391 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

TheMufflon wrote...


My purpose in playing Pokémon was to have fun, my purpose in playing Tetris is having fun.

Yes but the purpose in game is to defeat the bad guys and train your pokemon. I play ME to have fun that doesn't mean the storyline no longer exists.

[TheMufflon]

Ryzaki wrote...

Roleplaying games are about playing a role not influencing the story.

Exactly. But how can you play a role without influencing the story?

[Ryzaki]

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Roleplaying games are about playing a role not influencing the story.

Exactly. But how can you play a role without influencing the story?

The same way an actor reads their lines without improvising. They're still playing a part. Also you do control your character during combat, you control their development so yes you do play a role. You're playing the character the game wants tyou to play if you don't like that that's on you but that doesn't mean you're not playing a role.

EDIT: Phoenix wright series allows you to influence endings and its an adventure game. Not an RPG. Influencing the ending does not an RPG make.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 mai 2010 - 06:08 .

[TheMufflon]

Ryzaki wrote...

The same way an actor reads their lines without improvising. They're still playing a part. Also you do control your character during combat, you control their development so yes you do play a role. You're playing the character the game wants tyou to play if you don't like that that's on you but that doesn't mean you're not playing a role.

By what defenition of character? How can a character exist if it is not as part of a narrative? How can statitics be part of a narrative if they do not affect it? How can gameplay be part of the narrative if it does not affect it?

Like I said: When I'm playing Halo I'm not playing Master Chief, I'm playing Halo and shooting aliens. The only role I'm playing is the role of me playing Halo.

[Sleepicub09]

Ryzaki wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Roleplaying games are about playing a role not influencing the story.

Exactly. But how can you play a role without influencing the story?

The same way an actor reads their lines without improvising. They're still playing a part. Also you do control your character during combat, you control their development so yes you do play a role. You're playing the character the game wants tyou to play if you don't like that that's on you but that doesn't mean you're not playing a role.

EDIT: Phoenix wright series allows you to influence endings and its an adventure game. Not an RPG. Influencing the ending does not an RPG make.

so does forced unleashed, but I have to disagree with your definition because the way you explain it every single game is an rpg

[TheMufflon]

Ryzaki wrote...

EDIT: Phoenix wright series allows you to influence endings and its an adventure game. Not an RPG. Influencing the ending does not an RPG make.

According to your earlier posts Phoenix Wright would be an RPG...

[Ryzaki]

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The same way an actor reads their lines without improvising. They're still playing a part. Also you do control your character during combat, you control their development so yes you do play a role. You're playing the character the game wants tyou to play if you don't like that that's on you but that doesn't mean you're not playing a role.

By what defenition of character? How can a character exist if it is not as part of a narrative? How can statitics be part of a narrative if they do not affect it? How can gameplay be part of the narrative if it does not affect it?

Like I said: When I'm playing Halo I'm not playing Master Chief, I'm playing Halo and shooting aliens. The only role I'm playing is the role of me playing Halo.

Are you telling me you seriously played Pokemon and don't understand how the PC fits into the narrative?

You don't see how raising your pokemon fits into the narrative?

Seriously? 

/shakes head.

None of it is getting through and frankly me repeating myself is worthless. So whatever you keep your ideas of what an RPG is and I'll keep mine.

Seems the gamer world in general disagrees with both of us for the most part anyways.

[Ryzaki]

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

EDIT: Phoenix wright series allows you to influence endings and its an adventure game. Not an RPG. Influencing the ending does not an RPG make.

According to your earlier posts Phoenix Wright would be an RPG...

*I'd* find it to be an RPG. The general gaming public does not. You probably would...not. Due to the lack of dialogue options.

[TheMufflon]

Ryzaki wrote...

None of it is getting through and frankly me repeating myself is worthless.

Then please answer the questions I posed. Indulge me, I'm curious.

[Ryzaki]

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Roleplaying games are about playing a role not influencing the story.

Exactly. But how can you play a role without influencing the story?

The same way an actor reads their lines without improvising. They're still playing a part. Also you do control your character during combat, you control their development so yes you do play a role. You're playing the character the game wants tyou to play if you don't like that that's on you but that doesn't mean you're not playing a role.

EDIT: Phoenix wright series allows you to influence endings and its an adventure game. Not an RPG. Influencing the ending does not an RPG make.

so does forced unleashed, but I have to disagree with your definition because the way you explain it every single game is an rpg

Every single game is *not* an RPG. Every single game where you play a character with a set or not set role who affects the narrative you're playing an RPG. That maybe a majority but its not everything.

[Ryzaki]

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

None of it is getting through and frankly me repeating myself is worthless.

Then please answer the questions I posed. Indulge me, I'm curious.

I answered the questions again and agian you just refuse the answer.

[TheMufflon]

Ryzaki wrote...

Due to the lack of dialogue options.

As I have repeated: It has nothing to do with the dialogue options themselves.

Why do I even bother? You're obviously not reading my posts.

[TheMufflon]

Ryzaki wrote...

I answered the questions again and agian you just refuse the answer.

These were the questions I was refering to

How can a character exist if it is not as part of a narrative? How can statitics be part of a narrative if they do not affect it? How can gameplay be part of the narrative if it does not affect it?

All you did was comment on the example.

Modifié par TheMufflon, 15 mai 2010 - 06:18 .

[Sleepicub09]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Roleplaying games are about playing a role not influencing the story.

Exactly. But how can you play a role without influencing the story?

The same way an actor reads their lines without improvising. They're still playing a part. Also you do control your character during combat, you control their development so yes you do play a role. You're playing the character the game wants tyou to play if you don't like that that's on you but that doesn't mean you're not playing a role.

EDIT: Phoenix wright series allows you to influence endings and its an adventure game. Not an RPG. Influencing the ending does not an RPG make.

so does forced unleashed, but I have to disagree with your definition because the way you explain it every single game is an rpg

Every single game is *not* an RPG. Every single game where you play a character with a set or not set role who affects the narrative you're playing an RPG. That maybe a majority but its not everything.

hey you described it like that not me. as I said before an rpg is an undefineable genre.

[Ryzaki]

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Due to the lack of dialogue options.

As I have repeated: It has nothing to do with the dialogue options themselves.

Why do I even bother? You're obviously not reading my posts.

I could say the same.

You said said influencing the story right?  So does that require dialogue options to you? Could someone play a fully defined character until the very end and if they can change the ending is that game a CRPG to you?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 mai 2010 - 06:19 .

[Ryzaki]

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Roleplaying games are about playing a role not influencing the story.

Exactly. But how can you play a role without influencing the story?

The same way an actor reads their lines without improvising. They're still playing a part. Also you do control your character during combat, you control their development so yes you do play a role. You're playing the character the game wants tyou to play if you don't like that that's on you but that doesn't mean you're not playing a role.

EDIT: Phoenix wright series allows you to influence endings and its an adventure game. Not an RPG. Influencing the ending does not an RPG make.

so does forced unleashed, but I have to disagree with your definition because the way you explain it every single game is an rpg

Every single game is *not* an RPG. Every single game where you play a character with a set or not set role who affects the narrative you're playing an RPG. That maybe a majority but its not everything.

hey you described it like that not me. as I said before an rpg is an undefineable genre.

Eh. I don't think its truly undefinable. Maybe very broad. But not undefinable. That said that's just my opinion.

Though gaming media at large seems to think that if it focuses on storyline and has character development sometimes in the form of stats its an RPG.

[Sleepicub09]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Roleplaying games are about playing a role not influencing the story.

Exactly. But how can you play a role without influencing the story?

The same way an actor reads their lines without improvising. They're still playing a part. Also you do control your character during combat, you control their development so yes you do play a role. You're playing the character the game wants tyou to play if you don't like that that's on you but that doesn't mean you're not playing a role.

EDIT: Phoenix wright series allows you to influence endings and its an adventure game. Not an RPG. Influencing the ending does not an RPG make.

so does forced unleashed, but I have to disagree with your definition because the way you explain it every single game is an rpg

Every single game is *not* an RPG. Every single game where you play a character with a set or not set role who affects the narrative you're playing an RPG. That maybe a majority but its not everything.

hey you described it like that not me. as I said before an rpg is an undefineable genre.

Eh. I don't think its truly undefinable. Maybe very broad. But not undefinable. That said that's just my opinion.

Though gaming media at large seems to think that if it focuses on storyline and has character development sometimes in the form of stats its an RPG.

well if thats the case smackdown vs raw is an rpg 

[Ryzaki]

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Roleplaying games are about playing a role not influencing the story.

Exactly. But how can you play a role without influencing the story?

The same way an actor reads their lines without improvising. They're still playing a part. Also you do control your character during combat, you control their development so yes you do play a role. You're playing the character the game wants tyou to play if you don't like that that's on you but that doesn't mean you're not playing a role.

EDIT: Phoenix wright series allows you to influence endings and its an adventure game. Not an RPG. Influencing the ending does not an RPG make.

so does forced unleashed, but I have to disagree with your definition because the way you explain it every single game is an rpg

Every single game is *not* an RPG. Every single game where you play a character with a set or not set role who affects the narrative you're playing an RPG. That maybe a majority but its not everything.

hey you described it like that not me. as I said before an rpg is an undefineable genre.

Eh. I don't think its truly undefinable. Maybe very broad. But not undefinable. That said that's just my opinion.

Though gaming media at large seems to think that if it focuses on storyline and has character development sometimes in the form of stats its an RPG.

well if thats the case smackdown vs raw is an rpg 

Smackdown vs Raw focuses on storyline? Really. Never played it. Though I figure it would be labeled a wrestling game due to the fact that that's the main focus...at least I'm pretty sure it is.

I personally would find it to be a RPG if there was a story to be found (that said I'm not overly fond of roleplaying actual people bugs me).

Edit: Read the article.

That sounds so awesome and yes those stories could be RPGs if it focued on the story rather than the beating each others lights out.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 mai 2010 - 06:26 .

[TheMufflon]

Ryzaki wrote...
You said said influencing the story right?

Right.

So does that require dialogue options to you?

No

Could someone play a
fully defined character until the very end and if they can change the
ending is that game a CRPG to you?

Only if the played was allowed to choose how the character is defined within the story of the game (if one is being provided with a set character with a set background doesn't matter).

[Sleepicub09]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Roleplaying games are about playing a role not influencing the story.

Exactly. But how can you play a role without influencing the story?

The same way an actor reads their lines without improvising. They're still playing a part. Also you do control your character during combat, you control their development so yes you do play a role. You're playing the character the game wants tyou to play if you don't like that that's on you but that doesn't mean you're not playing a role.

EDIT: Phoenix wright series allows you to influence endings and its an adventure game. Not an RPG. Influencing the ending does not an RPG make.

so does forced unleashed, but I have to disagree with your definition because the way you explain it every single game is an rpg

Every single game is *not* an RPG. Every single game where you play a character with a set or not set role who affects the narrative you're playing an RPG. That maybe a majority but its not everything.

hey you described it like that not me. as I said before an rpg is an undefineable genre.

Eh. I don't think its truly undefinable. Maybe very broad. But not undefinable. That said that's just my opinion.

Though gaming media at large seems to think that if it focuses on storyline and has character development sometimes in the form of stats its an RPG.

well if thats the case smackdown vs raw is an rpg 

Smackdown vs Raw focuses on storyline? Really. Never played it. Though I figure it would be labeled a wrestling game due to the fact that that's the main focus...at least I'm pretty sure it is.

I personally would find it to be a RPG if there was a story to be found (that said I'm not overly fond of roleplaying actual people bugs me).

it's not it's main focus but it does have a god awful storyline in it.

[Ryzaki]

Edit: Forget it. I'm done. This is pointless.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 mai 2010 - 06:29 .

[Ryzaki]

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Roleplaying games are about playing a role not influencing the story.

Exactly. But how can you play a role without influencing the story?

The same way an actor reads their lines without improvising. They're still playing a part. Also you do control your character during combat, you control their development so yes you do play a role. You're playing the character the game wants tyou to play if you don't like that that's on you but that doesn't mean you're not playing a role.

EDIT: Phoenix wright series allows you to influence endings and its an adventure game. Not an RPG. Influencing the ending does not an RPG make.

so does forced unleashed, but I have to disagree with your definition because the way you explain it every single game is an rpg

Every single game is *not* an RPG. Every single game where you play a character with a set or not set role who affects the narrative you're playing an RPG. That maybe a majority but its not everything.

hey you described it like that not me. as I said before an rpg is an undefineable genre.

Eh. I don't think its truly undefinable. Maybe very broad. But not undefinable. That said that's just my opinion.

Though gaming media at large seems to think that if it focuses on storyline and has character development sometimes in the form of stats its an RPG.

well if thats the case smackdown vs raw is an rpg 

Smackdown vs Raw focuses on storyline? Really. Never played it. Though I figure it would be labeled a wrestling game due to the fact that that's the main focus...at least I'm pretty sure it is.

I personally would find it to be a RPG if there was a story to be found (that said I'm not overly fond of roleplaying actual people bugs me).

it's not it's main focus but it does have a god awful storyline in it.

XD

I can't be that bad.

Can it? 

[TheMufflon]

Ryzaki wrote...

You don't see how that contradicts itself? 

If you're fully defined and change the ending you not chosing how the character is defined. Which means you'd either have a blank boring protagonist the whole time or you'd need to have dialogue options to make your own character.

An action doesn't have to be a dialogue option to interact with the story, see my earlier example from Deus Ex. If the ending is determined by my characters actions, and my characters actions are determined by me, then in the act of playing my character an choosing and ending through his actions I am defining that character.

EDIT: Oh, and to adress your points about MMORPGs: Yes by my defenition, MMORPGs are not CRPGs. I find that they are significantly differentiated from CRPGs to warrant thier own genre: MMORPGs, while it usually handles minutia (such as stats and items) in a way similar to an CRPG the way in which it handles the defining characteristics is significantly different. In an MMORPG there really isn't a story to interact with, instead you create a 'story' through interaction with the the other players.

Modifié par TheMufflon, 15 mai 2010 - 06:37 .

[Ryzaki]

TheMufflon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You don't see how that contradicts itself? 

If you're fully defined and change the ending you not chosing how the character is defined. Which means you'd either have a blank boring protagonist the whole time or you'd need to have dialogue options to make your own character.

An action doesn't have to be a dialogue option to interact with the story, see my earlier example from Deus Ex. If the ending is determined by my characters actions, and my characters actions are determined by me, then in the act of playing my character an choosing and ending through his actions I am defining that character.

Right going in circles.

Anyway we obviously have different views on what an RPG is and they're not going to be reconciled so /shrug

I'm going to go pack to playing Pokemon.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 mai 2010 - 06:34 .

[the_one_54321]

Who ever said that you had to be in control of a characters actions to be playing his role? The character is not you. And the character can be created independent of you.