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[Carmen_Willow]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

OP, as a preface question, have you ever played the Morrigan romance?

Besides what the poster said up above about the tone with which the discussions with Morrigan have, i.e. that she is leaving because she feels she has to (IMO in large part because she feels she needs to protect the Warden), there is also the fact that she gives you a ring which in theory allows you to find her and vice versa.  So I read her saying "don't follow" as being heavily tinged with "but I secretly want you to."  She knows when she gives you this ring that she's going to do the ritual.  Why would she do such a thing if she really intended never to see him again or know anything about him?
 

I have played the Morrigan romance.  I see Morrigan as a woman who was physically and emotionally abused  as a child who, as a result, will always choose safety (survival and power = safety for her) over love.  Loving someone is not safe -- and Morrigan simply doesn't have the emotional ability to handle that.  She has made her choice "survival has meaning; power has meaning" and will probably stick by it. Even without the god/demon baby, she probably couldn't handle the relationship.  Would she be conflicted?  Oh yes, but then you could end up in a relationship where she would push you away only to haul you back in again.   I don't think she would change, because her need to find safety is too deeply ingrained in her.  Love doesn't alway conquer all.  It was the reason I would not have followed her. I recognized that she needed something a relationship could not give her (unless she could go back to childhood and have a normal mother).






*Is waiting for KoP to see this thread* lmao

I agree with you, actually during her whole romance conversation she can't make up her mind.  She wants to but she's never experienced a real relationship before.
As far as why she gives the ring, I don't think it really has anything to do with the ritual, I think it's based more on her feelings but then I didn't get the ring until after her n I had the tent scene and she was at +93 approval.  I believe she was already at love when I got the ring

As for the OP, have you actually played Morrigan's romance?  There's a lot more to Morrigan then whats on the surface.  Here's a couple of Morrigan's comments about the relationship and love.

Morrigan:  I feel anxious when I look upon you.  I dislike this sense of dependency.  Tis a weakness I abhor.  If this is "love" I wish to ascertain that you do not feel the same.

PC: And if I do love you?

Morrigan:  Then we are both fools, and we need to do something immediately.

Morrigan:  I have allowed myself to become... too close.  This is a weakness, for us both.

PC:  Love is not a weakness.

Conversation you have later when she refuses to join you in your tent.
Morrigan:  I warned you, did I not?  Told you that this is a weakness that was driving me mad.  And yet you insisted.

PC:  Why are you so frightened of this?

Morrigan:  Tis all so... unexpected.  I have no experience with any of it.

Morrigan:  And yet I find myself wanting it.  Hungering for it.  For you.

Morrigan:  That is not right, is it?  That is not how a normal woman acts?  I can see it in your eyes.

Morrigan:  Release me.  Tell me that you wish to end this.  Make me believe you and I... will be grateful.


This woman has NO CLUE about love, has no clue about real feeling's.  And when she does start getting them she literally freaks out.  Play her romance, and see deeper down then the person she show's to the world.  Morrigan cares but she's scared to death of it because she doesn't know how to handle it.  She's never seen love, experienced it, been shown love.  Your job is to teach her, show her, help her experience these feelings and this.  When she says her goodbye at the gate it will have a much deeper meaning and I truly think she wants the male PC to come after her especially if your still in the in-love stage.

[Master Shiori]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

I have played the Morrigan romance.  I see Morrigan as a woman who was physically and emotionally abused  as a child who, as a result, will always choose safety (survival and power = safety for her) over love.  Loving someone is not safe -- and Morrigan simply doesn't have the emotional ability to handle that.  She has made her choice "survival has meaning; power has meaning" and will probably stick by it. Even without the god/demon baby, she probably couldn't handle the relationship.  Would she be conflicted?  Oh yes, but then you could end up in a relationship where she would push you away only to haul you back in again.   I don't think she would change, because her need to find safety is too deeply ingrained in her.  Love doesn't alway conquer all.  It was the reason I would not have followed her. I recognized that she needed something a relationship could not give her (unless she could go back to childhood and have a normal mother).

Not sure if you ever played Baldur's Gate 2 but there was a love interest there called Viconia who was exactly as you described.

The realtionship was basicaly about her and pc coming together one moment only to have Viconia push him away out of fear.

But she did eventualy come to terms with her fear of being in love and accepted the pc as her "comfort zone", as someone who would accept her and love her despite everything.

I think Morrigan would eventualy accept her relationship with the Warden and consider his unconditional love and protection as an alternative to survival and power that Flemeth had taught her.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 13 mai 2010 - 09:11 .

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

Not sure if you ever played Baldur's Gate 2 but there was a love interest there called Viconia who was exactly as you described.

The realtionship was basicaly about her and pc coming together one moment only to have Viconia push him away out of fear.

But she did eventualy come to terms with her fear of being in love and accepted the pc as her "comfort zone", as someone who would accept her and love her despite everything.

I think Morrigan would eventualy accept her relationship with the Warden and consider his unconditional love and protection as an alternative to survival and power that Flemeth had taught her.

And surprise, surprise! Gaider wrote Viconia too....

[Der Kirk]

Plus the ring ending kind of makes you feel bad for her. Apparently, you only feel anything through the ring once, and all that you feel is sadness/ regret. It seems like a good enough reason for my warden to go after her.

[Thor Rand Al]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

I have played the Morrigan romance.  I see Morrigan as a woman who was physically and emotionally abused  as a child who, as a result, will always choose safety (survival and power = safety for her) over love.  Loving someone is not safe -- and Morrigan simply doesn't have the emotional ability to handle that.  She has made her choice "survival has meaning; power has meaning" and will probably stick by it. Even without the god/demon baby, she probably couldn't handle the relationship.  Would she be conflicted?  Oh yes, but then you could end up in a relationship where she would push you away only to haul you back in again.   I don't think she would change, because her need to find safety is too deeply ingrained in her.  Love doesn't alway conquer all.  It was the reason I would not have followed her. I recognized that she needed something a relationship could not give her (unless she could go back to childhood and have a normal mother).

How do you know if she'll choose survival and power over love?  She's never experienced love, she's conflicted with the feeling.  If you ask her if she wants to end it she say's "Yes. No.  I do, and yet... I cannot."
Again I have to say she's never experienced these emotions before, so how do you know what she will do.  And to top it all off here she is going to have the male PC's baby who she fell in love with, that right there will be a constant reminder of the person she loved, the person she left behind. 
Oh I'm not saying if the male PC does find her that it's going to be easy, it's going to be hell and no love doesn't always conquer all but the fact that LOVE has been shown to Morrigan does give the male PC a chance even if it is going to be a stormy and rocky ride. It also gives Morrigan a realization there's more to the world then what dear old Flemeth taught her.
Morrigan is stubborn and bullheaded enough if she wants something like a relationship with male pc then she'll make it work, even though it may end up not working.
Being a woman myself I kind of feel for Morrigan and the way she was raised, my heart does go out to her.  I'm really interested in seeing where the dev's take this because it will be interesting, especially if they decide to expand more on Morrigan and the male PC relationship.  And I hope they do.

[Axekix]

Master Shiori wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Before I proceed to answer you question I would like to ask a few questions to the women that romanced Alistair.

How many of you reloaded the landsmeet because you initially thought it would be a cool idea to have Loghain in your party? How many of you jumped back to the DR when you saw Riordan fall from the archdemon? And how many of you started a whole new playthrough as a Human Noble because you found out you can marry your favorite character?

Don't answer. I know the majority reloaded, and those who didn't, started a new game anyway. You didn't just say "meh" and then give up. That's right, you didn't let go. You kept trying and in the end you got what you wanted.

There are many reasonble excuses why would anyone follow her and refuse to give up. If you're  roleplaying a "Grey Warden to the bone" character that didn't romance her you will not let her go for the same reason Duncan didn't let Jory go. A friend of hers may feel betrayed or may worry about her safety to the point where he/she decides to break the promise.

For players that romanced her(which I assume is what you are interested in) I would use the key word hope. I was one of the few players that roleplayed a PC that tried to let her go but in the end he couldn't. I told Alistair I wouldn't bother and yet my Awakening ending said that the Grey Warden Commander ended up in Orlais looking for a dark haired sorceress. It wasn't my choice but there you have it. So, there is hope after all(there isn't really but just humour me here). My PC is a hopeless romantic(or an idiot, Alistair still owes me a boon, I should've stayed in Denerim).

He took a fireball in the face and then got chewed by a high-dragon-abomination in order to protect the woman he loves. He got back to camp and made a promise to Morrigan that he will always protect her.

And speaking of that promise, lets not forget the whole "Flemeth body-snatching" tale. If your character truly loves her, would he really let her and his child at the mercy of Flemeth? I think not.

A simple "don't follow me" without any explanation won't stop him. Flemeth didn't stop him, the archdemon didn't stop him.

After 60+ hours of putting your heart into the game you feel the need to get the most of it and it's characters. Even if you try to let go, you just can't. She owes my Warden a lot of answers, and they better be good ones. The epilogue hints some sort of continuation. In my opininon it is a false hope but I'm probably the only one who thinks this way. Most Morrigan fans are very optimistic for some reason.

I hated that ending to be honest, something I mentioned it countless times on these forums. I think I desrved better than that(and everyone else in my shoes really). I would rather not play the same ending again. So... the opinion of someone who hates her ending and yet decided not to let go must mean something... right?

If the writers ever give me the chance to wrap up that storyline then I'll take it. Whether it's tragedy, death or simply a happily ever after, I'll take it.

Blademaster summed up my thought quite nicely.

I'll just add another important reason why Morrigan fans want to see a reunion between her and the Warden.

Unlike those who romanced Alistair, Leliana or Zevran, we never had a choice to determine how our romance will end.
No matter how hard the whole dark ritual might have been for Alistair fans, for us it came down to "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Imagine if you were faced with a choice that results in your lover leaving regardless of what you decide. Now imagine if you can't even ask a simple question like "why?".

For Morrigan fans roleplaying and choice had meaning until the dark ritual. There we felt like the writers took us for a ride where all we could do was watch in horror as the one thing we cared about was taken from us and we didn't even have a choice in the matter.

Everyone who didn't have to experience that should put themselves in our shoes and put Alistair/Leliana/Zevran in Morrigan's place and then say what they'd do if that was the ending to their romance.

I think we can all guess what the answer would be.

These two posts sum it up quite nicely.  Nothing more to add really.

[Raiil]

Master Shiori wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

I have played the Morrigan romance.  I see Morrigan as a woman who was physically and emotionally abused  as a child who, as a result, will always choose safety (survival and power = safety for her) over love.  Loving someone is not safe -- and Morrigan simply doesn't have the emotional ability to handle that.  She has made her choice "survival has meaning; power has meaning" and will probably stick by it. Even without the god/demon baby, she probably couldn't handle the relationship.  Would she be conflicted?  Oh yes, but then you could end up in a relationship where she would push you away only to haul you back in again.   I don't think she would change, because her need to find safety is too deeply ingrained in her.  Love doesn't alway conquer all.  It was the reason I would not have followed her. I recognized that she needed something a relationship could not give her (unless she could go back to childhood and have a normal mother).

Not sure if you ever played Baldur's Gate 2 but there was a love interest there called Viconia who was exactly as you described.

The realtionship was basicaly about her and pc coming together one moment only to have Viconia push him away out of fear.

But she did eventualy come to terms with her fear of being in love and accepted the pc as her "comfort zone", as someone who would accept her and love her despite everything.

I think Morrigan would eventualy accept her relationship with the Warden and consider his unconditional love and protection as an alternative to survival and power that Flemeth had taught her.

I would argue that she would see his unconditional love and protection as an added layer to her survival and power. I mean, Morrigan is already immensely powerful as the game goes on, but the Warden is basically a juggernaut. What forces of nature could possibly hope to stop them?

[Tirigon]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

Please help me understand why you would pursue her in light of that. (Aside from the fact that she''s "smokin hot" as one poster put it.)  Is there a legitimate reason to break your word?

What about killing the damned child, thus saving the world from a new mad god who would only bring incredible suffering to everyone?

Modifié par Tirigon, 13 mai 2010 - 09:56 .

[Axekix]

Tirigon wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

Please help me understand why you would pursue her in light of that. (Aside from the fact that she''s "smokin hot" as one poster put it.)  Is there a legitimate reason to break your word?

What about killing the damned child, thus saving the world from a new mad god who would only bring incredible suffering to everyone?

Umm.. if that was your concern it wouldn't make sense to do the DR in the first place.

[blademaster7]

Valentia X wrote...

I would argue that she would see his unconditional love and protection as an added layer to her survival and power. I mean, Morrigan is already immensely powerful as the game goes on, but the Warden is basically a juggernaut. What forces of nature could possibly hope to stop them?

The plot hammer of doom can stop them.

Axekix wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Carmen_Willow
wrote...

Please help me understand why you would pursue her in
light of that. (Aside from the fact that she''s "smokin hot" as one
poster put it.)  Is there a legitimate reason to break your word?

What
about killing the damned child, thus saving the world from a new mad
god who would only bring incredible suffering to everyone?

Umm..
if that was your concern it wouldn't make sense to do the DR in the
first place.

Not to mention that you are roleplaying a character that brings a child into the world in order to save his sorry ass and then goes out and kills it.

I couldn't even bring my self to kill Connor... how could I kill a child that is the son/daughter of my character? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

Demon or no... it's disturbing.

Modifié par blademaster7, 13 mai 2010 - 10:06 .

[Der Kirk]

Tirigon wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

Please help me understand why you would pursue her in light of that. (Aside from the fact that she''s "smokin hot" as one poster put it.)  Is there a legitimate reason to break your word?

What about killing the damned child, thus saving the world from a new mad god who would only bring incredible suffering to everyone?

Naw that wouldn't happen. Morrigan said the soul would be uncorrupted. She wouldnt lie to my warden right?  ... Right? ... some reassurance please...

[Tirigon]

Axekix wrote...

Umm.. if that was your concern it wouldn't make sense to do the DR in the first place.

Well not really. You can of course RP differently, but my Warden did the Dark Ritual to marry Alistair and rule Ferelden - the child was not wanted but a necessary evil that might need to get taken care of.

[Axekix]

blademaster7 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

I would argue that she would see his unconditional love and protection as an added layer to her survival and power. I mean, Morrigan is already immensely powerful as the game goes on, but the Warden is basically a juggernaut. What forces of nature could possibly hope to stop them?

The plot hammer of doom can stop them.

Axekix wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Carmen_Willow
wrote...

Please help me understand why you would pursue her in
light of that. (Aside from the fact that she''s "smokin hot" as one
poster put it.)  Is there a legitimate reason to break your word?

What
about killing the damned child, thus saving the world from a new mad
god who would only bring incredible suffering to everyone?

Umm..
if that was your concern it wouldn't make sense to do the DR in the
first place.

Not to mention that you are roleplaying a character that brings a child into the world in order to save his sorry ass and then goes out and kills it.

I couldn't even bring my self to kill Connor... how could I kill a child that is the son/daughter of my character? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

Demon or no... it's disturbing.

Well aside from the whole baby killing issue (yeah, disturbing) would killing it even work? 

The only way to destroy the God soul is by having it try to posses a Warden when it's slain.  Wouldn't killing the child essentially be sacrificing yourself all over again?  Seems pointless.

Modifié par Axekix, 13 mai 2010 - 10:16 .

[Tirigon]

blademaster7 wrote...

I couldn't even bring my self to kill Connor... how could I kill a child that is the son/daughter of my character? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

Demon or no... it's disturbing.

Well if it´s your warden´s child it´s differently, even more so if your Warden loves Morrigan, but I only do the Dark Ritual if my warden really, REALLY likes Alistair AND is happy with his life. Otherwise, there is a warden ready to die.

[Tirigon]

Axekix wrote...

The only way to destroy the God soul is by having it try to posses a Warden when it's slain.  Wouldn't killing the child essentially be sacrificing yourself all over again?  Seems pointless.

Hmm that´s a good point. But, as someone said (or should, if it hasn´t been said already):

"First let´s kill everything in our way, we can worry about the details when we´re finished with that!"

[KnightofPhoenix]

Excellent answers from many people here, specifically blademaster, so I won't be redundant. My canon PC is not going after her immediately, he is too busy being King Consort, however he does hope to see her again and if he could find her, he definately would try.

The main thing that made him want to follow her is the regret and sorrow he felt via the ring. It's almost as if Morrigan was calling out for him (that's how he interprets it at least). That's what would make him search for her.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 mai 2010 - 10:41 .

[Vicious]

She won't tell you what she plans because it's none of your f--ing business. She owes the player nothing, especially since as DaveG's comic indicates, if the Warden was not around then Morrigan would ask Alistair instead, and he accepts.



In that light, the light of I MUST KNOW WHAT SHE DIDNT WANT TO TELL ME! is what smells of 'stalker.'



She didn't tell you because you don't need to know.



And that sounds just like Morrigan.

[Thor Rand Al]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Excellent answers from many people here, specifically blademaster, so I won't be redundant. My canon PC is not going after her immediately, he is too busy being King Consort, however he does hope to see her again and if he could find her, he definately would try.

The main thing that made him want to follow her is the regret and sorrow he felt via the ring. It's almost as if Morrigan was calling out for him (that's how he interprets it at least). That's what would make him search for her.

First time I ever played DA n romanced Morrigan that right there was the reason why my male wanted to go after Morrigan, because that's what he interpreted from the ring. 

Like I said a long time ago in a different post, the feeling I got from the ring and her goodbye at the gate is she wants you to go after her.  You can hear the regret, guilt and sorrow in her voice and see it in her face if you choose certain dialogue lines with her.

[tom2504]

Vicious wrote...

She won't tell you what she plans because it's none of your f--ing business. She owes the player nothing, especially since as DaveG's comic indicates, if the Warden was not around then Morrigan would ask Alistair instead, and he accepts.

In that light, the light of I MUST KNOW WHAT SHE DIDNT WANT TO TELL ME! is what smells of 'stalker.'

She didn't tell you because you don't need to know.

And that sounds just like Morrigan.

How the heck can you state that as if it would be true? Alistair and Morrigan hated eachother - and if anything I'd have guessed Alistair would rather die with honor rather than risk an abomination child upon the World. Consider that Alistair is completely objective if you ask him to do the DR, it takes some convincing, even if you're very good friends.

And the comic is irrelevant, we're talking about the actual game and what happens in it, if your Warden wasn't around in the actual game then everything could (and most probably would) have been different, perhaps Alistair and the 2 Warden recruits die in the Kocari wilds before reaching the old Warden tower? It's easy to theorycraft but why don't we stick with the ACTUAL storyline that's happened so far eh?

And you seem to be pretty commited to this whole 'Stalker' idea, how can chasing after your love and son/daughter be classified as stalking? Morrigan is pushed into joining you to stop the blight by Flemeth, she was objective about going, yet you still kill Flemeth to protect her, Find the duplicate mirror that she told you she had when she was a child, Got her the Grimoire - how can you say she owes the Warden nothing? Granted the last 2 would be a materialistic way of looking at things but I think my point gets across.

Modifié par tom2504, 13 mai 2010 - 11:14 .

[Brockololly]

Vicious wrote...

She won't tell you what she plans because it's none of your f--ing business. She owes the player nothing, especially since as DaveG's comic indicates, if the Warden was not around then Morrigan would ask Alistair instead, and he accepts.

Ummm... I'm assuming you're referring to Aimo's comic? The Warden does indeed still exist there its just Aimo's female dwarven noble warden.

[old book]

People who love one another, or loved one another, may not "owe" eachother anything. Basic respect and kindness maybe, depending on how things went. Morrigan loved your character (if you did the romance), and he loved her (if you played it that way). They saw combat together. They saved eachother's lives. They risked their lives together and most likely for eachother. Your character (in most play throughs) killed for Morrigan. To say they owe nothing to eachother after that, well, I disagree. The romance may be over, but they still shared too much to say that they owe nothing to eachother. Additionally, they share a child. That link means something to most people. At the least, your character "owes" something to his child if "owe" means anything.

[Chuvvy]

blademaster7 wrote...
I told Alistair I wouldn't bother and yet my Awakening ending said that the Grey Warden Commander ended up in Orlais looking for a dark haired sorceress. It wasn't my choice but there you have it.

That happened to you to? Weird. I've also gotten some that say I rommanced Lelianna when I didn't romance anyone.

Modifié par Slidell505, 14 mai 2010 - 12:45 .

[Der Kirk]

Slidell505 wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...
I told Alistair I wouldn't bother and yet my Awakening ending said that the Grey Warden Commander ended up in Orlais looking for a dark haired sorceress. It wasn't my choice but there you have it.

That happened to you to? Weird. I've also gotten some that say I rommanced Lelianna when I didn't romance anyone.

I heard awakening is really buggy... that is the only thing that keeps me from getting it.

[Swoo]

Slidell505 wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...
I told Alistair I wouldn't bother and yet my Awakening ending said that the Grey Warden Commander ended up in Orlais looking for a dark haired sorceress. It wasn't my choice but there you have it.

That happened to you to? Weird. I've also gotten some that say I rommanced Lelianna when I didn't romance anyone.

If you use the 'Does the Hero get the girl' line during your victory lap at the end of DA:O, you get put into a relationship with her. I said it thinking I was talking about Morrigan since I'd made it clear I was on my way out the door and heading to some mountains, I learnt otherwise at the end of DA:A.

[sylvanaerie]

Swoo wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...
I told Alistair I wouldn't bother and yet my Awakening ending said that the Grey Warden Commander ended up in Orlais looking for a dark haired sorceress. It wasn't my choice but there you have it.

That happened to you to? Weird. I've also gotten some that say I rommanced Lelianna when I didn't romance anyone.

If you use the 'Does the Hero get the girl' line during your victory lap at the end of DA:O, you get put into a relationship with her. I said it thinking I was talking about Morrigan since I'd made it clear I was on my way out the door and heading to some mountains, I learnt otherwise at the end of DA:A.

LOL Leliana ninja love strikes again...