310 réponses à ce sujet

[drunken pyromaniac]

Beholderess wrote...

Wrex and Liara are are not joining for the story purposes too. This is quite understandable. Besides, it's not like a soldier can just walk away from her post and join a crew of some ship that no records show.
But! Wrex and Liara do not call Shep a traitor. Which is my main issue with Virmire survivor.

Have you never yelled at or called a loved one a name? How is this different? She makes a mistake and apologizes.

[Beholderess]

Nivenus wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

At the very least, I think we can agree that Ashley wouldn't approve of Cerberus' experiments on human soldiers, right? Am I right?

Well, my paragon Shep doesn't approve of it too, and he never gave her any indication that he, under any circumstances, would. Yet she found it easy to believe.

Regardless of whether she feels Shepard would carry out those acts, she still feels that he's betraying her by associating with Cerberus. She's very principled. Her principles might not be yours or mine, but she sticks to them.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure she didn't buy Shepard's "I was dead" line - even though it's true. It's a pretty damn hard story to believe and there's not a whole lot of proof. Even if she does believe him (which she probably doesn't) she's probably ticked off that he didn't try to contact her sooner (yes, she's out of touch, but I'm being real here). In fact, I believe Kaidan says as much.

Shepard's asking a lot by appearing with no explanation. I'm not saying that she's right or wrong, but her approach is a lot different than Garrus (who has nothing left) and Tali's (who seems to align herself more with people and less with organizations) not because she was poorly written, but because she stayed true to her character, which is different.

Heh, guess that's pretty much my issue. I too tend to believe in (and ally with) persons, not organisation, and tend to view loyalty to friend, relative, lover, trusted leader as more important than a loyalty to organisation. Not more important than loyalty to an ideal or principe, though, but that's another story.
Again, I've never called her a bad person. I just think that 1) Ending the relationship with Ash and picking another LI cannot be considered cheating, for the relationship is effectively ended by her. Trying to salvage it is an option, but nota must and 2) In my heart, Virmire's survivor behavior shifted them from "one of my own" cathegory to the "ally" or even "temporary ally/bystander"

[Beholderess]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Wrex and Liara are are not joining for the story purposes too. This is quite understandable. Besides, it's not like a soldier can just walk away from her post and join a crew of some ship that no records show.
But! Wrex and Liara do not call Shep a traitor. Which is my main issue with Virmire survivor.

Have you never yelled at or called a loved one a name? How is this different? She makes a mistake and apologizes.

Don't remember her apologising for the traitor comment, even in the letter (which is quite sweet in many other aspects). And it is not an accusation hurled lightly - or forgiven lightly - in any case.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Beholderess wrote...

Don't remember her apologising for the traitor comment, even in the letter (which is quite sweet in many other aspects). And it is not an accusation hurled lightly - or forgiven lightly - in any case.

Neither is racist yet that stops nobody.
And she apologizes for her behavior in general on Horizon.

[Beholderess]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Why? Some of the crewmembers explicitely tell you that they are not against aliens, but humanity needs to look after it's own interests first, for noone else will. Almost the same thing she tells about humans and aliens, in her famous bear and dog analogy.

Cerberus is an explicitely human supremacist organization. They're essentilly the IRA mixed with a pinch of KKK. Ashley merely thinks that humanity should look after its own. She never says, "Lol! We should take this place over!" And yes, neither does any Cerberus member, but the Illusive Man wishes to ensure human dominance.

That's what I've said. Of course she doesn't share Cerberus phylosophy in general, and certainly not TIM's viev, but her opinions are pretty close to those of Normandy crew. Much closer than full paragon Shep's, actually.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Beholderess wrote...


That's what I've said. Of course she doesn't share Cerberus phylosophy in general, and certainly not TIM's viev, but her opinions are pretty close to those of Normandy crew. Much closer than full paragon Shep's, actually.

What I'm disagreeing with is your comparing her to an inherently racist organization, not the rest.

Modifié par drunken pyromaniac, 18 mai 2010 - 07:00 .

[Beholderess]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Beholderess wrote...

Don't remember her apologising for the traitor comment, even in the letter (which is quite sweet in many other aspects). And it is not an accusation hurled lightly - or forgiven lightly - in any case.

Neither is racist yet that stops nobody.
And she apologizes for her behavior in general on Horizon.

Well, that's why I've never called her racist)

[Mev186]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Have you never yelled at or called a loved one a name? How is this different? She makes a mistake and apologizes.

Not everyone gets an apology, I played a FemShep and saved Ash and got nothing. It's only of you saved your LI that you get that letter. No matter, I don't think I'll be having Ash on my squad in ME3

[drunken pyromaniac]

This thread is like Harbnger, everytime I slay it, it returns.

Mev186 wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Have you never yelled at or called a loved one a name? How is this different? She makes a mistake and apologizes.

Not everyone gets an apology, I played a FemShep and saved Ash and got nothing. It's only of you saved your LI that you get that letter. No matter, I don't think I'll be having Ash on my squad in ME3

[img]http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://tfc.duke.free.fr/forumpics/MasterOfTheObvious.jpg&ei=9YD3S_-OJsSAlAf1nfTaCg&sa=X&oi=image_landing_page_redirect&ct=legacy&usg=AFQjCNGsUAJbbjt20QbUxSIl6nnaf31c0w[/img]
That's the writer's fault not Ashley's.

[Homebound]

Obsidian Thirteen wrote...

...I really don't want that **** Ashley back anymore.

Your second mistake was wanting her back in the first place. Your first was romancing her and not letting her die on Virmire.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I don't get why the OP never paid attention to her message. She APOLOGIZED, for heaven's sake. What more do you need?

[Privateerkev]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I don't get why the OP never paid attention to her message. She APOLOGIZED, for heaven's sake. What more do you need?

Because this whole thread exists to flame-bait Ash fans...

[Beholderess]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I don't get why the OP never paid attention to her message. She APOLOGIZED, for heaven's sake. What more do you need?

I believe OP stated that s/he couldn't read her message because the font on TV was too small.

As for the message itself - I think it is perfectly reasonable to think that after what was said on Horizon, a simple apology is not enough. Enough to not be angry at Ash anymore - perhaps. But not to return the love, trust, understanding, closeness that were lost.

[Chuvvy]

Obsidian Thirteen wrote...

Yeah, but she didn't even try to listen. She was clearly blinded by the fact that it was Cerberus. She needed to calm the hell down and LISTEN TO ME. No, instead she has to go running back to the Alliance without hearing my side of the story.

Don't blame Crater and Carth 2.0 they're fake blame the writers or whoevers idea it was to assume the player haddn't played ME1. That's why most everything that you did in ME1 had little to no meaning.

Modifié par Slidell505, 22 mai 2010 - 03:22 .

[cerberus1701]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well see it from her perspective, you've been dead for two years and now with an organization that has been classified as rogue by her superiors?

Well, I see that she was with Shep when they acted against Saren. She knew the odds. She knew no one believed them, but they had to do it anyway.

She's corps through and through....yet she helped Shep defy orders and steal a prototype Alliance frigate. Because she knew it was necessary and she trusted Shep.


But she can't trust Shep NOW? Her reaction is completely overblown.

[Beholderess]

cerberus1701 wrote...

Well, I see that she was with Shep when they acted against Saren. She knew the odds. She knew no one believed them, but they had to do it anyway.

She's corps through and through....yet she helped Shep defy orders and steal a prototype Alliance frigate. Because she knew it was necessary and she trusted Shep.


But she can't trust Shep NOW? Her reaction is completely overblown.

This. So very much this.
Considering that she was the one to assure Shep that he was right in stealing Normandy, her reaction now is kind of strange...
The only explanation I see is that she did not think that the persom she met on Horizon was a real Shep. Which is an interesting possibility, but somewhat unlikely, for is she believed that, why bother with a letter at all?

[trobbins777]

Let me replay the entire horizon scene for you.



Ash: Commander Shepard first human spectre, savior of the citadel your in the presence of a god-"

Bioware: ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

Ash: Traitor!!

[Beholderess]

trobbins777 wrote...

Let me replay the entire horizon scene for you.

Ash: Commander Shepard first human spectre, savior of the citadel your in the presence of a god-"
Bioware: ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL
Ash: Traitor!!

Lol!
So true

[jwalker]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I don't get why the OP never paid attention to her message. She APOLOGIZED, for heaven's sake. What more do you need?

Not everybody gets that message.
And that's not the point either.

Ashley's reaction it's infuriating.
The Alliance sent her down there blind, unequipped and unprepared. Half the colony is as good as dead. If it wasn't for Shepard, the entire colony would be, Ashley included.

What does she do ? She yells and calls Shepard a traitor. As soon as she hears 'Cerberus' her mind was already made up. After all they've been through, she doesn't give him/her a chance. And she storms off. Nice.

I'm not saying "replay Virmire and let her get nuked instead". But it's only natural being angry at her.

[EmperorSahlertz]

jwalker wrote...

I'm not saying "replay Virmire and let her get nuked instead". But it's only natural being angry at her.

And it's only natural her being angry at Shepard...

[Clarence2679]

I agree with the op I had romanced her In ME1 then when she went flying off the Handle I wanted to then the whole apology email crap I wanted to use my biotics to kill her her and I hope in ME3 that when she finds out i cheated on her that I can tell it had everything to do with her attitude and besides I feel she should've known Shepard well enough to know that it had to be a good reason. so after that I told Kelly and Joker that it was over with and her stupid Pic was still standing up in my room even with my other playthrough I wish there was a renegade interrupt to kill her.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Renegade interrupts are supposed to be relevant to the situation they are in. It would be silly to let Shepard go around murdering everyone he sees for the slightest affront or annoyance. That's why you can push a hostile Eclipse mercenary trooper out of a window but only punch a  reporter.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 23 mai 2010 - 01:02 .

[drunken pyromaniac]

[img]http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.ascendancy.net/tribalwar/DieThreadDie.jpg&ei=Xn_4S5GSHIP6lwfyj4HMCg&sa=X&oi=image_landing_page_redirect&ct=legacy&usg=AFQjCNE8SZ3bagr8-J-iM2vbtJxjnvHzQA[/img]

[cerberus1701]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

jwalker wrote...

I'm not saying "replay Virmire and let her get nuked instead". But it's only natural being angry at her.

And it's only natural her being angry at Shepard...

Not really.

"You didn't contact me. We all thought you were dead."

* I WAS dead, you stupid cow. Hang on and I bet Miranda can stream you some vid from the Normandy from when I "was nothing but meat and tubes."

"You're with Cerberus now?"

Well, yeah, if by "with" you mean that hundreds of thousands of Humans have gone missing and Cerberus seems to be the only bunch that even acknowledge it, much less show any willingness to put themselves on the line to do anything about it.

WE saved half the colony, which is more than the Alliance has ever done about it. *I* saved the colony. Hell, I saved *you* (cough --more than once--- cough) and THIS is what I get?

[Madman123456]

Let me wrap this up. Ashley is a bit angry at shep for not calling her the whole time. Even if he was "dead" for most of it he could have called instead of "randomly" (could have seemed randomly to her in that moment, although she might have thought later that shepard was sent there so Cerberus could mess with her.) stumble upon her.

But then again, he couldn't. Her whereabouts where classified and no one in Cerberus knew anything until right before the Mission and the Alliance wouldn't give anything away.



Shepard could have told her that he tried to reach her. And Ash could have at least tried to listen.





About Cerberus being a "terrorist" Organization. "Terrorrists try to strike fear, or better yet, terror into your Heart. When they bomb something, they don't have anything against the People they kill, they just want to strike terror. That is the ultimate Goal.



Although i have to say that i fully expect TIM to use Fear as an Instrument to get what he wants, though there isn't any Evidence of him doing so in the Past.