2501 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiannawolf]

Im still on the fence. Might get it if it somehow ties into ME3. Thing is: Just how many TIM screw ups will I have to clean up even though I hate working for them. Need Post FRACK OFF TIM quests....pretty please with elcor on top!

[ZeroXraven]

You people are just spamming this whole topic up, this isn't a thread about comparisons to Mass Effect 1 and 2...as a matter of fact Mass Effect 1 is not mentioned AT ALL in the Topic....you people will never stop argueing over which two games are better....Lets see, they where made by the same dang company, have the same central characters and universe, and also connect to each other....so in all honesty they are the same just one's a continuation of the other...stop comparing the two games and just love the trilogy for what it is...I highly doubt any of you could make a better game yourself so quit acting like you know what makes a game good...Please just stop lol....Talk about the new DLC....

[Ecael]

[quote]Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

[quote]Ecael wrote...
There was only the illusion of exploration. As I mentioned, Mass Effect 1 used the same four prefabricated buildings and a variable terrain generator for every single side planet. Only the sky looked drastically different on some of the planets.

The mission complete screen is there to prevent you from having to run back the same way you came from (this is not exploration either, because Shepard already went through it the first time!). Otherwise, Mass Effect 1 was just a straight line from the Mako drop off point to the mission objective.[/quote]

I'm not talking about unique terrain. I'm talking about exploring it. In ME1 I can land on a UNC planet, farm for minerals for a bit or scrounge up some new equipment, and then leave. Then I can return and do the planet's quest and leave again. Then I could return whenever I wanted. That's exploration. ME2 just warps you into the mission and magically warps you back out when you're done. That's not exploration. That's shooting gallery busy-work, that breaks immersion. And the mission complete screen is only there to further break the immersion. If this was an RPG you wouldn't want to break immersion, but it's a shooter. ME1 was an RPG.[/quote]
Returning to the same exact place to gather minerals (as if that's any more or less fun than planet-scanning) is not exploration. And if menu screens and warping in the game break immersion, then:

-Inventory and mission log menu system must really be immersion breaking
-The ridiculously slow elevators (that no other NPC ever uses) in the year 2150+ must be immersion breaking
-Teleporting back into the Normandy from the planet with a loading screen must be immersion breaking

[quote][quote]It's difficult to compare a DLC that hasn't been released yet.[/quote]

I'm comparing the basic plot, which Chris spelled out in detail. Renegade VI taking over robots and trying to spread? Yeah, we've done that many, many times. I highly, highly doubt this will be any more compelling a story than all the other ones. ME2 is not big on twisting storylines. We're given the A plot from the get-go and the rest of the game is busy work collecting squaddies (who are worthless because they can all die).[/quote]
Then come up with a better plot for a side mission, and submit it to Chris Priestly to pass it on to the DLC team.

[quote][quote]Mass Effect 1 and 2 are based on dialogue and shooting people who don't have much reason to be there? Why do people need to keep informing others of this?[/quote]

I never said ME1 wasn't like this. I'm saying shooting an endless onslaught of robots is busy-work. There's no plot-based excitement there. That's a little different when you're fighting living things. You can wonder as to why they're fighting you, and in ME1 you even had instances where you could convince people not to. You can sort of do that in ME2, but it doesn't feel authentic. Convincing random batarians A, B, and C not to shoot you (when no reason is given as to why they'd want to shoot you) is a little different than talking to a Noveria cop being paid under the table, for example. That kind of confrontation is exceedingly rare in ME2.[/quote]
An endless onslaught of living, breathing things is different? So any mission involving geth in either Mass Effect 1 or 2 is pointless because all geth think the same with exceptions? In Mass Effect 2 you even get to talk to a geth and find out the reasons behind what they did. You're still looking at the previous game with rose-colored glasses here.

[quote][quote]And I can't wait for the inventory screen to pop up telling me that I need to omni-gel again because I'm reaching the 150 item limit. The information is there to help you, not to insult you.[/quote]

I think the mission complete screen has no reason to be there. At all. I just spent like 4 minutes doing this mission; I know what I picked up... It's insulting. Honestly, I think it's only there to mask all the warping you do between missions. You don't have to walk back to the Normandy or to a transportation vehicle after these missions. It's jarring and it saps immersion.[/quote]
Care to explain how the Mako returns to the Normandy or how the Citadel Rapid Transit gets to its location in Mass Effect 1?

[quote]If you're really complaining about things like this, then you're not playing the wrong game, you're playing the wrong trilogy.[/quote]I had no real complaints with ME1, so why am I playing the wrong trilogy? These things were much less jarring and immersion-sapping in ME1 than in ME2. ME2 is just a giant busy-work game.[/quote][/quote]
Many of the things you're complaining about are found in Mass Effect 1 as well. You could replace "ME2" with "ME1" in a lot of your arguments and they would still apply in some form.

[fortunesque]

Fiannawolf wrote...

Im still on the fence. Might get it if it somehow ties into ME3. Thing is: Just how many TIM screw ups will I have to clean up even though I hate working for them. Need Post FRACK OFF TIM quests....pretty please with elcor on top!

QFT.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about Cerberus and helping their rogue AI problem. I say we let the facility burn.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ZeroXraven wrote...

You people are just spamming this whole topic up, this isn't a thread about comparisons to Mass Effect 1 and 2...as a matter of fact Mass Effect 1 is not mentioned AT ALL in the Topic....you people will never stop argueing over which two games are better....Lets see, they where made by the same dang company, have the same central characters and universe, and also connect to each other....so in all honesty they are the same just one's a continuation of the other...stop comparing the two games and just love the trilogy for what it is...I highly doubt any of you could make a better game yourself so quit acting like you know what makes a game good...Please just stop lol....Talk about the new DLC....

HYPOCRITE OMG!!!

This thread is not about complaining about the content of other posts!

OMG NOW IM A HYPOCRITE TOO FOR COMPLAINING ABOUT YOUR POST!! NOOOOOOOOOOO!

/snark

[ZeroXraven]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

ZeroXraven wrote...

You people are just spamming this whole topic up, this isn't a thread about comparisons to Mass Effect 1 and 2...as a matter of fact Mass Effect 1 is not mentioned AT ALL in the Topic....you people will never stop argueing over which two games are better....Lets see, they where made by the same dang company, have the same central characters and universe, and also connect to each other....so in all honesty they are the same just one's a continuation of the other...stop comparing the two games and just love the trilogy for what it is...I highly doubt any of you could make a better game yourself so quit acting like you know what makes a game good...Please just stop lol....Talk about the new DLC....

HYPOCRITE OMG!!!

This thread is not about complaining about the content of other posts!

OMG NOW IM A HYPOCRITE TOO FOR COMPLAINING ABOUT YOUR POST!! NOOOOOOOOOOO!

/snark

Your a moron....

[ThisIsMadness91]

I forgot how we got to this point...



I agree with the people who don't like the fact that this mission requires us to further aid Cerberus. That's okay for the people who support them (Why? They're terrible people with an even more terrible track record.), but for people like me who told the Illusive Man to shove it, it just seems strange to be helping them again.

[spacehamsterZH]

darknoon5 wrote...
I'd ignore anybody with a blue avatar

I wouldn't say it's everyone with a Liara avatar, but the most irrational "omg me2 sux so muhc i haet u biower" posts do seem to come mostly from people with Liara avatars. Pretty strange for a group of people who are supposedly fans of, you know, a scientist. *hides under a rock*

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Ecael wrote...
Returning to the same exact place to gather minerals (as if that's any more or less fun than planet-scanning) is not exploration. And if menu screens and warping in the game break immersion, then:

-Inventory and mission log menu system must really be immersion breaking
-The ridiculously slow elevators (that no other NPC ever uses) in the year 2150+ must be immersion breaking
-Teleporting back into the Normandy from the planet with a loading screen must be immersion breaking

You're completely clueless as to what I'm arguing here, it seems. I never said menu screens break immersion. I like menu screens; as long as I can control the menu screens it's not immersion breaking.
- The inventory is a menu screen. It has my inventory in it. I like that. I am playing a game, after all.
- The elevators? If anything they ADD to the immersion. I loved the elevator scenes. It made me feel like I was going somewhere. All this ME2 warping is just annoying. That's immersion-breaking.
- In ME1? I'm "warping" in ME1 from the MAKO. That's a transportation vehicle so, again, not that immersion-breaking. Feros - You walk back to the Normandy. Noveria - You walk back to the Peak 15 shuttle. Therum - The Normandy picks you up. Virmire - The Normandy evacuates you. UNC missions - You use the MAKO. Ilos - You use the Conduit.
How many of the ME2 missions are like? In the vast majority of them you just press the B button and magically warp to the galaxy map on the Normandy. That's immersion-breaking. Makes the game feel disjointed as hell.

Then come up with a better plot for a side mission, and submit it to Chris Priestly to pass it on to the DLC team.

That's not my job, now is it? That's like suggesting to someone who says "I don't like the sauce on Big Macs." to write a composition for sauce and send it to McD's. It's pointless. The difference here is that I can order a Big Mac without the sauce. I can't play ME2 without the stuff I don't like. And I liked ME1, so I want to see the trilogy through. Hence I am telling BioWare (and you) what I don't like about it.  All this "You can't do better yourself" and "Then don't play it!!" crap isn't really an argument so much as a deflection of the point.

An endless onslaught of living, breathing things is different? So any mission involving geth in either Mass Effect 1 or 2 is pointless because all geth think the same with exceptions? In Mass Effect 2 you even get to talk to a geth and find out the reasons behind what they did. You're still looking at the previous game with rose-colored glasses here.

Legion is not "a geth". Legion is a collection of geth. It's not an individual that gives insight on geth reasons. And the geth are still robots. They operate on programs, and can be hacked. Hacked robots are not exciting adversaries. Brainwashed living things are not any different, except you know that they're living things and not simple robots.
And I don't ever recall using the word "pointless". I said it's not very compelling, and it isn't. You're making an awful lot of assumptions about me in order to "write me off" in your own mind as a ME1 fangirl.

Care to explain how the Mako returns to the Normandy or how the Citadel Rapid Transit gets to its location in Mass Effect 1?

The Mako has jets. I imagine the Normandy swoops down to collect it and the Mako jumps into the cargo hold. The Citadel rapid transit is obviously a "car", duh. You can clearly see the vehicle by the transit terminal.
Simple. But how do I get back to the Normandy from Mordin's clinic? I press B and magically warp there!

See, it's the little things that add realism. They skip an awful lot of detail in ME2 for the sake of "player convenience". Take the weapon lockers and such. They aren't any more realistic than having a "magic" inventory screen. It's like those magic item boxes in Resident Evil. They may limit the accessibility of your items, but they certainly aren't realistic or better.

Many of the things you're complaining about are found in Mass Effect 1 as well. You could replace "ME2" with "ME1" in a lot of your arguments and they would still apply in some form.

Not really. There are differences, as I've pointed out and continue to point out.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

ZeroXraven wrote...

Your a moron....

"Your" is possessive. You're looking for the "you are" combination word "you're".

My post was a joke, but I do find humor in the irony of your post here. Thanks for the laugh.

[Barquiel]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...
I'd ignore anybody with a blue avatar

I wouldn't say it's everyone with a Liara avatar, but the most irrational "omg me2 sux so muhc i haet u biower" posts do seem to come mostly from people with Liara avatars. Pretty strange for a group of people who are supposedly fans of, you know, a scientist. *hides under a rock*

Liara is dark and edgy in ME2...we adapt ourselves accordingly.

[Spectre921]

ZeroXraven wrote...

You people are just spamming this whole topic up, this isn't a thread about comparisons to Mass Effect 1 and 2...as a matter of fact Mass Effect 1 is not mentioned AT ALL in the Topic....you people will never stop argueing over which two games are better....Lets see, they where made by the same dang company, have the same central characters and universe, and also connect to each other....so in all honesty they are the same just one's a continuation of the other...stop comparing the two games and just love the trilogy for what it is...I highly doubt any of you could make a better game yourself so quit acting like you know what makes a game good...Please just stop lol....Talk about the new DLC....

I agree. These forums are gettin annoying. Its the same with every dlc that is announced, first its "oh this sounds interesting" and then it escalates into arguments about which game it better, or which game has the best inventory system. Or that the dlc should have been free. Its really gettin old ppl.

[Fiannawolf]

Hmm, you know, the DLC might be worth it if I can hack into cerberus' mainframe and feed it the Zordon of OZ, then POOF! no more "OMG Cmd! We stepped in it again! We rezzed u so saaaaaaaaave us! " mentality the poor 3 headed dog has.

[NamiraWilhelm]

My struggle to get the remaining 100xp points to get to level 30 is hopefully over, yay

Hope its worth the price doh

[Ecael]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Returning to the same exact place to gather minerals (as if that's any more or less fun than planet-scanning) is not exploration. And if menu screens and warping in the game break immersion, then:

-Inventory and mission log menu system must really be immersion breaking
-The ridiculously slow elevators (that no other NPC ever uses) in the year 2150+ must be immersion breaking
-Teleporting back into the Normandy from the planet with a loading screen must be immersion breaking

You're completely clueless as to what I'm arguing here, it seems. I never said menu screens break immersion. I like menu screens; as long as I can control the menu screens it's not immersion breaking.
- The inventory is a menu screen. It has my inventory in it. I like that. I am playing a game, after all.
- The elevators? If anything they ADD to the immersion. I loved the elevator scenes. It made me feel like I was going somewhere. All this ME2 warping is just annoying. That's immersion-breaking.

And the items are all named numerals I through X, and Shepard can apparently carry 150 of them before having to omni-gel them. Again, you're playing a shooter, not a menu management game (of course, you're managing menus of weapons which you then use to shoot things).

Lots of "warping" in Mass Effect 1 as well. You're simply ignoring it.

Then come up with a better plot for a side mission, and submit it to Chris Priestly to pass it on to the DLC team.

That's not my job, now is it? That's like suggesting to someone who says "I don't like the sauce on Big Macs." to write a composition for sauce and send it to McD's. It's pointless. The difference here is that I can order a Big Mac without the sauce. I can't play ME2 without the stuff I don't like. And I liked ME1, so I want to see the trilogy through. Hence I am telling BioWare (and you) what I don't like about it.  All this "You can't do better yourself" and "Then don't play it!!" crap isn't really an argument so much as a deflection of the point.

Then don't go to McDonalds? There are many restaurants out there, and you could even cook your own game meal if you wanted to.

An endless onslaught of living, breathing things is different? So any mission involving geth in either Mass Effect 1 or 2 is pointless because all geth think the same with exceptions? In Mass Effect 2 you even get to talk to a geth and find out the reasons behind what they did. You're still looking at the previous game with rose-colored glasses here.

Legion is not "a geth". Legion is a collection of geth. It's not an individual that gives insight on geth reasons. And the geth are still robots. They operate on programs, and can be hacked. Hacked robots are not exciting adversaries. Brainwashed living things are not any different, except you know that they're living things and not simple robots.
And I don't ever recall using the word "pointless". I said it's not very compelling, and it isn't. You're making an awful lot of assumptions about me in order to "write me off" in your own mind as a ME1 fangirl.

I can't write people off as a Mass Effect fangirl or fanboy when we're arguing on a BioWare Mass Effect forum.

I can, however, tell people that their opinion of the entire game itself is biased because their favorite character didn't make it. BioWare could spend 20 years working on Mass Effect 2 and fill the retail box with winning lottery tickets and people would still say "But [insert character here] is not in this game! What the hell, BioWare?".

Also, the reasons that hostiles have for attacking you in both games are extremely superficial aside from Saren, the Collector General, and the Reapers.

Care to explain how the Mako returns to the Normandy or how the Citadel Rapid Transit gets to its location in Mass Effect 1?

- In ME1? I'm "warping" in ME1 from the MAKO. That's a transportation vehicle so, again, not that immersion-breaking. Feros - You walk back to the Normandy. Noveria - You walk back to the Peak 15 shuttle. Therum - The Normandy picks you up. Virmire - The Normandy evacuates you. UNC missions - You use the MAKO. Ilos - You use the Conduit.
How many of the ME2 missions are like? In the vast majority of them you just press the B button and magically warp to the galaxy map on the Normandy. That's immersion-breaking. Makes the game feel disjointed as hell.

The Mako has jets. I imagine the Normandy swoops down to collect it and the Mako jumps into the cargo hold. The Citadel rapid transit is obviously a "car", duh. You can clearly see the vehicle by the transit terminal.
Simple. But how do I get back to the Normandy from Mordin's clinic? I press B and magically warp there!

That's the problem, you imagine. You're adding content with your mind that was never there to begin with.

How does Mako return to the Normandy? LOADING ()
How does the Citadel Rapid Transit travel? LOADING ()
How does the Normandy travel between systems in the same Nebula? LOADING ()
How does the shuttle in Noveria get you back to the Normandy? LOADING ()

Immersion-breaking, indeed. Or you can dismiss the screens in both games are simply enjoy Mass Effect for what it is.

Many of the things you're complaining about are found in Mass Effect 1 as well. You could replace "ME2" with "ME1" in a lot of your arguments and they would still apply in some form.

Not really. There are differences, as I've pointed out and continue to point out.

And I'll continue to point out that these games are much more similar than you think.

Is there unfair criticism between the two games? Yes. But the difference is this: if any of the people defending Mass Effect 2 really thought Mass Effect 1 sucked that much, then we wouldn't have ever bought Mass Effect 2 the first place to compare the two.

Modifié par Ecael, 14 mai 2010 - 08:51 .

[Ecael]

Jack Package wrote...

Ecael wrote...

*snip*

They probably have Ashley or Kaidan signatures then.

Being that partial toward a specific character will introduce bias when comparing both games. I couldn't care less about what happens to any of the characters except Shepard and the Reapers in both games as long as BioWare writes in a good reason for what happens to them.

Sure, how those three specific characters were treated in ME2 isn't the best way, but you should at least try to understand why they did it.

In the case of Liara this was missed, which is the reason that Liara fans are that annoyed, Ecael.

Since I didn't clarify enough on that point, consider the plot flag possibilities that may or result JUST for Liara if Liara could join the squad in ME2:

MaleShepard:
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/cheated on Tali with Liara in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/cheated on Jack with Liara in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/cheated on Miranda with Liara in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/cheated on Kelly with Liara in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/broken up in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Tali in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Miranda in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Jack in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Tali in ME2, but Tali dies/made up in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Miranda in ME2, but Miranda dies/made up in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Jack in ME2, but Jack dies/made up in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2, but Kelly dies/made up in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Tali in ME2, but Tali dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Miranda in ME2, but Miranda dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Jack in ME2, but Jack dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2, but Kelly dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/cheated-on with new character 1 in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/cheated-on with new character 2 in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/broken up in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Tali in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Miranda in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Jack in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Tali in ME2, but Tali dies/made up in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Miranda in ME2, but Miranda dies/made up in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Jack in ME2, but Jack dies/made up in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2, but Kelly dies/made up in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Tali in ME2, but Tali dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Miranda in ME2, but Miranda dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Jack in ME2, but Jack dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2, but Kelly dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/cheated-on with new character 1 in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/cheated-on with new character 2 in ME3

FemaleShepard:
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/cheated on Garrus with Liara in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/cheated on Thane with Liara in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/cheated on Jacob with Liara in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/not romanced in ME2/cheated on Kelly with Liara in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/broken up in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Garrus in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Jacob in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Thane in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Garrus in ME2, but Garrus dies/made up in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Jacob in ME2, but Jacob dies/made up in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Thane in ME2, but Thane dies/made up in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2, but Kelly dies/made up in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Garrus in ME2, but Garrus dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Jacob in ME2, but Jacob dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Thane in ME2, but Thane dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2, but Kelly dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/cheated-on with new character 1 in ME3
-Liara not romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/cheated-on with new character 2 in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/broken up in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Garrus in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Jacob in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Thane in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Garrus in ME2, but Garrus dies/made up in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Jacob in ME2, but Jacob dies/made up in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Thane in ME2, but Thane dies/made up in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2, but Kelly dies/made up in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Garrus in ME2, but Garrus dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Jacob in ME2, but Jacob dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Thane in ME2, but Thane dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/still romanced but cheated-on with Kelly in ME2, but Kelly dies/not romanced in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/cheated-on with new character 1 in ME3
-Liara romanced in ME1/romanced in ME2/cheated-on with new character 2 in ME3

Now include the possibility that Liara could have a death flag if included in Mass Effect 2. THEN include how Ashley/Kaidan would interact if they were included as well, considering they have a death flag in Mass Effect 1.

You can see the absolute nightmare they set up by ever including any romances in the first game and connecting that game to the next.

The best and simplest way to have solved all this in Mass Effect 2 is to instead kill Liara and Ashley/Kaidan in the first Collector attack at the beginning of the game, and only resurrect Shepard. Thus, these plot flags won't get complicated and BioWare can introduce new romances without worry. I can only imagine the reaction that would result from that.

The best way to have solved all this in Mass Effect 1 was to never make any squadmates romanceable at all - only NPCs instead.

Modifié par Ecael, 14 mai 2010 - 08:46 .

[Nozybidaj]

Ecael wrote...
The best and simplest way to have solved all this....

The best and simplest way to have solved all this was actually to continue the story from ME1 and not introduce 7 brand new romances, but that is neither here nor there at this point.

[Ecael]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Ecael wrote...
The best and simplest way to have solved all this....

The best and simplest way to have solved all this was actually to continue the story from ME1 and not introduce 7 brand new romances, but that is neither here nor there at this point.

Then cue the relentless posting of people who will say "Why isn't he/she romanceable?!? Mass Effect 2 sucks!"

Simplest way: No romances in Mass Effect. At all.

[Zekebugs]

Ecael wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Ecael wrote...
The best and simplest way to have solved all this....

The best and simplest way to have solved all this was actually to continue the story from ME1 and not introduce 7 brand new romances, but that is neither here nor there at this point.

Then cue the relentless posting of people who will say "Why isn't he/she romanceable?!? Mass Effect 2 sucks!"

Simplest way: No romances in Mass Effect. At all.

That's what fanfictions are for, anyway. Then.... all romances are possible, they can even be custom made to individual tastes.
Though time for me to be a hypocrite. Here's to hoping that the Overlord can be in a love triangle with EDI and Joker.

Modifié par Zekebugs, 14 mai 2010 - 08:58 .

[darknoon5]

Hey people are distorting my original post. I never said ignore people with blue avatars-I said ignore people with blue avatars saying ME2 sucks, which is valid, as the number seems to be alarmingly high

Modifié par darknoon5, 14 mai 2010 - 09:00 .

[darknoon5]

Ecael wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Ecael wrote...
The best and simplest way to have solved all this....

The best and simplest way to have solved all this was actually to continue the story from ME1 and not introduce 7 brand new romances, but that is neither here nor there at this point.

Then cue the relentless posting of people who will say "Why isn't he/she romanceable?!? Mass Effect 2 sucks!"

Simplest way: No romances in Mass Effect. At all.

I dunno. Romances are important to me, as they let you get to know the character better and more in-depth. And just about every BioWare game I've played has romances. They wouldn't be the same witout them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those people who rave about romance packs and such, but I think it is a necessary area, which is why I can see why some of the Liara fans are angry. WHat I don't understand is why they hate the game because of it. (Read Liara's fan thread-some didn't even complete the game after they heard Liara didn't feature pre-dominantely in it:lol:)
I was upset Wrex wasn't a squadmate, and that I couldn't properly continue my romance with Ashley, but I looked at why they'd done this to Wrex and saw it was to add more to ME3. Ashley's handling annoyed me, but I hope they'll sort it out for ME3. It didn't stop me from thoroughly enjoying ME2, more so then ME1.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Ecael wrote...

And the items are all named numerals I through X, and Shepard can apparently carry 150 of them before having to omni-gel them. Again, you're playing a shooter, not a menu management game (of course, you're managing menus of weapons which you then use to shoot things).

Lots of "warping" in Mass Effect 1 as well. You're simply ignoring it.

In ME1 I was playing an RPG. In ME2 I was playing a shooter. That's the problem and the heart of my debate. I don't care if Shepard can carry 150 guns in her inventory, that's no better than magic weapon lockers that just happen to have models of all the guns you've found so far. In both games the system is unrealistic, but in ME1 I at least had control over it. ME2 simply got rid of it without making it better.

And I've counted for all the "warping" in ME1. It's all done realistically with a mode of transportation. ME2 simply has a magic B button. ME1 had a lot more freedom. ME2 is on rails. That's an issue. ME2 is disjointed, sloppy, and jarring where ME1 was smooth.

Then don't go to McDonalds? There are many restaurants out there, and you could even cook your own game meal if you wanted to.

LMAO , oyu completely missed my point. XD
You just threw back the exact same argument you used before only using my counter-example.

Again, I liked ME1. I want to finish the trilogy. Telling me "not to play it" is not an argument that counters my point. It's a deflection. I'm here in the hopes that BioWare won't make ME3 as bad as ME2. I'm voicing my opinion and debating my reasons.

If I used your logic I would simply tell you "If you don't like my reasons for not liking ME2 then don't read my posts!! :o" But that would be stupid, as it accomplishes nothing. I think people here are just whining about hearing any negativity. People complaining about actual features is much better imo than all these people who are randomly saying "OMG this sounds awesome!!" despite the fact that they've done this 5+ times already.

I can't write people off as a Mass Effect fangirl or fanboy when we're arguing on a BioWare Mass Effect forum.

I can, however, tell people that their opinion of the entire game itself is biased because their favorite character didn't make it. BioWare could spend 20 years working on Mass Effect 2 and fill the retail box with winning lottery tickets and people would still say "But [insert character here] is not in this game! What the hell, BioWare?".

Also, the reasons that hostiles have for attacking you in both games are extremely superficial aside from Saren, the Collector General, and the Reapers.

My favorite character is Kelly. How does this support your argument with me? You aren't arguing with "the Liara fanbase" here. You're arguing with me. None of this passage of yours is applicable to me other than the last line about reasons for attacking.
And I will say to that: Cops fighting you because you killed their comrades or are interfering with their profiteering is better than "hijacked robot". I never said ME1 enemies had super-awesome reasons for fighting you; I said that hijacked robots are not compelling.

That's the problem, you imagine. You're adding content with your mind that was never there to begin with.

How does Mako return to the Normandy? LOADING ()
How does the Citadel Rapid Transit travel? LOADING ()
How does the Normandy travel between systems in the same Nebula? LOADING ()
How does the shuttle in Noveria get you back to the Normandy? LOADING ()

Immersion-breaking, indeed. Or you can dismiss the screens in both games are simply enjoy Mass Effect for what it is.

I'm not adding content; I'm making logical deductions. I'm in a vehicle with jets and I was dropped off by a spaceship. I don't need to specifically see the transportation because the transportation is implied. In ME2 there aren't those implications. There aren't any details. You're just standing in Mordin's clinic with a big pop-up saying PRESS B!! And even if you want to explore the area some more you're prohibited from doing so. You're forced into warping and you're forced to see the MISSION COMPLETE & OMG U GOT 2000 IRIDIUM!!! screen. It's jarring, immersion-breaking, and there are absolutely zero in-game implications of how you're warping.

And honestly, traveling on a ship through a relay, or ina  car across the Citadel, or in the Mako to the Normandy, or in a shuttle across Noveria is much better than warping from an encolsed office space. It's about presentation.

And I'll continue to point out that these games are much more similar than you think.

Is there unfair criticism between the two games? Yes. But the difference is this: if any of the people defending Mass Effect 2 really thought Mass Effect 1 sucked that much, then we wouldn't have ever bought Mass Effect 2 the first place to compare the two.

I never said the games are super-dramatically different. But they are clearly different, and many of those differences are disliked by me and many others. Again you seem to miss the point.

[CmdrTimBT]

darknoon5 wrote...

Hey people are distorting my original post. I never said ignore people with blue avatars-I said ignore people with blue avatars saying ME2 sucks, which is valid, as the number seems to be alarmingly high

I don't understand why so many Liara fans think ME2 sucked just because their favourite character was changed. Liara is my favourite character (with a couple characters tied for my second favourite), but I don't hate them for changing her. Bioware is actually my favourite gaming company, I wouldn't hate a company and start bashing a game and saying it sucks just because they changed a character. That's just childish behaviour. Can you be upset and confused? Yes, but don't turn that into full blown hatred for a company or game. Offer constrictive critism, not angry posts that end up spamming a topic. Maybe that way the devs will pay more attention to the posts instead of dismissing them as spam.

*on
topic* Can't wait for Overlord. It sounds pretty cool and it'll be nice
to have a story based DLC. Hopefully there are more like it to come.

[fortunesque]

People are oversimplifying the reasons why people don't like ME2 half as much as they enjoyed ME1. It's not just the poor treatment of the ME1 LIs that has people saying they didn't like ME2. It's a part of it, sure, but it isn't a large part of it. There are other reasons as well.

Assuming that ME1 LI fans that didn't like the second game do because their favorite character was cameoed is extremely short-sighted.

Modifié par fortunesque, 14 mai 2010 - 09:13 .