559 réponses à ce sujet

[aaniadyen]

Tirigon wrote...

Darth Drago wrote...

I just don’t want to see Dragon Age Origins 2 turned into a overly simplified game that is changed so much from the first game in every game mechanic thing that could possibly be changed that you wouldn’t recognize it as a sequel at all. If I wanted that kind of treatment I’d go back and play Halo 3 ODST.

:crying::crying: But... But...

Halo ODST SUCKED!!!!

Totally ruined the series......

:crying::crying:

Halo ODST ruined the series?

And I suppose if it were good, it'd be like covering a turd in icecream sprinkles -.-

[Zanderat]

Tirigon wrote...

Zanderat wrote...

This is just blatantly wrong.  Go and play Wizardry 8, for reference.  Perfectly balanced.  Or System Shock 2.  Or Morrowind.  Or The Witcher.  Or......  you get the idea.   

I don´t know about System Shock 2 or Wizardry, but I played both Morrowind and the witcher.

And both TOTALLY SUPPORT MY CLAIM.

Try fighting daedra in Morrowind on level 1 - you hit never and die with 1 attack. Come back on 20 and the fight is challenging, but doable. Come back at 40 and everything dies in seconds with you being immortal. NOT what I want from a game.


In Witcher it wasn´t that bad, but the fights still got easier with every level-up, without becoming moe iteresting. In the end I tended to play a no-sword way of fighting and only spammed the fire spell..............

Umm, that's the whole point of leveling up.  That daedra that you couldn't beat at level 1 should be a cake walk at level 20.

[Tirigon]

Zanderat wrote...

Umm, that's the whole point of leveling up.  That daedra that you couldn't beat at level 1 should be a cake walk at level 20.

And that sucks. I want my skill to decide whether I win or loose, not my level.

[LynxAQ]

Did you people really think that a blight of a gaming company like EA would really not effect Bioware? I said this ages ago and would just get mobbed by brown nosed fanboys with their pitchforks at the ready.



DA:O was an amazing game (yes it had a few flaws etc, but NO game is without them.), both Wardens Keep and Stone Prisoner DLC's where well made and brilliant quality. Wardens Keep was a tad short but still offered tons of dialogue/lore/high quality design etc. Now why is that? Because DA:O, Wardens Keep and Stone Prisoner where all essentially made before EA bought Bioware.



Now take a look at the dragon age stuff since EA control... Return to Ostacrap, load of rubbish, virtually zero dialogue, easy as hell, bland and generally a waste of money... the festival stuff, do I even have to explain... and then the battle of denerum from the darkspawn PoV... just rubbish and crap - i never bought this one as after the RtO and awakening crap there was no way I was gonna hand over more money for crap. My mate unfortunately bought it so I know its rubbish. I just feel pity for him and anyone else who continue to support sloppy rubbish games/addons etc. Its people like him and others who are to blame for developers getting away with crap that is being released these days.



Then look at awakening... this must be the worst pile of horse manure to ever infest an amazing game (the original DA:O)... seriously this was the final nail in the coffin for me in buying anymore things for DA:O.



I went from extremely happy -> DA:O, Stone Prisoner, Wardens Keep and then it went to Slightly Disappointed and Annoyed but willing to give Bioware another chance after RtO, to this company can go get bent with this **** they are releasing... awakening.



DA:O 2 will not be any better, sorry but it will just as bad as awakening so don't get your hopes up.

[Daemon300]

^Hey, don't blame me. I only bought them for the achievements. But I stopped playing Awakening, because of the bugs/glitches. No achievement is worth THAT.

[Tirigon]

Hopefully BioWare will learn from the reactions to Awakening.

[yummysoap]

Tirigon wrote...

Zanderat wrote...

Umm, that's the whole point of leveling up.  That daedra that you couldn't beat at level 1 should be a cake walk at level 20.

And that sucks. I want my skill to decide whether I win or loose, not my level.

Bingo. That's why I actually prefer the (casualized) Mass Effect 2 over the (I just persuaded this random couple to have an abortion now I'm 5% better at using my assault rifle) Mass Effect 1.

I mean, I don't deny that Mass Effect 2 got a little EA treatment, but on the whole I'd say I massively prefer the gameplay to ME1, and though I'd prefer Dragon Age to not have End Mission screens and the like, I wouldn't mind it if the combat was geared a little bit away from the WOW press-on-a-skill-and-watch-player-swing-a-sword-directly-ahead-of-him-even-if-enemy-is-on-the-ground and more oh-my-god-I'm-actually-swinging-mah-sword-mahself-and-mah-sword-is-actually-hitting-this-guy-and-mah-general-combat-is-much-more-fluid-and-much-less-awkward.

I still want levelling, I just want to potentially see a skilled level 1-er be able to take on more than giant rats (cue ten thousand forumites rushing in to tell me how they could defeat the archdemon on level 1 on nightmare naked with their bare fists because dragon age is just so easy and dragon age 2 is going to suck because they'll change things so therefore it will suck).

[Vicious]

Now why is that? Because DA:O, Wardens Keep and Stone Prisoner where all essentially made before EA bought Bioware.
Now take a look at the dragon age stuff since EA control

Hey moron. EA bought Bioware in October 11, 2007.

Dragon Age wasn't 'finished' the way we know it until early 2009.

At least check your facts before you cry against the EA dictators.

God I hate your type.

Modifié par Vicious, 31 mai 2010 - 01:13 .

[CybAnt1]

As you level up, this gets better; however, once you reach a certain level, for me it´s usually around 14 - 16 (of course later with a bad build) you are so powerful that the combat becomes a bit boring.

A good game, as we've discussed in other threads, will address this by both level and challenge scaling.

The problem is not just to scale the levels of the opposition to match your levels -- it's also to scale challenge, because at a certain point the crappy AI and poor ability usage of a level 18 hurlock makes it no match whatsoever for a level 18 warrior (or other char). 

I know there was the guy who hated level scaling, but it's either that, or yes, it gets more boring. You do have to take your pick. I prefer it not getting boring. However, as I said in that thread, level scaling the opposition to match yours is only half the battle. There needs to be challenge scaling also. Sometimes that means replacing the level 18 scaled-up bandit with something more fierce and dangerous, with more allies, and that uses its abilities and AI with more effectiveness.



 

[Hollingdale]

LynxAQ wrote...

Did you people really think that a blight of a gaming company like EA would really not effect Bioware? I said this ages ago and would just get mobbed by brown nosed fanboys with their pitchforks at the ready.

DA:O was an amazing game (yes it had a few flaws etc, but NO game is without them.), both Wardens Keep and Stone Prisoner DLC's where well made and brilliant quality. Wardens Keep was a tad short but still offered tons of dialogue/lore/high quality design etc. Now why is that? Because DA:O, Wardens Keep and Stone Prisoner where all essentially made before EA bought Bioware.

Now take a look at the dragon age stuff since EA control... Return to Ostacrap, load of rubbish, virtually zero dialogue, easy as hell, bland and generally a waste of money... the festival stuff, do I even have to explain... and then the battle of denerum from the darkspawn PoV... just rubbish and crap - i never bought this one as after the RtO and awakening crap there was no way I was gonna hand over more money for crap. My mate unfortunately bought it so I know its rubbish. I just feel pity for him and anyone else who continue to support sloppy rubbish games/addons etc. Its people like him and others who are to blame for developers getting away with crap that is being released these days.

Then look at awakening... this must be the worst pile of horse manure to ever infest an amazing game (the original DA:O)... seriously this was the final nail in the coffin for me in buying anymore things for DA:O.

I went from extremely happy -> DA:O, Stone Prisoner, Wardens Keep and then it went to Slightly Disappointed and Annoyed but willing to give Bioware another chance after RtO, to this company can go get bent with this **** they are releasing... awakening.

DA:O 2 will not be any better, sorry but it will just as bad as awakening so don't get your hopes up.

I hate Awakenings too because I wanna be part of the gang! Awakenings reaaaally sucks guys amirite? It has like stupidiest dialogue system of all time unlike Origins which is utter perfection to the last decimal of Pi!

Nm that Awakenings unlike Origins has a mature cast of characters that aren't hellbent on either whining, goofing around or believing that their own view of the world totally must be THE RIGHT ONE AND EVERYONE ELSE SUX.
Also NM that Awakenings has a deeper and more engaging (thanks to the fact that it does actually contain an element of suspense unlike Origins which is 100% layed out from the moment you leave Ostagar) story that actually does something with the extremely Generic world that Origins presents. Now I don't hate Origins but you lame ass forumite nerds who overly bash Awakenings while praising Origins like sect members in every goddamn thread are tiring.

On a sidenote: Linear main quest progression can effectively remedy any leveling problems while at the same time allowing for a better story.

Modifié par Hollingdale, 31 mai 2010 - 01:45 .

[CybAnt1]

I thought the story in Awakening was fine. I also liked the characters, even if it wasn't the best mechanism for interacting with them. There was an aspect to it that kind of felt like "you're not meant to get all of this unless you read the DA novels" and I never have, but that's neither here nor there.



That wasn't my problem. My dislike was the bugs. That, and other aspects of it that felt rushed & unfinished. But I've said that a dozen times before.

[yummysoap]

Hollingdale, while I do agree that most people on this forum treat DA:O as though it's some holy scripture never to be altered in any way, your complete dismissal of their opinions seem just as shortsighted.

As an expansion Awakening was just about all we could have hoped for. People seemed to be expecting a fully-funded epic new release, and it's not Bioware's fault that it didn't meet their ridiculously high expectations.

Modifié par yummysoap, 31 mai 2010 - 01:54 .

[faction699]

So is this what happens when you release 2 games in the same world with different storylines and casts of characters? People just argue over which is better?



All the more reason for future dragon age games to feature the same characters from Origins and Awakening, to prevent arguments like this~

[Zanderat]

CybAnt1 wrote...

As you level up, this gets better; however, once you reach a certain level, for me it´s usually around 14 - 16 (of course later with a bad build) you are so powerful that the combat becomes a bit boring.

A good game, as we've discussed in other threads, will address this by both level and challenge scaling.

The problem is not just to scale the levels of the opposition to match your levels -- it's also to scale challenge, because at a certain point the crappy AI and poor ability usage of a level 18 hurlock makes it no match whatsoever for a level 18 warrior (or other char). 

I know there was the guy who hated level scaling, but it's either that, or yes, it gets more boring. You do have to take your pick. I prefer it not getting boring. However, as I said in that thread, level scaling the opposition to match yours is only half the battle. There needs to be challenge scaling also. Sometimes that means replacing the level 18 scaled-up bandit with something more fierce and dangerous, with more allies, and that uses its abilities and AI with more effectiveness.



 

You don't need to level scale, exactly....  I prefer the approach of making certain ares too hard until you are sufficiently skilled to survive.  A good leveling system gives a sense of accomplishment without ever becoming too easy. 

[Graspiloot]

I find casualized such a weird term, as stated before, mostly because everyone just seems to group every aspect they don't like about a game as "casualizing".



I do agree for a part that it's mostly a hack'n slash rpg, I would prefer if there were more ways to solve a problem. For example in vampire bloodlines you wouldn't get experience from killing random mobs, but you would get exp for solving the quest or a problem (like extra exp if you did it stealthy).

This would give so much room for more approaches to the same situation (like persuasion or stealth).



Also I do not see where all the Oblivion hate comes from all the time and why it wouldn't be an rpg. You can role-play into whomever you want to be and you have all the freedom to do so (even more than in DA:O). It just seems that because 'casuals' love it, 'hardcore' players automatically hate it.



Lastly, EA is really getting blamed for everything, but bioware has always kinda been a mainstream company. It's just that games seem to be rushed more now, especially awakening, which had a good story and good characters imo, but was almost unplayable cause of the amount of bugs.

[Tirigon]

Hollingdale wrote...


I hate Awakenings too because I wanna be part of the gang! Awakenings reaaaally sucks guys amirite? It has like stupidiest dialogue system of all time unlike Origins which is utter perfection to the last decimal of Pi!

Nm that Awakenings unlike Origins has a mature cast of characters that aren't hellbent on either whining, goofing around or believing that their own view of the world totally must be THE RIGHT ONE AND EVERYONE ELSE SUX.
Also NM that Awakenings has a deeper and more engaging (thanks to the fact that it does actually contain an element of suspense unlike Origins which is 100% layed out from the moment you leave Ostagar) story that actually does something with the extremely Generic world that Origins presents. Now I don't hate Origins but you lame ass forumite nerds who overly bash Awakenings while praising Origins like sect members in every goddamn thread are tiring.

On a sidenote: Linear main quest progression can effectively remedy any leveling problems while at the same time allowing for a better story.

Well tastes differ I guess.

I found the characters in Awakening not exactly bad, but boring compared to the ones from Origins, the dialogue system was horrible, the lack of romances sucked and the story wasn´t exactly good either.
Also it was too easy. If you would ever be challenged the threat of the new darkspawn might be interesting. But if you can kill a hundred of them without even feeling threathened it makes the entire "Oh noes Darkspawn invasion!" thing ridiculous. I bet I could have killed all the 100000 Darkspawn alone if the game would let me.

[Lux]

LynxAQ wrote...

Then look at awakening... this must be the worst pile of horse manure to ever infest an amazing game (the original DA:O)... seriously this was the final nail in the coffin for me in buying anymore things for DA:O.

Apart from game breaking bugs and being overpriced, the expansion has its good points in storyline, voice acting and decision-making, similar to DAO. I liked the fact that I could expand my character with better gear and skills.  I had fun with it, though limited by a slew of problems. It was frustrating to have lost my gear in the silverite mine and had to roll back to a previous save, or noticing how rushed this release had been.

I would hope to see redeeming points in the next expansions and DLCs. As for DA2, I wouldn't expect an oversimplification of what already made this game a success, but an improvement from the original. Having DA2 rushed in order to meet a certain release date, as with Awakening, would be extremely bad.

[TheMadCat]

Vicious wrote...

Now why is that? Because DA:O, Wardens Keep and Stone Prisoner where all essentially made before EA bought Bioware.
Now take a look at the dragon age stuff since EA control

Hey moron. EA bought Bioware in October 11, 2007.

Dragon Age wasn't 'finished' the way we know it until early 2009.

At least check your facts before you cry against the EA dictators.

God I hate your type.

That doesn't really mean anything. No one is going to go back and redesign or retrack a game that has already been in development for 3 or so years, increases to the development length and adds onto the budget so not really worth. Very subtle changes is about all that would have even been considered.

[aaniadyen]

Zanderat wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

As
you level up, this gets better; however, once you reach a certain
level, for me it´s usually around 14 - 16 (of course later with a bad
build) you are so powerful that the combat becomes a bit boring.

A
good game, as we've discussed in other threads, will address this by
both level and challenge scaling.

The problem is not just to
scale the levels of the opposition to match your levels -- it's also to
scale challenge, because at a certain point the crappy AI and poor
ability usage of a level 18 hurlock makes it no match whatsoever for a
level 18 warrior (or other char). 

I know there was the guy who
hated level scaling, but it's either that, or yes, it gets more boring.
You do have to take your pick. I prefer it not getting boring. However,
as I said in that thread, level scaling the opposition to match yours is
only half the battle. There needs to be challenge scaling also.
Sometimes that means replacing the level 18 scaled-up bandit with
something more fierce and dangerous, with more allies, and that uses its
abilities and AI with more effectiveness.



 

You
don't need to level scale, exactly....  I prefer the approach of making
certain ares too hard until you are sufficiently skilled to survive.  A
good leveling system gives a sense of accomplishment without ever
becoming too easy. 

This. Exactly. You don't need level scaling to maintain challenge. You simply need to design it so the starting areas are coincidentally set in areas that have you engaging in lower-level type conbat and have it go from there. It doesn't even need to be linear as long as you have enough areas to allow players a choice within level ranges. This way you can control how challenging the game is and you're not restricted by to a difficulty switch to determine (solely) how hard you game is. Unlike in Origins where everything as ALWAYS EXACTLY 1 level below you except for special enemies who follow rules that are just as rigid. Also, this will allow for more RP options. if you'd like to RP being a very adept combatant. You can be, granted you'll kill everything rather easily, but wouldn't it be easy for someone skilled? I love how everyone ****es and moans about how easy Awakening was when you killed a goddamn archdemon in the last game. You really expect some warring rabble of darkspawn to be as easy as a Tevinter god?

Modifié par aaniadyen, 31 mai 2010 - 02:57 .

[Tirigon]

aaniadyen wrote...

This. Exactly. You don't need level scaling to maintain challenge. You simply need to design it so the starting areas are coincidentally set in areas that have you engaging in lower-level type conbat and have it go from there. It doesn't even need to be linear as long as you have enough areas to allow players a choice within level ranges. This way you can control how challenging the game is and you're not restricted by to a difficulty switch to determine (solely) how hard you game is. Unlike in Origins where everything as ALWAYS EXACTLY 1 level below you except for special enemies who follow rules that are just as rigid. Also, this will allow for more RP options. if you'd like to RP being a very adept combatant. You can be, granted you'll kill everything rather easily, but wouldn't it be easy for someone skilled? I love how everyone ****es and moans about how easy Awakening was when you killed a goddamn archdemon in the last game. You really expect some warring rabble of darkspawn to be as easy as a Tevinter god?

Well the darkspawn are being smarter in Awakenings. And I would suspect a good swordsman is harder to defeat than an ugly dragon who is already wounded so heavily she can´t even fly anymore.

[aaniadyen]

Tirigon wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...

This. Exactly. You don't need level scaling to maintain challenge. You simply need to design it so the starting areas are coincidentally set in areas that have you engaging in lower-level type conbat and have it go from there. It doesn't even need to be linear as long as you have enough areas to allow players a choice within level ranges. This way you can control how challenging the game is and you're not restricted by to a difficulty switch to determine (solely) how hard you game is. Unlike in Origins where everything as ALWAYS EXACTLY 1 level below you except for special enemies who follow rules that are just as rigid. Also, this will allow for more RP options. if you'd like to RP being a very adept combatant. You can be, granted you'll kill everything rather easily, but wouldn't it be easy for someone skilled? I love how everyone ****es and moans about how easy Awakening was when you killed a goddamn archdemon in the last game. You really expect some warring rabble of darkspawn to be as easy as a Tevinter god?

Well the darkspawn are being smarter in Awakenings. And I would suspect a good swordsman is harder to defeat than an ugly dragon who is already wounded so heavily she can´t even fly anymore.

The archdemon couldn't fly because it's wing got cut in half, not because it was lacking the strength to. Besides, the darkspawn in Awakenings are barely becomming sentient, while this would account for slightly more skill...if you'll remember, everything in Awakenings (Yes, ents included) are more difficult than just about everything in Origins (Possible exception of the high dragon, though this may only seem such because everything in Awakening is overpowered.) So, really, they are harder to defeat. A lot harder. Try importing a level 35 warden with full awakening gear into the last battle with the archdemon. See what happens. And besides that...does it really make much sense for (the last boss of Awakenings) to be so much harder to kill than the archdemon? Even when it just comes down to armor, or number of hitpoints. It's absurd.

Modifié par aaniadyen, 31 mai 2010 - 03:16 .

[Tirigon]

aaniadyen wrote...


The archdemon couldn't fly because it's wing got cut in half, not because it was lacking the strength to. Besides, the darkspawn in Awakenings are barely becomming sentient, while this would account for slightly more skill...if you'll remember, everything in Awakenings (Yes, ents included) are more difficult than just about everything in Origins (Possible exception of the high dragon, though this may only seem such because everything in Awakening is overpowered.) So, really, they are harder to defeat. A lot harder. Try importing a level 35 warden with full awakening gear into the last battle with the archdemon. See what happens. =P

You did type that wrong, right? You must mean "everything in Awakenings is EASIER than just about everything in Awakenings".

I mean, except for the Mother EVERY fight was f*cking easy. My main char died only 3 times before the last fight - and 2 times was because of friendly fire by the new, overpowered archer skills.

[Behindyounow]

Meh. I dont play Biowares games for the gameplay.



The Stories, choices and characters are why I buy Bioware games.

[Sidney]

aaniadyen wrote...

This. Exactly. You don't need level scaling to maintain challenge. You simply need to design it so the starting areas are coincidentally set in areas that have you engaging in lower-level type conbat and have it go from there. It doesn't even need to be linear as long as you have enough areas to allow players a choice within level ranges.

Yeah but this is the rub. The magicaly cry of "non-linear" goes up and any game, see Fallout 1 or 2, where some places are too hard become de facto linear. You can't have enough areas to scale appropriately so that it isn't a "path" through the game - even FO had a fairly basic and I suspect common "path" through the game despite the breadth of the game world.

It is really a matter of what matters to players. You get freedom but you have to have level scaling or you get a pre-determined world with encounters that more closely match your challenge levels.

The one thing that FO1-2 really did right was to not scale the random encounters. Sometimes you get Geckos and sometimes you get the Brotherhood of Steel. If you are super powerful you get that near godlike feel ripping through low-end critters, which is nice sometimes, but you can also be challenges. Low levels type need to learnt to run sometimes.

[aaniadyen]

Tirigon wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...


The archdemon couldn't fly because it's wing got cut in half, not because it was lacking the strength to. Besides, the darkspawn in Awakenings are barely becomming sentient, while this would account for slightly more skill...if you'll remember, everything in Awakenings (Yes, ents included) are more difficult than just about everything in Origins (Possible exception of the high dragon, though this may only seem such because everything in Awakening is overpowered.) So, really, they are harder to defeat. A lot harder. Try importing a level 35 warden with full awakening gear into the last battle with the archdemon. See what happens. =P

You did type that wrong, right? You must mean "everything in Awakenings is EASIER than just about everything in Awakenings".

I mean, except for the Mother EVERY fight was f*cking easy. My main char died only 3 times before the last fight - and 2 times was because of friendly fire by the new, overpowered archer skills.

I typed it correctly. Like I said. Try importing a warden from Awakenings into Origins and see how easy everything is. I can garuntee you it would be easier than anything in Awakenings. If you had the stats you get in Awakening in Origins, Origins would be very easy. My DW rogue, in the right situation, could do a good 350 dps by the end of awakenings. Compare that to the 200 most max out at the end of Origins. Who is stronger? The boss that can last 12 seconds being hit with 350 dps, or the boss who can last 18 being hit with 200 dps?

Modifié par aaniadyen, 31 mai 2010 - 03:24 .