28 réponses à ce sujet

[bas273]

Don't get me wrong, I love ME2 but this has bothered me for a while. It makes the game less immersive imo.

ME2 has misleading biotic powers! When I first recruited Jack, I was amazed by her biotic powers (how she took down all those guards) and she seemed like a valuable asset to my team. During the next mission, after she used Pull on an enemy I had to wait for a stupid cooldown before I was able to use Shockwave. No biotic combos? Why, Bioware?

Some other examples:
- In ME1, Liara was cute and a bit of a nerd. She could deal out a serious punch with her biotic powers but she was also a very nice girl: she even felt sorry for Saren! In the Redemption comic, she's full of anger and not the Liara we all loved in ME1. Shepard's death probably caused this change but instead of giving us some answers (as promised!), the comics only bring up more questions. My point is: in the comics Liara is a very powerful biotic who can take down multiple enemies with one biotic power. There's no such power in ME2 and she wasn't that powerful in ME1.
- In the suicide mission, you need a biotic to create a shield to protect your squad against the swarms. Erm... a shield? Why can't I use a shield like that during normal combat? That would've been very useful when the Normandy got attacked at the beginning of the suicide mission or in some of the boss fights.
- During Samara's loyalty mission (and her recruit mission), she uses biotic powers that let her float in the air etc.

ME2 puts a lot more focus on action. In many cutscenes characters use powers and talents that are not available during normal combat. The reason is obvious: it's more spectacular and more people will buy your game.

But it's not necessary. Look at ME1. ME1 is very immersive and quite realistic. There were still cutscenes with a lot of spectacular action: hell, the final battle was better than everything we've seen in ME2 imho.

I just don't understand why you would let someone use lots of awesome powers/talents in a cutscene but not make them available for normal gameplay. What do you think?

EDIT: I understand that this is a game we're talking about but ME1 did a much better job at this imo. I can't think of any examples in ME1 that feel unrealistic. Maybe Matriarch Benezia who summons those Asari Commandos but she just calls for their aid.

Modifié par bas273, 13 mai 2010 - 07:56 .

[NICKjnp]

An adept can create biotic combos.... Shepard is the bad ass biotic.

[Mykel54]

I think you kind of answered yourself. The cinematics are done to look good, for example see the fight between Samara and Morinth, why can´t Samara or Morinth throw boxes and other objects towards enemies in actual gameplay? Because the game is not created about including cool abilities (biotic or otherwise), but about gameplay. What i mean is that each class has a kind of gameplay, with certain abilities which do specific things. If you started adding cool abilities to everyone, then the balance of the game would be throw off, or it would be much harder to balance.



I understand your point about the cinematic abilities being a lot more impressive, and i agree that it would be nice if some of that could be seen in actual gameplay. But the game needs to created first for gameplay, second for graphics. I think it would be cool if for example there were more biotic combos, for example you could use pull to lift an object, then throw to send it agaisnt the enemy and do damage to it. Currently the only biotic combo worth mentioning is the warp explosion.



About the barrier on the suicide mission, i think it would not be practical. That barrier did not stop any enemy entering it, or firing throught it. The only thing it did was to keep away the seeker swarms who could no penetrate the barrier. It was a very situational use, the closest thing in gameplay is the barrier ability. Which if you ask me was a lot cooler graphically in ME1, but it is still a biotic barrier.

[bas273]

Yeah you are right about the barrier on the suicide mission.



Well I think the powers are fine, I don't want more impressive powers. I just want the cutscenes and cinematics to be more realistic. Not less spectacular, it's still possible to create some pretty awesome cutscenes without going extreme (Jack killing dozens of guards, Samara floating up in the air and killing her daughter, Liara unleashing her powers in the Shadow Broker's complex and on Omega). A cutscene of Jack using Pull + Throw on an enemy can still be fun to look at. When you meet her for the first time, she seems like a killing machine. When she joins your squad, she dies rather quickly on Insanity if she faces a few Blue Sun enemies (and you don't do anything).

[vadrillan]

True, but then Shepard's the saviour of the galaxy and he dies on Insanity sometimes too

[bas273]

Well that's another thing in the cutscenes that bothers me. Shepard is always wielding an assault rifle. I usually play as an Infiltrator or sometimes a Sentinel (with sniper rifles) so that's not very realistic and it takes away some of the immersion.

I love cutscenes but you shouldn't put stuff in it that is not by any means possible according to normal gameplay and in-game lore.

[Tlazolteotl]

Especially since the cutscenes were advertised to "showcase the main character's customisation."

Was it Casey who said everything about the character, from looks to armour to weapon loadout, would be seen in cutscenes?

The assault rifle appearing out of nowhere sorta sinks that ship ...

[FFTARoxorz05]

Video game cutscenes never equal gameplay. Bioware's a bit too western to go nuts with that idea, but its still a rule for some reason.

[Spartas Husky]

regarding the shield....the shield is weak...and only creates a barrier against very small bodies of mass.



Is a biotic....biotics, fully trained, kick ass.



In the real life game lol as odd as that sounds, Samara took down squads of Eclipse mercs, once she joins you she cant survive 1 Drone of a Collector alone.



Powers are dumbed down when the individuals become friends to give more action pack scenes

[MrNose]

Yeah... I know it would be difficult to put in certain mechanics, but Jack really should have been able to execute her own style of "Krogan Charge" based on the cutscenes.

[Zaisha_temp]

Mykel54 wrote...
 why can´t Samara or Morinth throw boxes and other objects towards enemies in actual gameplay?

Because they're not as cool as Wasea. Seriously, Shep would have been a lot better off if Cerberus had wired Zaeed's funding to that one Eclipse merc instead of the former Blue Sun. No need to bother with the Asari templar/cop then either.

[Zaisha_temp]

MrNose wrote...

Yeah... I know it would be difficult to put in certain mechanics, but Jack really should have been able to execute her own style of "Krogan Charge" based on the cutscenes.

Considering the squamate AI's demonstrated decision making skill (or lack of same), and the level of planning/accuracy required for playing a Vanguard, there is a very good reason not a single AI controlled character (team or hostile) has Biotic Charge. 

[JaegerBane]

I think it's to be expect with regards to cutscenes. There's a rather bizarro scene on Miranda's mission where she uses a combo of Pull and Throw despite not having either.

And it's not even just about Biotics - for some weird reason, the crew of the normandy have thing for willing assault rifles into existence if they don't normally use one.

I'd prefer it if they kept things a bit more accurate to the characters - the ending smackdown scene in Dragon Age Awakening, for instance, differes depending on your class.

[MrNose]

Zaisha_temp wrote...

MrNose wrote...

Yeah... I know it would be difficult to put in certain mechanics, but Jack really should have been able to execute her own style of "Krogan Charge" based on the cutscenes.

Considering the squamate AI's demonstrated decision making skill (or lack of same), and the level of planning/accuracy required for playing a Vanguard, there is a very good reason not a single AI controlled character (team or hostile) has Biotic Charge. 

That's why I said a style of "Krogan Charge."  Just like Grunt melees enemies (quite effectively at lower difficulties, btw), Jack should be able do the same.  

[MrNose]

JaegerBane wrote...

I think it's to be expect with regards to cutscenes. There's a rather bizarro scene on Miranda's mission where she uses a combo of Pull and Throw despite not having either.

And it's not even just about Biotics - for some weird reason, the crew of the normandy have thing for willing assault rifles into existence if they don't normally use one.

I'd prefer it if they kept things a bit more accurate to the characters - the ending smackdown scene in Dragon Age Awakening, for instance, differes depending on your class.

Yeah, I agree that things should change based on your class, but I also understand the difficulty with this.  It seems clear to me that Miranda would "know" Pull and Throw since she uses Warp, which IMO is more advanced than pull, and because she uses Slam, which uses a similar biotic skillset to pull and throw.

Cutscene Miranda, Jack, and Thane are presented as quite overpowered in the cutscenes and are scaled back in gameplay in order to balance them, IMO. 

[Kid_SixXx]

I'm not too bummed. As much trouble as I had fighting YMIR mechs with a team, I knew that the cutscene depicting Jack's power level was blown out of context.



Even so, I wish that the devs had used some of the awesomeness from the cutscene and pulled the trigger on giving Biotic Charge to Jack as a loyalty power.



Warp Ammo? Seriously?

[JaegerBane]

Kid_SixXx wrote...
Warp Ammo? Seriously?

To a certain extent, I agree - while Warp Ammo ranks as probably my fave bonus power in the whole game, an is perfect for my Adept, it doesn't really seem like the kind of power that you'd give to a psychotic ex-cultist with a penchant for mass destruction. Something big and explosive maybe (like a Biotic Punch? Biotic version of Kasumi's Shadow Strike?).

Warp Ammo would have made more sense on Samara. Seems to fit her more focused, disciplined methodology.

[bas273]

It just seems strange that Jack can take down three mechs in a matter of seconds but as soon as she joins your squad, she dies when facing only one mech.

It's a design choice I guess (ME1 was more realistic imo).

And I agree that Warp Ammo is not very spectacular (even though it's a useful power). Some kind of "Rage" (read: Berserk) ability would've been nice.

[swk3000]

While I understand where you're coming from, consider that part of the reason you play a game is to have a challenge. Where's the challenge when all you do is point Jack at the nearest enemy and watch her destroy everyone in a 3-meter radius as she charges forward? If Jack can take out 3 YMIR Mechs, then she should be able to punch through the Colossus with even less trouble, and that makes that fight pointless.



Cut scenes showcase some of the things that Biotics are able to do; things that can't be implemented in-game because of programming and balance issues. You may like the idea of having Jack charge at Harbinger, and Samara crushing skulls using nothing more than her biotics, but at the end of the day, that's a very boring game, and it's sales are going to tank, and we'll never see any sequels. After all, if the first game was boring, then why bother picking up any sequels? Boredom 2.0 is just as boring as Boredom: The Game.

[RGFrog]

Easy, she, well any biotic in the game could have a hyper biotic with some intense power usage only to leave them spent and useless. It's not that hard to balance what they do in the cut scenes with gameplay. It just takes some thought (about 5 seconds) that BW just didn't want to or couldn't put into the game dynamics (thought, not the act of putting the abilities there).



Yes, it is a game and as such the pebkac factor is high and keeping him/her engaged is the main focus while keeping them in the story is second. But that's no reason to take the easy road, which BW obviously did with ME2.

[Doriath]

I don't understand anything in the above post, but swk3000 pretty much sums up why Jack in the cutscene is not Jack in-game. I can put a list of plenty of games up here just in recent years that have given players the same feeling.

Perfect illustration: Bioshock 2. You play as a Big Daddy. If you've played the original Bioshock you know what they can do. How stupid would it be if you ran through the game basically shoulder charging everything into oblivion and being nigh invincible. It would be cool for like a second, than you'd get bored with the repetitive and mindless gameplay.

Modifié par chrisnabal, 15 mai 2010 - 01:28 .

[bas273]

swk3000 wrote...

While I understand where you're coming from, consider that part of the reason you play a game is to have a challenge. Where's the challenge when all you do is point Jack at the nearest enemy and watch her destroy everyone in a 3-meter radius as she charges forward? If Jack can take out 3 YMIR Mechs, then she should be able to punch through the Colossus with even less trouble, and that makes that fight pointless.

Cut scenes showcase some of the things that Biotics are able to do; things that can't be implemented in-game because of programming and balance issues. You may like the idea of having Jack charge at Harbinger, and Samara crushing skulls using nothing more than her biotics, but at the end of the day, that's a very boring game, and it's sales are going to tank, and we'll never see any sequels. After all, if the first game was boring, then why bother picking up any sequels? Boredom 2.0 is just as boring as Boredom: The Game.

It's exactly the other way around. I don't want Jack to be more powerful in-game, I want her to be less powerful in the cutscenes. It's just a small annoyance, nothing more.
You can still create spectacular cutscenes without going extreme and letting her use non-existent biotic powers, like 'mech charge'.

[phordicus]

i remember seeing the ads for Tank Girl where they played Hole's "Violet". i went to see the movie based on the sheer badassness of that song. the movie was so-so and the song wasn't even on the soundtrack.



the point is they've tricked you into thinking the game is cooler than it actually is. they can't come up with a way to design and balance the gameplay to incorporate "powerful" abilities such as sam's flight or jack's quad-mech-nuke, so they throw it in a cutscene which looks great but has nothing to do with the game you're actually playing.

[bas273]

phordicus wrote...

i remember seeing the ads for Tank Girl where they played Hole's "Violet". i went to see the movie based on the sheer badassness of that song. the movie was so-so and the song wasn't even on the soundtrack.

the point is they've tricked you into thinking the game is cooler than it actually is. they can't come up with a way to design and balance the gameplay to incorporate "powerful" abilities such as sam's flight or jack's quad-mech-nuke, so they throw it in a cutscene which looks great but has nothing to do with the game you're actually playing.

Exactly. It brings up wrong expectations. Same for the trailer in which Shepard uses Pull on three enemies at the same time (and Grunt finishes them off).

Modifié par bas273, 15 mai 2010 - 09:56 .

[swk3000]

That trailer you're talking about had those three enemies close together. Pull Field has a 3 meter radius, so it hits a circle about 6 meters across. Those enemies were clearly within 6 meters of each other.



Frankly, I like the cut scenes. They showcase some of the things that Biotics are actually capable of doing, without having to deal with the technical headache of having to implement it. After all, I doubt that there are a grand total of 5 different types of Assault Rifle in the entire galaxy. Or 2 different types of Heavy Pistol.