310 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

gashgfjaskgfkagh wrote...

I hope if they make a squadmate out of Ashley you can refuse or even kill her (preferably with the M-920 Cain).

Ahsley: Shepard I'm sorry of what I've said to you, I forgive you for joining Cwerberus and I love you. I want to join your squad.
Shepard: I don't think so, I'm done with you Allaince types, you can't be trusted. *Shepard kisses Miranda and then walks away*

Well if you do say that then you are a traitor to the Alliance, so that just means she would know she was right the first time.

[Badpie]

Terraneaux wrote...

 What you guys have to remember is that Ash (and Kaiden) are not real people, they are in fact characters in a work of fiction, a work of fiction that isn't intended to be a deep psychological analysis of why people behave the way they do and whether or not love can overcome ideological differences.  You have to look at it more in terms of what that scene contributed to the plot; the purpose of that scene was to break ties you had with ME1 characters and force you more onto Cerberus's side.  

I agree with this.  Why does everyone assume Shepard is supposed to be able to talk his way out of everything or that he's always right all the time?  Ashley and Kaidan's characters, even in ME1 were used partly as a way to balance Shepard out.  Their characters challenged Shepard a little and made Shepard think about decisions.  They also happened to be the only support system Shepard had, the only people who kind of picked Shepard up when he was feeling defeated (he didn't have this by the way in ME2 and his character had about zero vulnerability which is a huge annoyance to me, but I digress).

I think the writing for Ashley and Kaidan on Horizon was fine.  It was Shepard's side of the conversation that was a big fail.  It's like someone wrote it at 4:45pm on a Friday and all they were thinking about was leaving work.  It was TERRIBLE.  There was no way to explain anything properly except a non-chalant "oh yeah I was dead for two years and now I'm working with a terrorist group, but it's cool. Trust me."  And while storywise, I know they were going for the whole - oh both of them handled that badly and now there is tension between them - I really hope Shepard has a chance to apologize too.  Because he was a JERK on Horizon (because of the crappy writing).

[LPPrince]

Badpie wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

 What you guys have to remember is that Ash (and Kaiden) are not real people, they are in fact characters in a work of fiction, a work of fiction that isn't intended to be a deep psychological analysis of why people behave the way they do and whether or not love can overcome ideological differences.  You have to look at it more in terms of what that scene contributed to the plot; the purpose of that scene was to break ties you had with ME1 characters and force you more onto Cerberus's side.  

I agree with this.  Why does everyone assume Shepard is supposed to be able to talk his way out of everything or that he's always right all the time?  Ashley and Kaidan's characters, even in ME1 were used partly as a way to balance Shepard out.  Their characters challenged Shepard a little and made Shepard think about decisions.  They also happened to be the only support system Shepard had, the only people who kind of picked Shepard up when he was feeling defeated (he didn't have this by the way in ME2 and his character had about zero vulnerability which is a huge annoyance to me, but I digress).

I think the writing for Ashley and Kaidan on Horizon was fine.  It was Shepard's side of the conversation that was a big fail.  It's like someone wrote it at 4:45pm on a Friday and all they were thinking about was leaving work.  It was TERRIBLE.  There was no way to explain anything properly except a non-chalant "oh yeah I was dead for two years and now I'm working with a terrorist group, but it's cool. Trust me."  And while storywise, I know they were going for the whole - oh both of them handled that badly and now there is tension between them - I really hope Shepard has a chance to apologize too.  Because he was a JERK on Horizon (because of the crappy writing).

The worst was the opener.

Shepard just going, "Its been too long, Ash. How've you been?"

Really? How've you been? THAT'S THE BEST HE COULD SAY?

Would've been so much better if Shepard had more emotion and was like,

"My God, I've been wanting to see you for so long! Nobody would tell me where you were. Are you ok? Did the Collectors do anything to you?"

[Ashii6]

LPPrince wrote...
"My God, I've been wanting to see you for so long! Nobody would tell me where you were. Are you ok? Did the Collectors do anything to you?"

Why he couldn't say something like that...? Why?! <_<

[drunken pyromaniac]

People in here seem to assume that just because Ash/Kaidan are fictional characters they can't do something rashly or make mistakes. If you're analyzing her behavior like you would a real person then you must take into account that people make mistakes and hurt those they love. She apologizes afterwords in the e-mail, even after learning you're working for terrorists.

If you don't like the characters or prefer the ME2 LIs that's fine but don't pretend it's hard to understand their side.

[TheSixthghoul]

I think Shepard was acting realistic, what could he say for an opener? He had no clue where he stood with her, if she had moved, or that she wasn't originally captured. She wasn't making it any easier on him, she so selfish and that egotistical letter... She so smug to when she walked off unbelievable and she thinks there is a future in me3 ha.

[LPPrince]

Matter of fact, here's an example of what would've made that interaction more favorable to the masses-



Shepard-"My God, I've been wanting to see you for so long! Nobody would tell me where you were. Are you ok? Did the Collectors do anything to you?"



Ash-"I'm fine, just shook up. Damn Collector's sent out a bunch of little bugs that paralyzed everyone in the colony."



Shepard-"Seeker swarms."



Ash-"I was able to shake it off and get away before they got me, but they captured everyone I was with."



EDI-"Shepard, about a third of the colonists were captured by the Collectors. There would have been more, had we not touched down.*



Ash-"What the....alright, I want an explanation. I hear about you being alive, then I hear about you joining Cerberus, flying around the Terminus Systems-"



Garrus(if you brought him)-"Ash, its a long story."



Ash-"God, Garrus too? What the hell is going on Shepard!? Why didn't you contact me!?"



Shepard-"Ash, I was dead. Really. I died on the Normandy, but Cerberus found my body and brought me back 2 years later. They want me to investigate why humans are disappearing around the Terminus Systems. And now you know why."



Random Squadmate-"The Collectors."



Ash-"So I'm supposed to believe this? After all I've heard about what you've done, what you've been doing, who you're with? Why didn't you go to the Alliance? Why is Cerberus still around!?"



Shepard-"I did! I went to the Citadel, Anderson didn't tell me where you were! And Cerberus is the only group willing to do anything about this! The Citadel, the Alliance-they don't want to bother with colonies in the Terminus Systems, and you know the reason for that, too."



Ash-"Bull. You could've reached me, you could've said something, ANYTHING."



*Ash starts to cry*



Ash-"I'd of helped you."



Shepard-"Ash, please don't-"



Ash-"No. I'm done. I'm Alliance to the bone. I know I can trust them. But you....and Cerberus....you don't even know, maybe they're helping the Collectors!"



Random Squadmate-"Typical Alliance Attitude."(Alter this per squaddie, this line being Miranda's)



Shepard-"Come on Ash, I can use you on the team. It'll be just like old times."



Ash-"I might not like aliens, but Cerberus, they HATE them. I'll never work for a group like that. I can't believe YOU would. Goodbye....skipper."



*Ash leaves*



Shep-"Joker, come pick us up. I'm tired of this colony."

[jlb524]

They gave Shepard a lobotomy in ME2, for some reason.

[LPPrince]

jlb524 wrote...

They gave Shepard a lobotomy in ME2, for some reason.

*Remembers the thread I started a while ago, "Shepard walks like he has a stick up his rectum."

[Gavinthelocust]

LPPrince wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

They gave Shepard a lobotomy in ME2, for some reason.

*Remembers the thread I started a while ago, "Shepard walks like he has a stick up his rectum."

He also apparently has no spine and can spin his head exrocist style.
Screwed the pooch there TIM

[Nivenus]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

People in here seem to assume that just because Ash/Kaidan are fictional characters they can't do something rashly or make mistakes. If you're analyzing her behavior like you would a real person then you must take into account that people make mistakes and hurt those they love. She apologizes afterwords in the e-mail, even after learning you're working for terrorists.
If you don't like the characters or prefer the ME2 LIs that's fine but don't pretend it's hard to understand their side.

This.

For some reason, people just want the characters to fall over and do whatever Shepard wants. I prefer it when they don't.

[MiMiBelle]

So Ashley acts up, too?
I started a new ME1 game and can't decide between her and Liara.  I like Liara.

Anyway, I played as a female and felt the same way as you about Kaiden. At least Ashley's email response was
better.  Kaiden was still giving my Shephard crap and being all weenie-like about it.

Like it's my shepard's fault that she was brought back from
the dead? 

The fact that she's working with Cerberus should be
overlooked in light of 'other events'.  There is REAL threat out there. Do I like Cerberus? No.
Do I trust the Illusive Man? About as far as I could throw him...which ain't far. He's really 'suspect' and because of this (I forget which assignment it was) but I did keep some info (that takes a year for EDI to download or decipher which, according to EDI, could significantly scale back Cerberus operations. Hopefully, this action carries weight in ME3. If push comes to shove, I'll need to be able to reign this megalomanic in somehow.

but at this point in time, the Reaper Threat is bigger than Cerberus.   They're coming.
While the council twiddles it thumbs. While politicians play politics...'they' are coming.  Cerberus is the only one taking the threat seriously.
'The enemy of my enemy is my friend...' 
Working against a common threat sometimes leads an individual to find allies in unlikely places...and I need all the allies I can get.

When Kaideen was giving me crap, I thought, "Ok...was Kaiden not stationed on the same ship under my command?   Did this obtuse b*stard not see what we were up against?  Did he not fight with me?"

The
Collector's came to the settlement and snatched up half the colony...and that idiot is whining about my relationship with Cerberus?  He trusted me before...why doubt me now? 
If it were an option, I would've dumped him right there on the spot.

[drunken pyromaniac]

Nivenus wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

People in here seem to assume that just because Ash/Kaidan are fictional characters they can't do something rashly or make mistakes. If you're analyzing her behavior like you would a real person then you must take into account that people make mistakes and hurt those they love. She apologizes afterwords in the e-mail, even after learning you're working for terrorists.
If you don't like the characters or prefer the ME2 LIs that's fine but don't pretend it's hard to understand their side.

This.

For some reason, people just want the characters to fall over and do whatever Shepard wants. I prefer it when they don't.

That's because Shepard is GOD! Dontcha know! Kneel before him, even if he makes no justification of doing things that appear dumb.

[Nivenus]

@MiMiBelle: Try to put yourselves in their shoes, rather than simply acting indignant. Bear with me, I'm going to use a loose real-life analogy here.

Your lover - who you're in a risky relationship with to begin with (since fraternization is strictly unallowed) - dies in a big attack. You grieve. It takes you months to get over it, but eventually, you move on. You get on with your life. You advance in your career. You get nice assignments thanks to your association with the hero who made such a difference in your life.

Then, two years later, rumors emerge that they're not dead but have just been hiding. They're also rumored to be working with an organization that has committed war crimes (let's say, the North Korean Army) and which is currently in a state of belligerency (but not outright war) with the organization you serve and protect (let's say the United States Army). You, naturally, don't believe these rumors.

Then, you see that the rumors were true and, what more, your lover isn't particularly apologetic about the fact they're now on the wrong side. They talk about how there's this bigger threat (let's say, a nuclear-capable al-Qaeda or similar threat).

Wouldn't that sound a bit... crazy? Wouldn't your initial reaction be one of shock and anger. Why didn't they try to get in contact with you? Why didn't they try to understand your point of view? How dare they come back after two years and try to act like everything's alright. Oh, what, they say they were killed and brought back to life by North Korean scientists? Well, that doesn't sound crazy at all. Of course, you'd be upset.

I can understand the frustration with Liara as her entire personality seems radically shifted, but Kaidan and Ashley, to me, make perfect sense.

[JKoopman]

Nivenus wrote...

@MiMiBelle: Try to put yourselves in their shoes, rather than simply acting indignant. Bear with me, I'm going to use a loose real-life analogy here.

Your lover - who you're in a risky relationship with to begin with (since fraternization is strictly unallowed) - dies in a big attack. You grieve. It takes you months to get over it, but eventually, you move on. You get on with your life. You advance in your career. You get nice assignments thanks to your association with the hero who made such a difference in your life.

Then, two years later, rumors emerge that they're not dead but have just been hiding. They're also rumored to be working with an organization that has committed war crimes (let's say, the North Korean Army) and which is currently in a state of belligerency (but not outright war) with the organization you serve and protect (let's say the United States Army). You, naturally, don't believe these rumors.

Then, you see that the rumors were true and, what more, your lover isn't particularly apologetic about the fact they're now on the wrong side. They talk about how there's this bigger threat (let's say, a nuclear-capable al-Qaeda or similar threat).

Wouldn't that sound a bit... crazy? Wouldn't your initial reaction be one of shock and anger. Why didn't they try to get in contact with you? Why didn't they try to understand your point of view? How dare they come back after two years and try to act like everything's alright. Oh, what, they say they were killed and brought back to life by North Korean scientists? Well, that doesn't sound crazy at all. Of course, you'd be upset.

I can understand the frustration with Liara as her entire personality seems radically shifted, but Kaidan and Ashley, to me, make perfect sense.

Not 2 years prior the entire galaxy was almost destroyed by a giant sentient space squid with the help of a cyborg ex-Spectre and his robot army, and it was only saved thanks to a 50,000 year old AI and a mini mass relay disguised as a statue. Stranger things have happened than a dead soldier's body being reconstructed.

And besides, if Ash trully believed Shepard was lying about being dead for the last 2 years, she never alluded to that in either her conversation or her email. You're just pulling that assumption out of your ass in an attempt to rationalize her behavior.

Modifié par JKoopman, 15 mai 2010 - 12:15 .

[RyrineaNara]

People that hate Ashely/Kaidan sound just like CRYBABIES that are crying over someone yelling at them.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I agree with drunken pyromaniac

[Markinator_123]

RyrineaNara wrote...

People that hate Ashely/Kaidan sound just like CRYBABIES that are crying over someone yelling at them.

That's not the case with me. I didn't like either of them in ME1 and like I said wish I could have blown them both up on Virmire. Some of you may like the Carth-wannabe and the bland, racist, poetry-reading action girl, but not all of us are fans.

[Nivenus]

JKoopman wrote...

Not 2 years prior the entire galaxy was almost destroyed by a giant sentient space squid with the help of a cyborg ex-Spectre and his robot army, and it was only saved thanks to a 50,000 year old AI and a mini mass relay disguised as a statue. Stranger things have happened than a dead soldier's body being reconstructed.

And besides, if Ash trully believed Shepard was lying about being dead for the last 2 years, she never alluded to that in either her conversation or her email. You're just pulling that assumption out of your ass in an attempt to rationalize her behavior.

Actually, I kind of think bringing someone back from the literal dead is a bit more out there than a giant robot squid. Maybe that's just me.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mass Effect has squid. Mass Effect has space ships. Mass Effect has AI. Mass Effect has robots. No reason why it can't have AI-controlled squid space ship when all are already existing.



Death not meaning dying...

[Beholderess]

Nivenus wrote...

I 100% disagree. I never thought it was bad writing, even when it initially happened. I was unhappy, yes, but I also admired BioWare for keeping the characters consistent with themselves and not having them automatically fall into your arms with happy enthusiasm.

Have you never found it somewhat unconsistent that, over the cource of game, you can persuade almost everyone of everything and win a complete strangers over with your words - yet for some reason the very people who clamed to be close to you are the ones refusing to listen?

[Beholderess]

JKoopman wrote...

You consider your former love interest cutting you off, ignoring your explanations, turning their back on you after you saved not just their life but the lives of everyone else in the colony, and no longer trusting in your morals and judgement when not 2 years ago you nigh single-handedly saved the Council and the entire universe from certain destruction at the hands of the reapers to be... staying consistent with their character?

Anderson stayed consistent with his character. "I don't agree with your choice of allies but I believe in you, Shepard, and I trust you enough to know you wouldn't be doing this without a damn good reason. I just can't be a part of it, sorry. Good luck and be careful." Ash/Kai's reaction was just... irrational.

And it made me hate her almost as much as I hated the turian Councilor after his infamous "Ah yes, "Reapers"..." remark.

Agreed completely! Espetially the bit about Anderson. "I don't agree with your choice of allies but I believe in you, Shepard,
and I trust you enough to know you wouldn't be doing this without a
damn good reason. I just can't be a part of it, sorry." - that's exactly the reaction I expected (and would accept from) Ash and Kaidan. Just couldn't put it to words as well as you did.
And let's face it - at least turian Councilor is hilarios=)

[Beholderess]

LPPrince wrote...

Matter of fact, here's an example of what would've made that interaction more favorable to the masses-

Shepard-"My God, I've been wanting to see you for so long! Nobody would tell me where you were. Are you ok? Did the Collectors do anything to you?"

Ash-"I'm fine, just shook up. Damn Collector's sent out a bunch of little bugs that paralyzed everyone in the colony."

Shepard-"Seeker swarms."

Ash-"I was able to shake it off and get away before they got me, but they captured everyone I was with."

EDI-"Shepard, about a third of the colonists were captured by the Collectors. There would have been more, had we not touched down.*

Ash-"What the....alright, I want an explanation. I hear about you being alive, then I hear about you joining Cerberus, flying around the Terminus Systems-"

Garrus(if you brought him)-"Ash, its a long story."

Ash-"God, Garrus too? What the hell is going on Shepard!? Why didn't you contact me!?"

Shepard-"Ash, I was dead. Really. I died on the Normandy, but Cerberus found my body and brought me back 2 years later. They want me to investigate why humans are disappearing around the Terminus Systems. And now you know why."

Random Squadmate-"The Collectors."

Ash-"So I'm supposed to believe this? After all I've heard about what you've done, what you've been doing, who you're with? Why didn't you go to the Alliance? Why is Cerberus still around!?"

Shepard-"I did! I went to the Citadel, Anderson didn't tell me where you were! And Cerberus is the only group willing to do anything about this! The Citadel, the Alliance-they don't want to bother with colonies in the Terminus Systems, and you know the reason for that, too."

Ash-"Bull. You could've reached me, you could've said something, ANYTHING."

*Ash starts to cry*

Ash-"I'd of helped you."

Shepard-"Ash, please don't-"

Ash-"No. I'm done. I'm Alliance to the bone. I know I can trust them. But you....and Cerberus....you don't even know, maybe they're helping the Collectors!"

Random Squadmate-"Typical Alliance Attitude."(Alter this per squaddie, this line being Miranda's)

Shepard-"Come on Ash, I can use you on the team. It'll be just like old times."

Ash-"I might not like aliens, but Cerberus, they HATE them. I'll never work for a group like that. I can't believe YOU would. Goodbye....skipper."

*Ash leaves*

Shep-"Joker, come pick us up. I'm tired of this colony."

That actually would be much better.

[Beholderess]

MiMiBelle wrote...

When Kaideen was giving me crap, I thought, "Ok...was Kaiden not stationed on the same ship under my command?   Did this obtuse b*stard not see what we were up against?  Did he not fight with me?"

The
Collector's came to the settlement and snatched up half the colony...and that idiot is whining about my relationship with Cerberus?  He trusted me before...why doubt me now? 
If it were an option, I would've dumped him right there on the spot.

This.
By the way, I still wonder if there is a way to officially end your ME1 relationship (have the picture turned down) without romancing anyone in ME2?

[drunken pyromaniac]