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Bioware is the best.


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#176
Nozybidaj

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iharal5 wrote...

I'll have to agree with Stanley on pretty much all these points.

People who play the first game in a serie and then moves on to the sequel will often be disappointet because the game is different in an improved way. A player who is 'stuck' in the prequel's functions will often simply toss the sequel's new and improved functions away as garbage.

I know this myself from playing Gears of War. I loved the first one, but when I moved on to playing the second, I simply hated everything that was different about it. But, as time went on, I started to realize that Geow2 actually was hell of a lot better than Geow1. I think the same thing goes for ME1/ME2, and sequels in general.

I agree with the OP btw, BioWare is my favorite company. And I've only played DA:O and Me1 and Me2.


Then I'd say you, and Mr. Woo, seem overly eager to toss away criticism without giving it much thought.

There are plenty of perfectly valid and well thought out criticisms of various features and direction choices across the forum.  With all the static around though they just seem hard to find.  That doesn't mean that anyone who doesn't like something in ME2 should just be dismissed out of hand.

#177
iharal5

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Nozybidaj wrote...

iharal5 wrote...

I'll have to agree with Stanley on pretty much all these points.

People who play the first game in a serie and then moves on to the sequel will often be disappointet because the game is different in an improved way. A player who is 'stuck' in the prequel's functions will often simply toss the sequel's new and improved functions away as garbage.

I know this myself from playing Gears of War. I loved the first one, but when I moved on to playing the second, I simply hated everything that was different about it. But, as time went on, I started to realize that Geow2 actually was hell of a lot better than Geow1. I think the same thing goes for ME1/ME2, and sequels in general.

I agree with the OP btw, BioWare is my favorite company. And I've only played DA:O and Me1 and Me2.


Then I'd say you, and Mr. Woo, seem overly eager to toss away criticism without giving it much thought.

There are plenty of perfectly valid and well thought out criticisms of various features and direction choices across the forum.  With all the static around though they just seem hard to find.  That doesn't mean that anyone who doesn't like something in ME2 should just be dismissed out of hand.


Oh, don't go all jumping-to-conclusions on me here. I think ME2 has it weak sides, and I liked ME1's story quite a lot better than ME2's. But when considering all aspects of the game, then I'd have to say that ME2 is a much better game.

And just so I don't give you all the wrong impression;
Mako > Hammerhead
ME1 Story > ME2 Story
ME1 Planetary mining > ME2 Scanning

#178
KitsuneRommel

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Nozybidaj wrote...

As much as the ME teams doesn't seem to want to admit it people play BW games for a reason, their track record in story and characters.  They had that in ME1 and tried a different approach in ME2 and, well,  I wonder what impact that is going to have on ME3's success.


I'm sorry. Are you implying that ME1 characters were better?



Edit:

ME1 Planetary mining > ME2 Scanning

ME1 Planetary mining = ME2 Scanning because of too many mountanous planets with minerals placed in hard to get locations.

Modifié par KitsuneRommel, 17 mai 2010 - 11:07 .


#179
Nozybidaj

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KitsuneRommel wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

As much as the ME teams doesn't seem to want to admit it people play BW games for a reason, their track record in story and characters.  They had that in ME1 and tried a different approach in ME2 and, well,  I wonder what impact that is going to have on ME3's success.


I'm sorry. Are you implying that ME1 characters were better?


Significantly so, yes.

#180
Ecael

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Stanley Woo wrote...

People like to complain on the internet. it's fast, easy, and completely anonymous. And if there's someone official there to actually listen, all the more reason to complain--often and loudly--about the bugs or the direction or whatever else you don't like about the game. After all, a tiny chance the issue will be heard and get fixed is better than no chance at all, right? :)

Well, I suppose this is your job then:

Image IPB

:devil:

Nozybidaj wrote...

Except the game didn't pull in this huge segment of shooter fans.  1.6 mill in box sales while respectable isn't on the same level as say Halo that pulls down 20+ mill.  Why not go back to catering your core audience who are now "unhappy"?  Of course they could go the other way and remove even more rpg elements and give pulling in the shooter crowd another go, they'll just have to consider how successful that attempt may be at this point and if the risk is worth further alienating the "core" BW fanbase.

As much as the ME teams doesn't seem to want to admit it people play BW games for a reason, their track record in story and characters.  They had that in ME1 and tried a different approach in ME2 and, well,  I wonder what impact that is going to have on ME3's success.  Personally I feel BW has some rebuilding they need to do now in the faith department.  They asked for a free pass prior to ME2 and many gave it to them because they had such a strong history.  Now those folks want to see if BW can make good on that promise in the next game.

That's assuming the core audience - or even the majority of people who bought the game - are unhappy with the product. It's hard to compare Halo or Call of Duty (shooters with multiplayer) to a single-player hybrid shooter-RPG, which both Mass Effect games clearly are. Right now, Mass Effect 2 on the console has sold more in the last 4 months than Mass Effect 1 did in its 4 months.

What EA/BioWare can do is advertise or market the game as a shooter, but the game still is an RPG. I can imagine there are a lot of people who would prefer to play an hour's worth of the same deathmatch or capture-the-flag multiplayer map rather than spend five minutes watching a cutscene or listening to dialogue. I don't mind either of those, but the quality and originality of multiplayer shooter games today is declining, so I'd rather play Mass Effect 1 or 2 over again than log on to another game.

As for people who compare the game to Gears of War, read the news article from the link I posted last page - Gears of War's designer praises Mass Effect 2 for its RPG elements and wants Gears of War 3 to start heading towards that direction.

If it looks like a quality RPG, sounds like a quality RPG, is reviewed by most critics as a quality RPG, and is said by both BioWare and Epic Games that it's a quality RPG, what else could it possibly be?

As Curunen said, the changes they made to Mass Effect 2 were jarring, but they didn't detract from the overall "RPG-ness" of the game.

Modifié par Ecael, 17 mai 2010 - 11:09 .


#181
KitsuneRommel

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Nozybidaj wrote...

Significantly so, yes.


Wow.

#182
Nozybidaj

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Ecael wrote...
As Curunen said, the changes they made to Mass Effect 2 were jarring, but they didn't detract from the overall "RPG-ness" of the game.


If you are talking gameplay and technical aspects of the game, then yes I agree.

#183
iharal5

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Nozybidaj wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

As much as the ME teams doesn't seem to want to admit it people play BW games for a reason, their track record in story and characters.  They had that in ME1 and tried a different approach in ME2 and, well,  I wonder what impact that is going to have on ME3's success.


I'm sorry. Are you implying that ME1 characters were better?


Significantly so, yes.


You have got to be kidding me. GIEF ARGUMENTS OR GTFO ZOMG!

#184
Nozybidaj

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iharal5 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

As much as the ME teams doesn't seem to want to admit it people play BW games for a reason, their track record in story and characters.  They had that in ME1 and tried a different approach in ME2 and, well,  I wonder what impact that is going to have on ME3's success.


I'm sorry. Are you implying that ME1 characters were better?


Significantly so, yes.


You have got to be kidding me. GIEF ARGUMENTS OR GTFO ZOMG!


Interesting how this or picture spam is the usual response of folks who prefer the ME2 characters. :P

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 17 mai 2010 - 11:12 .


#185
Ecael

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Nozybidaj wrote...

Significantly so, yes.

Nozybidaj wrote...

Ecael wrote...
As Curunen said, the changes they made to Mass Effect 2 were jarring, but they didn't detract from the overall "RPG-ness" of the game.


If you are talking gameplay and technical aspects of the game, then yes I agree.

Without romance dialogue, I'd actually figure that the amount of Normandy dialogue (when you really get to know the character) for each character across both games is about even. Legion and Thane especially have large amounts of dialogue that help you get to know much more about the Geth and introduce you to the Drell, even if Thane isn't romanced.

Considering only the romance dialogue, every love interest seems to be extremely limited in what dialogue or cutscenes are unlocked from romancing (the YouTube videos of all romance dialogues are really short).

That only illustrates that romance isn't a vital part of the game, it's just there as short side missions. With that aside, the character development is great in both ME1 or ME2.

Modifié par Ecael, 17 mai 2010 - 11:17 .


#186
iharal5

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Nozybidaj wrote...

iharal5 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

As much as the ME teams doesn't seem to want to admit it people play BW games for a reason, their track record in story and characters.  They had that in ME1 and tried a different approach in ME2 and, well,  I wonder what impact that is going to have on ME3's success.


I'm sorry. Are you implying that ME1 characters were better?


Significantly so, yes.


You have got to be kidding me. GIEF ARGUMENTS OR GTFO ZOMG!


Interesting how this or picture spam is the usual response of folks who prefer the ME2 characters. :P


Interesting how you respond to my request of arguments with a mocking sentence and a smiley.

#187
Stanley Woo

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Nozybidaj wrote...
Interesting how this or picture spam is the usual response of folks who prefer the ME2 characters. :P

And you say I am dismissive of people's opinions. Don't worry, Nozybidaj, you won't have to worry about me responding to your comments or opinions with "dismissive" posts anymore. Thank you.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 17 mai 2010 - 11:22 .


#188
Ecael

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Stanley Woo wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...
Interesting how this or picture spam is the usual response of folks who prefer the ME2 characters. :P

And you say I am dismissive of people's opinions. Don't worry, Nozybidaj, you won't have to worry about me responding to your comments or opinions with "dismissive" posts anymore. Thank you.

Uh-oh.

Image IPB

I may picture spam, but at least I provide verbose arguments in the meantime. Just because people don't bother to read them (or bother to refute most of it) doesn't mean that's the only thing I do.

People just end up nitpicking my posts as if that entirely proves me wrong. That alone almost makes me feel like a moderator.

:wizard:

#189
jgordon11

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Some people will never be satisfied and feel obligated to many things that they really shouldn't feel obligated of.



Anyway Bioware keep up with the good work as well as the DLC's.

#190
Shazzammer2

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jgordon11 wrote...

Some people will never be satisfied and feel obligated to many things that they really shouldn't feel obligated of.

Anyway Bioware keep up with the good work as well as the DLC's.


Its the internet. gives poeple license to complain. :lol:


On topic: Bioware is doing a great job. Thumbs up for Bioware.

Modifié par Shazzammer2, 18 mai 2010 - 12:04 .


#191
Nozybidaj

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Stanley Woo wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...
Interesting how this or picture spam is the usual response of folks who prefer the ME2 characters. :P

And you say I am dismissive of people's opinions. Don't worry, Nozybidaj, you won't have to worry about me responding to your comments or opinions with "dismissive" posts anymore. Thank you.


I wasn't dismissive at all, just happened to notice a trend.  If I touched on a "sensitive" topic for ya, well tough noogies.

To the point if some folks prefer the ME2 characters, more power to them, it would just be nice to see them provide more of a response than "<insert picture with witty comment here>".

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 18 mai 2010 - 12:08 .


#192
iharal5

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It would be nice if you gave me this argument for why the ME1 characters are the best. I kinda asked you an hour ago. Kinda hard to discuss for the ME2-characters when you don't give me something to reply to.

#193
Ecael

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Nozybidaj wrote...

I wasn't dismissive at all, just happened to notice a trend.  If I touched on a "sensitive" topic for ya, well tough noogies.

To the point if some folks prefer the ME2 characters, more power to them, it would just be nice to see them provide more of a response than

Role playing game - genre in which players advance through a story quest, and often many side quests, for which their character or party of characters gain experience that improves various attributes and abilities.

Even if some people prefer some characters over the others, that doesn't make Mass Effect 1 or 2 any less of an RPG in comparison to each other.

#194
Nozybidaj

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iharal5 wrote...

It would be nice if you gave me this argument for why the ME1 characters are the best. I kinda asked you an hour ago. Kinda hard to discuss for the ME2-characters when you don't give me something to reply to.


/shrug  No reason to "argue" over it, its really just personal preference isn't it? 

People who like the ME2 characters aren't going to change their mind and neither are the folks who like the ME1 characters.  I just find it interesting any time some one mentions they prefer the ME1 characters they get two pages of pic spam with "funny" lines on them or posts full of leet speak, or in this case angry mods coming to the thread to vent some steam.

Its like if someone doesn't find every single aspect of ME2 unquestionably better than ME1 it demands they be drowned out with useless static and inane babbling.  Its especially satisfying when even the BW mods start to chip in. :D

#195
Nozybidaj

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Ecael wrote...

Even if some people prefer some characters over the others, that doesn't make Mass Effect 1 or 2 any less of an RPG in comparison to each other.


Where did I ever say it did?

edit:  Ah I see I missed a post of yours and think you may have interpretted my response in a way I didn't intend.  Yes I agree that the gameplay aspects that changed don't make ME2 any less of an RPG.  I didn't mean to indicate that I thought the story and character aspects that were lacking "did".  I'm not saying that at all.  Just that it made the overall game less enjoyable.  The "RPG"ness has nothing to do with it.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 18 mai 2010 - 12:19 .


#196
iharal5

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I think that from an objective point of view (if that's how you say it there in the English-speaking world) ME2 characters simply are better. They come from a far wider spectre, they each have their own loyalty mission, they have a lot of interaction with Shepard, and... let's face it, they have far richer personalities. Kaidan to me was just a soldier with no other personality than "hey, I'm medium smart and good with guns".



Tali also became a huge fan-favorite with ME2. She wasn't too popular befor the release of ME2. ME2 really introduced her in a much better way.

#197
Nozybidaj

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iharal5 wrote...

I think that from an objective point of view (if that's how you say it there in the English-speaking world) ME2 characters simply are better. They come from a far wider spectre, they each have their own loyalty mission, they have a lot of interaction with Shepard, and... let's face it, they have far richer personalities. Kaidan to me was just a soldier with no other personality than "hey, I'm medium smart and good with guns".

Tali also became a huge fan-favorite with ME2. She wasn't too popular befor the release of ME2. ME2 really introduced her in a much better way.


Tali was pretty popular before ME2, so.....

As for the rest, it actually is just your opinion.  I would agree with ecal that content wise I don't notice much difference between the ME1 and ME2 characters.  The only real difference in the quantity of content there is 1) The loyalty mission and 2) The number of them.

Whether a particular character has a "richer personality" or not is pretty much the definition of opinion.

#198
Nozybidaj

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Ecael wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...
Interesting how this or picture spam is the usual response of folks who prefer the ME2 characters. :P

And you say I am dismissive of people's opinions. Don't worry, Nozybidaj, you won't have to worry about me responding to your comments or opinions with "dismissive" posts anymore. Thank you.

Uh-oh.

Image IPB



Hehe, yes well, kinda proves my point doesn't it. :D

#199
Busomjack

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You're either with Bioware or you're with the terrorists.

#200
Barquiel

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iharal5 wrote...

and... let's face it, they have far richer personalities.


richer personality = "Can it wait Shepard? I'm in the middle of some calibrations." ?
-_-