143 réponses à ce sujet

[Torjus]

Dunno why evryone is complaining about archer dmg.

My Daelish archer one shotted the revenent in redcliff with arrow of slaying and does atleast as much dmg as a 2h warrior.

The key 2 dmg is 2 have lethality and bow with rapid aim, u can then consentrate only on cunning and dex.

[wanderon]

I've got a couple of rogue archer types I'm fooling with in early levels a dwarf with no concrete plan for his future and a dalish elf lass destined to become a ranger -



I have not had too much trouble with them early on - both look like they will make relatively fun and interesting characters to play and with an entire party to work with I'm not much concerned that they may not do as much damage in the same manner as class combo B or C might do.



I suspect the whole archers as pointless concept is rooted in the meta gaming concept that only one or two character concepts can be relegated to super munchkin status and all other concepts must thus pale in comparison and yada yada yada but thats just my own somewhat jaded opinion. YMMV

[MBirkhofer]

There are a few problems with archers in DA:O.



1. magic spawn right on top of you npcs. Not as bad in DA, as it has been in NWN.

But it still happens. Combat right out of cutscenes, etc.

It breaks your stealth, and often puts your right in melee range of 3-5 npcs. Not cool for stealth rogues/archers. Mages at least can get some aoe stuns pretty quickly to help with this.

combat stealth is pretty high, min level 12 I think? Scattershot same thing, takes a while to get.

2. The good archer abilities take a long time to get. Scattershot, arrow of slaying, combat stealth.

Its the same with damage. Archer damage is horrible, until you get 13 or so, and those skills start stacking, and you get a decent bow, and have enough str/dex to start powering you attacks.

3. no runes/poisons/backstabs. I can't tell you how much better the chance to stun with every attack makes my dw rogue. She chain stuns, and does about about 400% more damage then an archer. Sure being in melee, and having run times is a con. But trust me, its not balanced.

4. stamina concerns are too much. Archers would be far better if they could make use of the various toggles much more, while still being able to use actives. Reducing the costs would improve pc archers, without doing much to OP npc ones.

[JHorwath]

I have two rogues/bards in my group. One rogue is heading down the spec path of an archer. I have critical shot and shattering shot with her. The other rogue has pinning and crippling shot but is specced as more of a melee rogue. I use the archers a ton. My tank goes ahead and taunts all the enemies. Wynn heals him and my archers attack the enemies around him. If the opportunity arises the melee rogue will put away the bow and go in for a quick dirty fighting and back stab then retreat back for more bow action.

*An interesting thing happened while I was playing last night that I thought was kind of cool. I was fighting the boss that comes from the tombstone in the forest. The tank did his usual thing and grabbed the charging mobs. He then went to attack the revenant that was a bit further away. All the mobs followed him so that left my mage and two archers/rogues in the back. There was an archer in the distance so my archers took him out first.

The tank was surrounded as usual so I decided to shield bash a white enemy off him. After the shield bash I had my melee rogue shoot a pinning shot. I was hoping to pin the enemy off the tank for some brief damage reduction. However, the pinning saving throw was made but now the off enemy had focus on my rogue. I switched to melee and used dirty fighting then killed it with some back stabs. After that my archers went back to pelting the revenant.

*I liked the idea of this sub pulling and I'm going to do that some more. When the tank is surrounded I'll shield bash an enemy off of him then pull the enemy back to the rouges. I thought this was extremely cool. If it makes any sense. So in theory, I guess, you could have the tank aggro all the mobs like usual and then pull the weaker mobs off him one at a time in a safe and timely manner with shield bash and a nice bow talent.

Modifié par JHorwath, 12 novembre 2009 - 06:15 .

[The_mango55]

eastoreispos wrote...

I joined this conversation late, but I find it hilarious that people were complaining that archers weren't a realistic class in Oblivion and thus our minds are 'ruined' expecting archers to be dps-viable classes.

Here's some realism in the form of history:

The English were the first to field longbows, most famously at the Battle of Agincourt where an army of 1000 English men-at-arms and 5000 longbowmen inflicted over 4 thousand (some French estimates go as high as 10,000) casualties against a French army while suffering approximately 1600 casualties. Granted, it was a French army the English were fighting so that skews the figures a bit, but the longbow was responsible for absolutely decimating the heavily armored French forces.

So how exactly is it 'unrealistic' that a bow class would not be viable dps?

Longbowmen had every advantage in that battle. They had the defensive position, fortifications deployed, advantageous terrain, etc. None of which players in an RPG are likely to have.

BTW, read up on the Battle of Patay to see the roles flipped.

[alexandros777]

I always regret not having my psuedo-Joan of Arc in the party.



No they aren't massive damage but she really balances out the party. Surprisingly darkspawn lock up things. And when the resources are low they still have their autoshoot.

[r0gue9]

 I'm having a lot of fun with my archer. I'm also using Leiliana in her archer role. Between the two of us, we do some very good dmg. Not great, but definitely nothing to scoff at. I just hit lvl 11 last nite (no idea why my profile is so slow to update), and my highest hit with Arrow of Slaying is 299 dmg. Not bad at all considering I did that from stealth, and nearly one-shot the Revenant in Redcliffe. I followed it up with a Critical shot, and he was dead before he reached my party. So the damage is not something to be taken lightly, because it may not be as high as melee dmg, but you get to do this dmg from relative safety.

I strongly recommend getting the Dexterity Hotfix patch. It helps alot, by increasing the hit rate for ranged weapons (since they currently miss way too often) and also by allowing dmg to scale more with dexterity.

http://dragonage.gul...rity_hotfix_101

[Lord Niah]

Liliana killed the high dragon for me. She just sat back there hitting the dragon with steady damage and shattering shots (no critical talents on her!) while my tank was getting mauled. My two mages were reduced to healing the tank, shooting staff bolts or using weaker single target spells.

I remember reading somewhere about some guy claiming his mage just hit the dragon with blizzard. I tried that tactic with 3x mages, but the dragon just flew out of the blizzard and landed on top of my healing mage, killing her in 1 hit! Nuking dragons does not work.

Cone of cold would seem like an option, but the mage must run up close to the dragon and pray it dosen't resist. The cone itself does little damage, though, and the dragon is very pissed once it thaws. I found that you had to have really high magic for this to even be viable, and even then it doesn't always work

As for melee guys attacking dragons (or other big bosses), it usually ends up with the mage having to heal more. Ranged attackers are godly against bosses, and archers are at least as good as or better than mages.

I wonder how much better my archer would have been with some combat stealth and critical shots?

[edit]

I am playing on hard difficulty, btw.

Modifié par Lord Niah, 13 novembre 2009 - 02:16 .

[goose9999]

Madlax27 wrote...

Arrow of slaying: Highest damage dealt = 822. 

Guys I am really sorry to necro this but I took this as a personal challenge...

http://social.biowar...na_id=218818941

1162... with a mage who can actually contribute to party damage and has utility... sorry :innocent:

[Losthunter12]

Suspage wrote...

It's clear that WoW ruined the mind of RP gamers.

strongly agreed

[noobiedude]

goose9999 wrote...

Madlax27 wrote...

Arrow of slaying: Highest damage dealt = 822. 

Guys I am really sorry to necro this but I took this as a personal challenge...

http://social.biowar...na_id=218818941

1162... with a mage who can actually contribute to party damage and has utility... sorry :innocent:

:innocent:

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I remember reading somewhere about some guy claiming his mage just hit the dragon with blizzard. I tried that tactic with 3x mages, but the dragon just flew out of the blizzard and landed on top of my healing mage, killing her in 1 hit! Nuking dragons does not work.

I soloed the high dragon with my NM solo mage on nightmare.

Run by the Temple that houses the urn. Get between the wall and the broken wall and the dragon can't fly on top of you. You will still get hit by some fireballs and his buffet will knock you down but he can't jump on you.  Winter's grasp can cast throgh walls. And if you watch his movement you will see when you expose yourself to cast other spells. Walking bomb is a DOT spell an works great for that.

[Zabaniya]

Archery's fine for me for the most part, personally. My only gripe is something that stems from playing other games where the archer is a DPS class (as well as watching Legolas in LotR ), and that's pretty much just firing speed.

I like it because in my opinion, it requires more tactical manuvering than other classes. Enemies don't really come close to me because I abuse Pinning and Shattering Shot (which knocks down; very useful) and it's just a matter of paying attention to whether your tank has Threaten on and abuses Taunt.  But very, very fun soloing with it on Nightmare.

But if it still doesn't suit you, then just get a mod.

Modifié par Zabaniya, 31 décembre 2009 - 11:14 .

[goose9999]

Hey noobie very impressive damage there, just wondering what class that is and what spell/talent. I looked at your profile and your highest damage is listed at around the same as mine so this is most likely not you =P. Any info would be great. Ive had my greatest success with damage with mana clash which is somewhat overpowered right now. I plan on making my next character a dalish elf archer; really hope its a blast. I have always loved archer classes and like zabaniya says above I feel it is a very tactial class, especially solo. Just a question zabaniya when you soloed on nightmare with your archer did you pick up the ranger specialization? I was leaning towards assassin/duelist myself.

[Grovermancer]

HA HA, returning after a 1 month layoff, and seeing the exact same topics!  (that right there ought to say something) ../../../images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png


Here is an 866 dmg Archer
I made. (NO hotfix, NO XP exploit -- didn't even know about it at the
time)  And I'm not a min/max player who holds a calculator while they
play; I know I could have made her theoretically slightly more damage
dealing. (with crits)  This Archer would deal "average" dmg in the 60's
IIR, but her Def and Skills made her untouchable.  (been playing
Fallout 3 -- almost called Skills "Perks" LOL!)

Having said that, Archers are NOT DPS machines.  Being able to once-in-a-while, against certain scrub enemies, deal big damage, does not compare to practically every other class that can do it all the time.

Archers
in this game seem more to be utility units that can stealth, work traps
and locks, pickpocket, and function as good support, or to draw/thin
out enemy ranks (due largely to the poor AI).  DW Rogue can do almost
all the same things, plus deal WAY more dmg.

Yeah, Archers are weak.  (Hey it's BW; look at NWN!)

[Frozeal]

Arrow of slaying





/thread

[Tusbat]

I stopped playing until someone enhances archery (and fixes shapeshifting but thats another story). zeollers mod was pretty good but its not compatible with the current patch. though I admired his efforts for listening to the fans and providing a not-overpowered option to improve archery, I would have liked to see a similar archery fix without waiting for months.

[Grovermancer]

Frozeal wrote...

Arrow of slaying


/thread

Once per minute.  And even then, it won't kill many upper-tier enemies.  (will seriously hurt them, though)  By the time it recharges, the skirmish is over.  So that's one powerful attack per skirmish.  That's pretty much it.

Otherwise, most regular, base Archer damage is inferiour to all other units' base damage.

Hell, even Mage upgraded staff bolts do MORE base damage!  Ridiculous!

[NDAv]

My dual wielding rogue has no archery talents but he's killed a few low level enemies singlehandedly with a bow. Does around 35-40 damage per hit. Key is having high dex, cunning, and Lethality. And real archers should also have Arrow of Slaying and Scattershot of course. Scattershot weakens large groups of enemies very well.



Remember, archers don't have to waste time approaching other enemy mages and archers, who tend to run away also. The archer can stay put and still do damage, unlike a melee character. So in these situations the archer will do the most damage. Archer will also do way more damage than mages who have run out of mana, in my experience.

[vicendor]

Arrow of Slaying is frekin awesome!

[Ascending-Gambit]

Personally, I think It would be kinda cool if arrows and bolts weren't so impossible to come by other then merchants. I'm always seeing swords, shields, armor and such dropping but rarely arrows. When you go to buy them an amount as little as ten can by anywhere from 1.5-2 sovereigns.

[krim80]

There is a abetter archery mod at the Nexus where u can choose 3 diffrent verison. I use the lie version wish gives you some free rune slots so now I can do some damage.

[JackFuzz]

For some reason the tip of all arrows in game are made of rubber. ANd rubber hasn't even been invented in ferelden.

[noobiedude]

goose9999 wrote...

Hey noobie very impressive damage there, just wondering what class that is and what spell/talent. I looked at your profile and your highest damage is listed at around the same as mine so this is most likely not you =P. Any info would be great. Ive had my greatest success with damage with mana clash which is somewhat overpowered right now. I plan on making my next character a dalish elf archer; really hope its a blast. I have always loved archer classes and like zabaniya says above I feel it is a very tactial class, especially solo. Just a question zabaniya when you soloed on nightmare with your archer did you pick up the ranger specialization? I was leaning towards assassin/duelist myself.

That is my character. the stupid profile doesn't update even though I've allowed the program through firewall and router.  It's mana clash on gaxkang. I used vulnerability and affliction hex on him and +30% spirit damage from gear.  I also had spell might and spell wisp up.  106 spellpower at the time.  Although by the end of that playthrough I had over 150 spellpower.

[BioDan10]

In Dragon Age, due to the nature of the skills and abilities the Archer is given, I'd always sit the Archer at the back of my party and do his/her damage from there. I'd allow my Archer to take a more defensive role and simply allow them to damage foes making them become weaker for the frontline of my party.



I expected nothing more .