391 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

Ryzaki wrote...

MessyPossum wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

I have heard the Shin Megami Tensei games are really cool. The only one I played was Persona on the original Playstation.

I'm tempted to give it a try yet at the same time I'm reluctant since I have heard you play as a bunch of high school kids.

I don't mean to sound shallow but we really already have far too many RPGs where you play as a teenage protagonist. I'm sick of it.

On the other hand imagine if all the characters were Wynne. The protagonist in 3 and 4 is almost too stoic. Very mature for his age. So he isn't going to get moody, refuse to come out of his room, wishes you would die for trying to enforce the "ground rules". You may find you enjoy the game. Give it a chance. You can probably pick up P3FES for dirt cheap now.

Except for the emo hairstyle. But who am I kidding I love Persona 3.

If only it didn't end the way it did.

[Ryzaki]

MessyPossum wrote...

Yes Persona 3/4 absolutely amazing but gameplay that requires me to grind through monotony of the same hallways over and over... Meh. Persona though struck a decent balance with the inclusion of key NPCs that you get involved with.

Has anyone ever fallen asleep tapping x button while grinding just to be able to beat a boss?

Yes. And then I got trapped in a corner and killed by Death after grinding for 5 levels. <_<

I was not pleased.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

MessyPossum
wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

I have heard the Shin
Megami Tensei games are really cool. The only one I played was Persona
on the original Playstation.

I'm tempted to give it a try yet
at the same time I'm reluctant since I have heard you play as a bunch of
high school kids.

I don't mean to sound shallow but we really
already have far too many RPGs where you play as a teenage protagonist.
I'm sick of it.

On the other hand imagine if all the
characters were Wynne. The protagonist in 3 and 4 is almost too stoic.
Very mature for his age. So he isn't going to get moody, refuse to come
out of his room, wishes you would die for trying to enforce the "ground
rules". You may find you enjoy the game. Give it a chance. You can
probably pick up P3FES for dirt cheap now.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Except
for the emo hairstyle. But who am I kidding I love Persona 3.

If
only it didn't end the way it did. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie]

To
make it worse the alternate ending isn't much better either. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 mai 2010 - 01:11 .

[Ryzaki]

MessyPossum wrote...

I knew I wasn't the only one. Maybe I should have got the strategy guide from that gamestop salesgirl...

Nah just use the beauty of youtube and online guides. Cheapier and often more than not clearer.

The ending was amazing. I think I cried but I held it back because I'm a guy and guys don't cry, ever... But probably more so because there were other people around. Just thinking about it now... Why not Junpei?<_<

Junpei is kind of annoying. <_<

Though you have to admit that part where he knocked the guy from Strega who was immune to fire on his ass was hilarious.

Also...sad ending is sad.

First time I saw it I was alone and it was 2 in the morning. I bawled like a baby.

His power was over 9000!

[Mr.Skar]

Persona 4 has the slightly better story imo. Feels more personal and less "anime kids save the world from the adults". Not that I didn't enjoy 3, just that 4 is a bit better. As far as choices in a JRPG, the Shin Megami Tensei series (the main one, most recent for the console being Nocturne, with the DS's Strange Journey sorta counting) is built around the idea of your current alignment actually influencing the games ending. Even Devil Survivor has multiple endings based on your choices.

[enormousmoonboots]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Add Digital Devil Saga to that list, though I haven't beaten the first one so I do not know exactly *what* they are so I guess I could be wrong

The characters of DDS are definitely adults (or they fall into 'doesn't really have an age group because of their circumstances of birth').

But if you're playing a Persona/SMT game and grinding for something other than being able to summon a certain Persona (or sometimes for money, that bastard in the Velvet Room has all of my yens), you're doing something very wrong. Stat ups will not help you in a boss battle. They're also unusual in that status buffs/defuffs are essential to winning a boss battle, you can't just pound the enemy and expect to win. Slap a Tarunda on the boss and a Rakukaja on yourself and things get a lot easier.

If you're not a fan of teenage protagonists, give Strange Journey a try (although given what happens very quickly in Nocturne, you're only really a high schooler in the loosest sense of the word). Everyone's an adult, you're an American marine, pretty serious story.

[Cascadus]

Strange Journey is definitely really cool. It runs on the Etrian Odyssey engine, I believe. It's also among the 'mainstream' of the SMT franchise, after Nocturne. Not the spin-offs like Devil Summoner or Persona.
And I love Persona myself. P3 is a fantastic game, but I definitely think I prefer P4. I just feel like it's a much stronger game. And Chie. Can't forget Chie. Regardless, I can't wait till Persona 5 which was semi-officially announced by Persona's creator a bit back. And I also can't wait till Atlus trolls the ever-loving crap out of PS3 owners by releasing it on the Wii instead. It's only an eventuality.

[SirHaxelot]

Square-Enix tried to kill the Bioware...



HA HA HA! They failed... as they were THROWN to the ground!

[Ryzaki]

MessyPossum wrote...

Yeah but I'm not at my computer when I'm playing and I hate running back and forth. Good cardio though...

Ah the beauty of having a laptop. XD

I think the only game that made me cry was FF8 when Laguna takes Julia's hand... I swore I wouldn't again... *fans eyes*

XD.

Well I cried for several games. (Not to mention Raidata (Or was it Radiant? Bad game was bad) Stories when the main Character's LI died because I chose the human path I teared up. (Even though I hated the girl).

No. That's a bad Ryzaki! Never do that.

Aw. But that was a BA scene especially considering the strega dude was immune to fire.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 mai 2010 - 02:36 .

[Cascadus]

I cried during Mother 3 SO MUCH. Although I have the claim to fame of being likely the only person here who's even played it.

And then FFVI, which has just about some of the most heart-wrenching scenes to ever exist.

[Busomjack]

Final Fantasy VI was incredibly cheesy. That opera scene was so contrived. How did Celes manage to become a professional opera singer all of the sudden? While we're at it how did she manage to become a general at the age of 18?

Also, Kefka was just silly. I don't mind the whole "KILL KILL KILL" psychotic villain but Kefka's rise to power was only because the emperor was a complete idiot for trusting such a lunatic and it doesn't make sense that an idiot would've managed to conquer most of the world.



Luca Blight is a much better example of a insane main antagonist.



Sorry to get off track here but I think people give Final Fantasy VI way too much credit. The game is really silly.

[Cascadus]

...you know, I've never had much respect for you, Busomjack. But now I retain that much less for you.

[Busomjack]

Oh please, don't tell me you actually cried while playing that game...you did, didn't you?

[Twitchmonkey]

I love that he had the balls to make that statement more than anything. You usually see developers making an effort to avoid any controversy, so this was a nice change of pace.



As for the actual issue, I would say that games like Final Fantasy have more RPG elements than some games, but certainly not as much as a typical Bioware game, it's just a matter of where you want to draw the line. Just about every game lets you make some decisions about your role, hell, even a game like Halo lets you choose what weapons you're going to use and how you're going to take down an opponent. Final Fantasy takes this a bit further by letting you determine what armor your party members will wear and what role they will take (at least in some games, in others roles are pretty static). Maybe just out of nostalgia, I suppose I can draw the RPG line where Final Fantasy stands. It just barely has enough to make it a very watered down RPG, but nowhere near a game like Dragon Age or Mass Effect 2.



That's not to say that being less of an RPG makes them bad games, they're just not good RPGs.

[Busomjack]

The interview reminds me of the early console wars between the Sega Genesis VS Nintendo and the Sony Playstation VS Nintendo 64.



Sony and Sega would openly bash Nintendo and insult them. I remember Sony released ads while promoting Final Fantasy 7 where they mocked Nintendo's stupid decision to make the Nintendo 64 cartridge based.

It was great because that decision by Nintendo is what cost them Squaresoft's support to begin with.

[enormousmoonboots]

Busomjack wrote...

Final Fantasy VI was incredibly cheesy. That opera scene was so contrived. How did Celes manage to become a professional opera singer all of the sudden? While we're at it how did she manage to become a general at the age of 18?

She was engineered to be. At any rate, I always take 'official' ages with a large-size grain of salt. I think the 'official' age for Relm is like 5? Or 7? Yeeeah, I have a problem with that.

I probably deserve to lose my FF fan card for saying this, but even as a kid I was never a big fan of the opera scene. "I'm a general, not some opera floozy!" And then...she's a perfect opera singer anyway? Uh, okay. I mean, it's cool and all, but pretty out of nowhere. Playing it as a kid I thought there'd be some whole scene where you have to hunt down Maria and swap Celes out at the last minute or something but...no, super opera skills. But hey, Ultros.

Also, Kefka was just silly. I don't mind the whole "KILL KILL KILL" psychotic villain but Kefka's rise to power was only because the emperor was a complete idiot for trusting such a lunatic and it doesn't make sense that an idiot would've managed to conquer most of the world.

The Emperor just underestimated how nuts (and how smart) Kefka was. He figured he had a mad dog on a leash, but as long as it was pointed at someone else, things were fine. He...was incorrect.

Kefka's utter, blatant psychosis was a bit refreshing after the 'wait what' of Zemus (and Exdeath, if you were an emulator kid), though.

[Busomjack]

I still think it's a bit far fetched that the emperor put so much trust in someone like Kefka over a rational, military genius like Leo. Just look at the guy!



He's obviously completely bonkers.

Who in their right mind would look at someone like that and say
"yeah, I'm going to make him my second in command!"

I couldn't even get hired at McDonalds if I looked like that.

Not a huge issue though. Final Fantasy VI was good for it's time but I think if they were to remake the game or something they'd have to improve the writing a bit and develop the characters a bit further.

Modifié par Busomjack, 14 mai 2010 - 05:28 .

[enormousmoonboots]

Eh, 'he looks like a nut' is an issue you just gotta roll with. Hell, still happens, nobody in ME1 went up to Saren and said 'why the hell do you have a geth arm grafted to your side'. Especially in sprite games, changing a character's appearance in the slightest would double the amount of sprites they needed, and there just wasn't room in the cart for that.



And Leo was ultimately a noble person. The Emperor wasn't interested in that.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Eh, I played Final Fantasy 6 too late to really enjoy it. Last time I tried it out I was infuriated by the frequency of the random battles. I'd rather play Final Fantasy 5 where you are actively rewarded in combat.

[Ryzaki]

How are JRPGs overly tailored to a male audience more than WRPGs? :/ To me that's kind of backwards. WRPGs seem to be targeted more towards males while JRPGs tend to be more on the gender neutral side of things.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Well it depends. Some of it does indeed seem designed to be more gender neutral than the West as they seem to design primarily for males. For the most part though you very rarely have Female Player characters in JRPGs.



Lets see you've got Xenosaga Episodes 1 and 3. Soul Nomad you can choose (if you want to call that a RPG, its more of an awesome version of Ogre Battle). Persona 2: Eternal Punishment. Final Fantasy 5/6/13. Mana Khemia 2. I think I could find more if I spent enough time but Western Developers tend to let you choose more the Gender of the main character. All though that isn't something that is necessairly widespread among Western Devs

[Ryzaki]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well it depends. Some of it does indeed seem designed to be more gender neutral than the West as they seem to design primarily for males. For the most part though you very rarely have Female Player characters in JRPGs.

Lets see you've got Xenosaga Episodes 1 and 3. Soul Nomad you can choose (if you want to call that a RPG, its more of an awesome version of Ogre Battle). Persona 2: Eternal Punishment. Final Fantasy 5/6/13. Mana Khemia 2. I think I could find more if I spent enough time but Western Developers tend to let you choose more the Gender of the main character. All though that isn't something that is necessairly widespread among Western Devs

True but for the most part the gender of the WRPG character seems merely aesthetic. Except for some cases like Fallout and BW games. (When I say fallout I mean all of them).

Also seeing as how for the most part JRPGs tend to have romance in them (typical boy meets girl, falls in love with girl, saves girl) it gives me more of a gender neutral vibe than WRPGs. Just because you can play a female doesn't to me anyway mean the game is naturally aimed for females. I personally prefer playing male characters.

Though yeah it depends. I suppose its probably just me. WRPGs other than BW games never actually made me feel as though they were aimed towards females as well. (and heck we lost some of that in ME2 with FemShep's lack of personal animations).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 mai 2010 - 07:59 .

[enormousmoonboots]

Japan is still suck in a lot of gender roles (not to say the US isn't, but it doesn't stand out quite as much to us), so that may be where the 'aimed towards males' impression comes from. But they do seem to have more of a neutral tone overall.



It's kind of interesting (and sometimes frustrating) when you notice the culture gap like that. Like how a good chunk of social links in P3/4 were 'my family wants me to do _____ but I want to choose my career for myself--and my choice is the thing my family wants me to do, no, really!'