310 réponses à ce sujet

[drunken pyromaniac]

Massadonious1 wrote...

"Defending themselves" means flying planes into buildings, ramming boats into US Navy vessels, and bombing civillian structures like hotels, apparently.

That's what you do when you don't have an army. They can't stand up to us in open warfare because they'd be obliterated.

[Massadonious1]

Sand King wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

"Defending themselves" means flying planes into buildings, ramming boats into US Navy vessels, and bombing civillian structures like hotels, apparently.

Defending there ideology would be a better way of putting it.

That's probably a better definition.

And, I agree with what Onyx said. They're terrorists in the very broad sense of the definition, but they really don't share much in the way of the beliefs or ideology of Al Qaida.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

i even found her letter to be kinda mean.



"Yeah your with cerberus i don't trust you don't die on me again bye"



kaidan's was worse from what i heard.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

That just makes them a terrorist organization that does not make them the same as Al Qaeda. The IRA was a better example and so was the Nzi example.

True enough, though it doesn't truly matter.

[RyrineaNara]

Sand King wrote...

Why is it only the Ashley fans who are get on my case for explaining the difference between a terrorist origination and a paramilitary faction?

Face plams you don't know what a Terrorist origination is in the first place. Cerbuse is a terroist group.

[Nightwriter]

None of us liked it. A lot of us understood it.

[Images]

The concept of attacks based on spreading the knowledge of, or to gain the fear/respect of an ideology is a a moral mindfield.



I think that was kind of the point of ME2. If we step away from such an obvious target such as Al-Queda and focus on one closer to home it might work better. For example, the IRA. Heroes to some, murderers to others. Don't ask my own opinion, this isn't about that. But unlike our previous example, they are a creation within the western world, not merely acting on it. Think of humans in the Alliance as the Irish. The IRA or Cerberus splits them in two. Even many in favour of a united republic (or in this case, Human autonomy) hold nothing but disdain for their violent actions while some who want the same see it as the only way. Of course you have the other side that don't want to be cut of from the United Kingdom at all which I suppose could work as those that wish to maintain closeness with the council and the alien races.



I may be completely off my rocker but does that metaphor work slightly better to explain Ashley's anger? My Irish girlfriend over my shoulder certainly thinks it does.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

At least she had a reaction.

Two years of being dead, and Liara traveling to the ends of the galaxy and handing me over to Cerberus so that I might live again, and all I got was a "Shepard, it is nice to see you again." This is how I felt:

http://www.youtube.c...XRDDodk#t=1m21s

Modifié par Dr. Peter Venkman, 13 mai 2010 - 05:07 .

[fortunesque]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

i even found her letter to be kinda mean.

"Yeah your with cerberus i don't trust you don't die on me again bye"

kaidan's was worse from what i heard.

No... it wasn't.

Summary:
He apologizes then says Shepard's death tore him apart. After two years, he'd just finally allowed his friends to talk him into a casual date just so he could try to be normal. He goes on to say that he still doesn't trust Cerberus but if Shepard's the same person he knew, then she'll figure stuff out with the Collectors. Then he leaves it open ended that when she's done that they'll have another chance.

Edit: he also says that he's lost too many people that he's been close to and he doesn't know if he could bear losing Shepard again.

Modifié par fortunesque, 13 mai 2010 - 05:07 .

[Sand King]

RyrineaNara wrote...

Sand King wrote...

Why is it only the Ashley fans who are get on my case for explaining the difference between a terrorist origination and a paramilitary faction?

Face plams you don't know what a Terrorist origination is in the first place. Cerbuse is a terroist group.

Read what Onxy wrote dip****.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

just my opinion. Found the confrontation to kinda be a dick move, didn't even give shepard a chance to explain and twisted his/her words to what they want to believe. Then they try to write a letter but it kinda seems to worsen the problem more. idk

[fortunesque]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

just my opinion. Found the confrontation to kinda be a dick move, didn't even give shepard a chance to explain and twisted his/her words to what they want to believe. Then they try to write a letter but it kinda seems to worsen the problem more. idk

I blame the writing, not the characters. Shepard's dialogue was lame as well.

Bah. The whole situation is crap

[KendallX23]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

just my opinion. Found the confrontation to kinda be a dick move, didn't even give shepard a chance to explain and twisted his/her words to what they want to believe. Then they try to write a letter but it kinda seems to worsen the problem more. idk

have u seen the dialogue that was given to Shepard to say...it was weird....

[Sand King]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

just my opinion. Found the confrontation to kinda be a dick move, didn't even give shepard a chance to explain and twisted his/her words to what they want to believe. Then they try to write a letter but it kinda seems to worsen the problem more. idk

This, apparently being dead for two years isn’t excuse anymore.

[Onyx Jaguar]

It was suppose to be



CONFLICT++++++++++

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Yeah shepard's dialouge was reaaaallly stupid too. Like come on dude, you've been dead for two years and you were revived by an organization that you almost despise and they are using you as a puppet and you need to surround yourself with people you can turst.



There. Bam. Just saying that would totally change the whole situation.

[Massadonious1]

The only conflict at that point was between me and my TV.

[Images]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

It was suppose to be

CONFLICT++++++++++

Yes!

Conflict = Drama

[fortunesque]

 Or saying, "Hey. I was dead, but I want to sit down with you and talk about this thoroughly. The colonists are a priority though, so I'll wait. BTW, are you feeling any side effects from the venom?"

Shepard's responses were meant to escalate the issue because a conflict had to be forced to keep Ash and Kaidan from following to the bitter end.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

That scene frustrated me to the core.

[Inverness Moon]

The goal of Cerberus is the survival and preservation of humanity. And to TIM that means human dominance. Human dominance does not mean committing genocide against aliens or conquering the galaxy or committing acts of terrorism for no other reason than than to cause terror, it means putting humanity in a position where they do not have to fear the power of the Citadel Council, the reapers, or any other species or organization.



While it is true that a lot join Cerberus because of racism, as Miranda notes, I don't believe TIM goes along with that crap.

[ObserverStatus]

It wasn't entirely her fault, you could have done Wrex's loyalty mission after all.

[JKoopman]

Originally one of my two ManSheps had romanced Ashley and chose to save her on Virmire... then I saw on YouTube what she says to you on Horizon and her attitude ticked me off so much I made it a point to load a Virmire save and make sure she got a nice nuclear suntan.



I was right about the Reapers when no one else believed me, I saved the entire galaxy from certain annihilation almost single-handedly, personally saved her life on Virmire at the expense of my top Lieutenant and long-time comrade, and I took the time to listen to all her bad poetry recitals and religious mumbo-jumbo, and as thanks for all that she ignores what I say about the Collectors being tied to the Reapers, doesn't even take the time to hear me out and accuses me of treason. Well eff you, ****...

[Nivenus]

Obsidian Thirteen wrote...

Sadly, my TV is Standard Definition. So I was one of the *millions* to suffer from Bioware's poor choice of ridiculously small and unreadable text. I never read basically any of the messages.

Given BioWare's sold 1.6 million ME2 copies total, I think that's a vast overstatement.

That being said, I'm sorry for your trouble. BioWare should have included a larger text option though, personally, I prefer the small text (I do have access to an HDTV, however).

Sand King wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

You're working for Cerberus, the equivalent of Al-Qaida. .

That’s a bit extreme 

I don't see how in any which way. Even if you dispute that Cerberus are terrorists (which is a nebulous term at best - there's no universally agreed upon definition), which I wouldn't, they've committed far more terrible atrocities than al-Qaida has. al-Qaida has merely done the usual "blow innocent people up" tactic which, while undeniably tragic, is hardly shocking beyond the fact that so many people were killed. Cerberus, on the other hand, dissects captured soldiers (Akuze), breeds biological weapons (rachi), subjects human beings to mind-control experiments (husks and the thorian creepers), kidnaps children (TIM approved of that part at least on Pragia - he simply disapproved of some of their later methods), abuses children (Ascension shows pretty clear abuse of Gillian), and, alongside that, does the more mundane "let's run an illegal military organization on the side" thing.

al-Qaida is mundane, every-day life evil. Cerberus takes it up a notch. You may or may not think they're justified, but that's all about perspective - just as it is with al-Qaida (who, as pyro pointed out, are not in it for the evulz). But it is pretty much undeniable that the actual acts they've committed are more shocking and terrible than those al-Qaida - or practically any real-life terrorist organization - has committed.

Not that I'm saying that parallels to Cerberus' acts don't exist in the real world. Unit 731 is one good example of real-world nastiness that compares with Cerberus' worst atrocities pretty well. But al-Qaida - among other things, because they just don't have the resources - can't and doesn't.

[nhsk]

Oh right, AQ do it for the lulz and not because the arab world has been suppressed by the western for the last 500+ years.

It is not because flying 3 attack helicopters into a populated area to target an apartment where alledged terrorists are is any worse than some suicide terrorist blowing himself up in front a café.

Or should I start ranting about how the state of Israel treats its palestenian population?

Clearly you need to see the side from two different views, but alas people in the modern world don't do that as they all just follow the TV news, which tells us that AQ is terrorists. I'm quite sure that in the arab world US is closer to being terrorists than AQ.

The difference is the methods, but look at their options.

Not that I defend any "terrorist" act but I understand why people are pissed off in the arab world.