoot first and ask questions later, and when I did eventually get to talk to Illusive Man, I should be like Why should I trust you (since you got 50 alliance marines) killed on Akzue.

A simple Rebuttal from TIM could easily have been "We were under different leadership then, It was not my decision. Cerbersus has changed it ways. The Cerbersus you knew, is gone."

Two- three lines of diologue, boom and bam, life is good. I dont know about the other backgrounds... but I think it could have been easily accomdating. If not, then there is no point including these backgrounds and they shouldn't exist. Everything has to have an purpose and play out in some way otherwise, there is no point to it. You don't make an basket weaving skill if there is no point to making baskets, cause then no one uses it or even sees the point in doing it. I might as well randomly click on an background.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 12 mai 2010 - 05:02 .

[kraidy1117]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Or it could simply be short writing, like how they shrifted most the other origins as well. All the other origin stories, in fact, and most the other side quests. As an optional sidequest, Kohaku wouldn't get much focus regardless, any more than the other optionals. For example, I had a good interview in ME1 with the aggressive reporter and Hacket told me she was impressed, but in ME2 Shepard will always act like he hates her.

Most sidequests will never matter, short and simple. While Akuze seems like a big short fall, it was neither unique in the least nor would blaming Cerberus alone be enough. Why can't I ask and blame Anderson or Hackett about it, even in ME1? Cerberus was still an actual wing of the Alliance back then.

Stupid if you ask me. Your personal background should greatly effect your status as an person. If you butcherer, you get called one, if you an sole surivior, you should be like "Cerbersus? Bam bam bam bam. O look, I shot TIM in the face for killing my Squad." I am sorry, no exause there for the sole Surivior. That was ignorantly stupid writing in general not to include some type of response to your background. Hand I been ressurrected by an orginization that I knew murdered my crew, I would probably shoot first and ask questions later, and when I did eventually get to talk to Illusive Man, I should be like Why should I trust you (since you got 50 alliance marines) killed on Akzue.

A simple Rebuttal from TIM could easily have been "We were under different leadership then, It was not my decision. Cerbersus has changed it ways. I have changed Cerbersus."

Two- three lines of diologue, boom and bam, life is good. I dont know about the other backgrounds... but I think it could have been easily accomdating.

This really did`t bug me as I was a war hero in my canon Shepard, however when I imported a sole survior Shepard I was disapointed  that you could not say anything.

[uhdnrt]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Read my other post.  Play Mass Effect 1.  He put the Alliance in a dangerous position because he promised Agents of the Shadow Broker Intelligence that was confidential to the Alliance.  Kahoku was a traitor and would have been dealt with one way or the other.

Proof?  Again, the only "proof" you have is the word of an agent of the Shadow Broker - it is not a strong argument.

EDIT:  Even if the Shadow Broker wasn't a credible source it was rather convenient, Kahoku didn't do much either than dying.  Am I suppose to take his word on it that Cerberus went Rogue?  How do we know that it did?  Perhaps it didn't and they were declared rogue because of his actions.

When playing through the game, it is more than kohaku - the codex also mentions Cerberus - THAT is a credible source since it is from multiple sources.  Not just Kohaku's missions.

Your argument is invalid.  There is only your flawed argument from a discredited source.  Everything else points to Kohaku being the victim, and a hero to the alliance.  Cerberus is aproven, morally reprehensible organization who's "ends justifies the means" makes it no better than Saren's operations on Noveria.

[enormousmoonboots]

Goddammit I hope they stop with the R_______ titles soon, I keep mixing them up.



You know I am pretty sure nobody was calling Kahoku a traitor before ME2 (pre-Martin Sheen TIM).



what I am implying here is that you are all gay for Martin Sheen

[Onyx Jaguar]

uhdnrt wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Read my other post.  Play Mass Effect 1.  He put the Alliance in a dangerous position because he promised Agents of the Shadow Broker Intelligence that was confidential to the Alliance.  Kahoku was a traitor and would have been dealt with one way or the other.

Proof?  Again, the only "proof" you have is the word of an agent of the Shadow Broker - it is not a strong argument.

EDIT:  Even if the Shadow Broker wasn't a credible source it was rather convenient, Kahoku didn't do much either than dying.  Am I suppose to take his word on it that Cerberus went Rogue?  How do we know that it did?  Perhaps it didn't and they were declared rogue because of his actions.

When playing through the game, it is more than kohaku - the codex also mentions Cerberus - THAT is a credible source since it is from multiple sources.  Not just Kohaku's missions.

Your argument is invalid.  There is only your flawed argument from a discredited source.  Everything else points to Kohaku being the victim, and a hero to the alliance.  Cerberus is aproven, morally reprehensible organization who's "ends justifies the means" makes it no better than Saren's operations on Noveria.

The Codex is biased in one way.  It is not the law. 

[Onyx Jaguar]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Goddammit I hope they stop with the R_______ titles soon, I keep mixing them up.

You know I am pretty sure nobody was calling Kahoku a traitor before ME2 (pre-Martin Sheen TIM).

what I am implying here is that you are all gay for Martin Sheen

No, him promising the Shadow Broker intel was not new addon for ME 1 from ME 2 it was always there.  I'm surprised so many are jumping for Kahoku, he is a flawed figure more than anything.

[Nivenus]

Ah, yes, the idea that ME2's writing is the result of a vast conspiracy by the evil Mac Walters who hates all things ME1 and who threw Drew Kaprysyhn out of the writing circle (who is certainly not also a senior writer on ME2) in spite of all claims and signs by the latter to the contrary. Yes, we have dismissed this claim.







No, seriously. We have.