120 réponses à ce sujet

[chzr]

I agree with sticky here, the 160+ wishlist is simply a mess now and this looks more like a compromise after all (atm). It's not up to me though.

Actually, the whole problem of scanning seems to be that it's WAY overused. So if they make it like after the patch (nor I can test it but seems fine now) and probably more effective, so u don't need to spend hours mining for an upgrade, it's not a big deal imho...

It's similiar with minigames. You've got a point there with ME1/ME2 comparision. Even if there are less minigames in ME2, they are simply no challenge. As I mentioned earlier, the Oblivion solved this pretty well. Either learn it manually (I emphasize the word "learn" here, not "wait 10 seconds until an overrideable code appears or w/e), or have a talent in squad (could be solved by return of the decryption/electronics from ME1)

Alignment reactions:
It would imho perfectly fit the P/R system and contribute to the atmosphere a lot. Still, the question is how to solve the "P/R conversation checks. I actually think that the interrupts should be available to everyone (simply because you don't need any "skill" to slap someone even you're the most kind person ever, nor to interrupt your squadmate shooting a person he doesn't like.
In conversations however, it's different. I mean, If you have reputation of a ruthless killer, why should someone trust you when you try to negotiate with him. Maybe if you have *too many* renegade points, you couldn't use paragon answers and vice versa? That would also make the "neutral" Shepard possible, because you would have only "few" points from both P/R, so you still could use those alignment dialogue options.
Other way are the "talking" skills (maybe more than 2, someone suggested seducing, would be definately interesting). I don't mind spending points in those instead of combat skills in RPGs, but the problem is that in many games these skills are so useless that it's not worth taking it.

Another thing I was thinking about: someone mentioned bringing more companions on missions. I'd suggest an options taking less perhaps? Why we can't go solo or duo? I know it's not that important, but it wouldn't hurt anyone, would it?

Modifié par chzr, 25 mai 2010 - 09:51 .

[uberdowzen]

chzr wrote...

I agree with sticky here, the 160+ wishlist is simply a mess now and this looks more like a compromise after all (atm). It's not up to me though.

I sent off a message to Chris Priestly, so hopefully...

Actually, the whole problem of scanning seems to be that it's WAY overused. So if they make it like after the patch (nor I can test it but seems fine now) and probably more effective, so u don't need to spend hours mining for an upgrade, it's not a big deal imho...

Completely agree

It's similiar with minigames. You've got a point there with ME1/ME2 comparision. Even if there are less minigames in ME2, they are simply no challenge. As I mentioned earlier, the Oblivion solved this pretty well. Either learn it manually (I emphasize the word "learn" here, not "wait 10 seconds until an overrideable code appears or w/e), or have a talent in squad (could be solved by return of the decryption/electronics from ME1)

I reckon some of the best minigames in years have been Fallout 3's. You couldn't even attempt them if your skill wasn't high enough and they actually felt like you were hacking a computer or picking a lock. I mean, what has circular frogger have to do with a lock?

Alignment reactions:
It would imho perfectly fit the P/R system and contribute to the atmosphere a lot. Still, the question is how to solve the "P/R conversation checks. I actually think that the interrupts should be available to everyone (simply because you don't need any "skill" to slap someone even you're the most kind person ever, nor to interrupt your squadmate shooting a person he doesn't like.

I'm not sure the interupts are determined by Paragon/Renegade meter are they?

In conversations however, it's different. I mean, If you have reputation of a ruthless killer, why should someone trust you when you try to negotiate with him. Maybe if you have *too many* renegade points, you couldn't use paragon answers and vice versa? That would also make the "neutral" Shepard possible, because you would have only "few" points from both P/R, so you still could use those alignment dialogue options.
Other way are the "talking" skills (maybe more than 2, someone suggested seducing, would be definately interesting). I don't mind spending points in those instead of combat skills in RPGs, but the problem is that in many games these skills are so useless that it's not worth taking it.

You're right, it'd be an interesting new angle.

Another thing I was thinking about: someone mentioned bringing more companions on missions. I'd suggest an options taking less perhaps? Why we can't go solo or duo? I know it's not that important, but it wouldn't hurt anyone, would it?

It'd be cool but I think the reason they probably don't do it is that they'd have to edit the cinematics so that they didn't have those parts where it pans to a companion.

[Illusivestofmen]

1. Fix planet scanning, patch likely already does this, but add a place where I can BUY minerals.

2. I want the Citadel to be as big as it was or almost as big as ME1.

3. I want more post game dialogue, there were glaring problems here for a game that excels in character interaction, most did not even acknowledge events that happened.

4.More casual clothing options, all Shepard's outfits looked gay.

5.More weapons/armor.

6.General polish, there are some real problems with eyelids and lips clipping I want gone.

7. Randomize the dialogue trees, it is too predictable to just press the first choice for paragon, the middle as neutral, and the bottom for renegade.



All of these could be fixed with patches and dlc, if we are talking about what we want for ME3 the list is bigger. Great game but could get even better with a few tweeks. I'd like to see a game of the year edition but seeing as we won't the the big dlc content come out until after January, I don't think we will see it for quite some time.

[uberdowzen]

Illusivestofmen wrote...

1. Fix planet scanning, patch likely already does this, but add a place where I can BUY minerals.

Hopefully, if they fix planet scanning, this won't be required.

2. I want the Citadel to be as big as it was or almost as big as ME1.

I was thinking about this, did you play DAO. How would you feel about the citadel being like Denerim, e.g. lots of smaller areas connected on a large map.

3. I want more post game dialogue, there were glaring problems here for a game that excels in character interaction, most did not even acknowledge events that happened.

Would be good, as long as it didn't take away from the dialogue during the game.

4.More casual clothing options, all Shepard's outfits looked gay.

Oh, I dunno. I mean some of them weren't great, but male Shepherd smuggler clothes were pretty cool.

5.More weapons/armor.

With you on that.

6.General polish, there are some real problems with eyelids and lips clipping I want gone.

Yes, definetly. They were worse than in ME1 although the area I noticed it the most was in the ambassador's office, which is an area from ME1, some kind of importing issue maybe? Also this happened a fair bit in ME1 it's just the film grain in that game covered it up.

7. Randomize the dialogue trees, it is too predictable to just press the first choice for paragon, the middle as neutral, and the bottom for renegade.

I sort of agree with this, my only issue is that it could cause some confusion.

All of these could be fixed with patches and dlc, if we are talking about what we want for ME3 the list is bigger. Great game but could get even better with a few tweeks. I'd like to see a game of the year edition but seeing as we won't the the big dlc content come out until after January, I don't think we will see it for quite some time.

Oh, whoops. I only just realised that I called the page "...suggestions thread for Mass Effect 2". That should read 3, my bad.

[Illusivestofmen]

@Urderdowsen Really I don't have too many problems, these do not need to be fixed in ME2 pronto, but they are essential in ME3. The post game dialogue one was a pet peeve of mine. Like I'd talk to Garrus and he'd say "Good job blowing up the collector base" Then say "Our chances of getting out of the collector base alive are not good" wtf, that's a very unbioware mistake. also noticed this with LI dialogue when you've already hooked up yet the LI is still thinking about it. As for the randomization, I know allot of people would dislike that but I found myself not reading the options and just saying "ok I wanna be paragon so I will just do the top one for everything" That's the wrong way to do it and I'm tempted by it the way it is set up now. BTW I misread it too, but fixes for ME2 are fixes for ME3 so it doesn't really matter I suppose.

[Lumikki]

uberdowzen wrote...

The current draft:

Gameplay:
[list][*]Make it easier to play a neutral character and make persuades/intimidates more of a character choice (like in ME1).

This has put me thinking. In ME1 we had points to put persuades and intimidates. How ever, that doesn't really give us much better choises, because how many point you can put is still based paragon and renegade actions, choises in dialogs. Meaning only real choise here is, do you want to put points there or not. What is same as do you want extra dialog option or not. Now, what it means?

It means that those options only offer one thing, not wanting more dialog options to solve situation and putting points to somewhere else. Is that really good thing as choise? It's like saying I don't care what the choises are, just give me my gun.

Now as paragon and renegade, when you have more dialog option, you don't really need both of them just one. Example if You are paragon, then you need persuade option. If you are renegade you need intimidate option. So, it's actually paragon and renegade what defines the options. Also paragon and renegade is define by player dialog options, so the choise is allready there.

Now the orginal idea is ability be more neutral. What seem resonable suggestion as getting sometimes neutral special cinema dialog option.

Meaning if you have equal amount of paragon and renegade, should it open extra neutral dialog option? Short of if paragon or renegade doesn't open option, then they sum of them could do it? How ever, that leaves one more question, why we then need paragon and renegade extra dialog options at all, if you can allways use neutral dialog option to solve situation. Maybe it's just allow players to play sertain role? Point of those extra option was that if you are too middle you don't neccassary get any extra option. How ever, should we?

So, in the end, I think what they did in ME2 is actually right. It's simple and allows players to them self deside do they want to be neutral, paragon or renegade. I don't think we actualy need the points in persuades and intimidates as paradon/renegade is doing it automaticly based our own actions and choises. Short of keeping track of our choises. Of course that requires that we know what our charcater is actualy trying to say?

Modifié par Lumikki, 26 mai 2010 - 11:36 .

[Dethateer]

Lumikki wrote...

Now as paragon and renegade, when you have more dialog option, you don't really need both of them just one. Example if You are paragon, then you need persuade option. If you are renegade you need intimidate option. So, it's actually paragon and renegade what defines the options. Also paragon and renegade is define by player dialog options, so the choise is allready there.

Actually, if you would have read the first page... you DO need both, because people aren't always nice or dickish. Blocking off one means artificially cutting down dialogue options.

[Lumikki]

Dethateer wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Now as paragon and renegade, when you have more dialog option, you don't really need both of them just one. Example if You are paragon, then you need persuade option. If you are renegade you need intimidate option. So, it's actually paragon and renegade what defines the options. Also paragon and renegade is define by player dialog options, so the choise is allready there.

Actually, if you would have read the first page... you DO need both, because people aren't always nice or dickish. Blocking off one means artificially cutting down dialogue options.

Of course that's the point, if You are paragon, why would you get renegade options, if you aren't intimadate at all. To get extra renegade option, you need to do renegade action in dialog and you have that option there allready. I have had few case where both are open even if i'm more paragon. How ever, paragon doesn't usualy need renegade option, because he has paragon extra option allready.

Modifié par Lumikki, 26 mai 2010 - 11:29 .

[Dethateer]

Way to miss the point. Sometimes, people feel the need to pick the renegade option, despite them being paragon. It's who they are. They can't roleplay properly if that renegade option is blocked off.

[Lumikki]

Dethateer wrote...

Way to miss the point. Sometimes, people feel the need to pick the renegade option, despite them being paragon. It's who they are. They can't roleplay properly if that renegade option is blocked off.

I understand that, but that's the problem.

The blocking dialog option is there because it is preventing players do empty dialog options,  what doesn't do anything. The blocking is there because that dialog choise doesn't have wanted result. Meaning, you characters imago isn't build to affect the npcs wanted way. It's like player want to do successful persuade action, but you character can't persuade npc in this situation. So, the option is blocked, because it would fail. So, it's there more like don't waste players time to do dialog with npcs, if it doesn't have any affect. It would actually spoil the games atmosphere to see succesful persuade/intimidate dialog cinema without the actual result.

So, if they would open those action to players, then we all would do alot of those extra dialog actions for nothing. Meaning, it doesn't do anything, like alot of cienema talking and nothing happen. Now that they are blocked, we know when we have special possibility to affect npcs. Is it really better to allow players do dialog choises what does nothing or allow them to do dialog choises only when it actually does something?

Player does have those three normal option to go forward in dialogs, paragon (persuade), neutral (reason) and renegade (intimidate), see if they works to npc. Just those special dialog option open when character see opportunity and it does something..

What you asked here is that player can do successful renegade dialog special action, even when players characters doesn't have enough renegade image for it.  That's not good roleplaying is it?

Modifié par Lumikki, 26 mai 2010 - 11:19 .

[Zhijn]

**edit

wrong topic. ops, heh. Sorry!. hrmf.

Modifié par Zhijn, 26 mai 2010 - 11:49 .

[uberdowzen]

I've always viewed the Role playing in ME as quite basic. You're character has an overall philosophy but is totally willing to break it if someone is pissing him/her off or if they feel sorry for someone.

[ModerateOsprey]

Separate ammo powers into weapon upgrades or don't make them subject to a cool down. You already pay a time penalty when selecting the ammo power and then are unable to use a power. An example is playing an infiltrator who cloaks when moving in and then being unable to select their ammo type.



I would also like to see the addition of a tabbed interface in the pause menu for your 'documents':- Journal, Codex, Email, Mission Summaries, Resources, etc. - display a notification (on my mobile device (implant?) at the end of the mission, so there is the continuity provided by airlocks and elevators etc. I like the information that is provided on the mission screens, just not the timing of their presentation. Give me a web browser for all this stuff, hyperlinks would be a nice touch.

[uberdowzen]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Separate ammo powers into weapon upgrades or don't make them subject to a cool down. You already pay a time penalty when selecting the ammo power and then are unable to use a power. An example is playing an infiltrator who cloaks when moving in and then being unable to select their ammo type.

I'd prefer if they kept ammo as powers, but I completely agree that the cooldown is too long. It seems almost as if they trying to encourage you not to use them.

I would also like to see the addition of a tabbed interface in the pause menu for your 'documents':- Journal, Codex, Email, Mission Summaries, Resources, etc. - display a notification (on my mobile device (implant?) at the end of the mission, so there is the continuity provided by airlocks and elevators etc. I like the information that is provided on the mission screens, just not the timing of their presentation. Give me a web browser for all this stuff, hyperlinks would be a nice touch.

IMO, the only thing I ended up reading on the Mission Complete screens was the Illusive Man's report, and even they were somewhat superfluous. Not to mention immersion breaking. I mean, I remember how much resources I picked up on a mission, I was just doing it.

[Chuvvy]

Make everything to do with characters, squad interaction, dialog, romances ect like DAO.
Keep the combat the way it is but improve squad AI
???
Profit.

Modifié par Slidell505, 27 mai 2010 - 03:14 .

[uberdowzen]

Want a different perspective? Check out A PRODUCTIVE suggestions thread for ME3 and missed in ME2.

Modifié par uberdowzen, 07 juin 2010 - 12:14 .

[theelementslayer]

 Let me start out by saying ME2 was probably the best game I have played, story was great, characters believable and the visuals were top of the line. By all accounts and purposes, and I know Im going to get flamed for this, it was a step up from Mass Effect 1. Better shooting dynamics, more epic story. I know they say Saren was an easier enemy to be scared about but when you think of it in the first one you are fighting one Spectre, and one Reaper, in the second game you are fighting (SPOILER) a whole civilization of people under the command of Harbinger. A bit more of an immenint threat. (END SPOILER)

Also the pacing was probably the best in a game Ive seen that wasn't an FPS. Usually in games longer then 20 hours I get bored. Maybe its because I come from a FPS background of gameplays that are 6-10 hours long but the numerous sidequests, in ME1, DAO, FFXIII, Borderlands and well really any RPG they seem to get repetative. In ME2 they took out the cut and paste sidequests-Go here kill this-and replaced it with ones that every time had a different backstory and everything. I would love to see more content in ME3, but it shouldnt screw up the pacing. Ex, in DA:O it seems that the blight stops just so you can walk around the map and help out everyone in the game. In ME1 it seems Saren stops looking for the Conduit as you fly around picking up artifacts and such. Bioware go big for the time, I would love to see a 100 hr long game, hell I would pay 100 bucks for it no problem but keep the pacing. I had no problem going around helping out my squad as the galaxy was under attack because they were my troops and I cared about them.

But it had its drawbacks and most have been said however I dont think a few have. I will name them all anyways

-Renegade/Paragon actions: Have some of the paragon actions blow up in your face. Like in GTA4 you let some guy walk, good for you, now your a good guy, and later in the game he finds you and lo and behold hes pissed at you for making him beg for his life, now hes not on your side and wants to kill you.  I would love to see some actions, (SPOILERS) like letting the Rachni go or helping out the Quarian on Omega (SPOILER END) and have that blow up in your face. Sure you did a good thing but maybe the NPC wasn't entirely truthful about their intentions and boom you screwed up and have to fix your mistake.

-LI's: (The whole point is full of spoilers to illustrate it) After my numerous playthroughs I finally found out that Jack really was the best LI in the game. She had depth, not a pretty cheerleader like Miranda or the sweet and innocent Tali(loved them both dont get me wrong) but Jacks backstory was just amazing and well I cared about her. However after the cutscene before the suicide mission she said the same damn thing when I went to talk to her. She just let herself close to someone, she should have something to say. I invited her up the the room but again all you can do is sit or lie with her. Some after diolouge would be nice, hell it would only have to be a few lines in another conversation after and it would be good.

-After game dialouge: This might not be a big deal because we dont know how the hell the story is going to end, Shephard might die the hero, in some cases he/she may already be dead, and nothing against all you guys with ideas on the plot of the game-some are great-but bioware is king at stories, they know what they are doing and probably have had an idea of what to do  since ME1

-Upgrades-ME1 was way too much, ME2 was a touch too little. Compromise and why not have a tech tree like in Civ games for upgrades it would be kind of coo lbut maybe not in place with the RPG game. Also make it easier to see what you have already upgraded, I found it kind of annoying looking through every single one of my upgrades in chronological order to see what I had upgraded. Loved the ship upgrades though, that was a brilliant plan.

-Quick rant here excuse it please. For all you people saying make the LI's, sex scenes, and loyalty missions like DA:O, I wont say your not entilted to your opinion and this is only my opinion, but I dont think it would work for ME2, in DA:O you have to get their approval and their loyalty and such and they dont know you so yeah talking to them makes them trust you more, however in ME2, in the words of Mirada, Shepard is a bloody icon, everyone knows whats shes capable of and thats why they ask Shepard to help because he/she can do it, Shepard is the best at it.

Other then that make it just an amazing epic story, a few wisecracks from Joker and a fast paced, twisting, amazing melodramatic story, youve done it twice before Bioware, get a 100 Metacritic score, we kow you can.

[uberdowzen]

theelementslayer wrote...

-Renegade/Paragon actions: Have some of the paragon actions blow up in your face. Like in GTA4 you let some guy walk, good for you, now your a good guy, and later in the game he finds you and lo and behold hes pissed at you for making him beg for his life, now hes not on your side and wants to kill you.  I would love to see some actions, (SPOILERS) like letting the Rachni go or helping out the Quarian on Omega (SPOILER END) and have that blow up in your face. Sure you did a good thing but maybe the NPC wasn't entirely truthful about their intentions and boom you screwed up and have to fix your mistake.

I agree both ME games had a decided lack of consequences for your actions. If a choices has an effect later it tends to be something minor.

-LI's: (The whole point is full of spoilers to illustrate it) After my numerous playthroughs I finally found out that Jack really was the best LI in the game. She had depth, not a pretty cheerleader like Miranda or the sweet and innocent Tali(loved them both dont get me wrong) but Jacks backstory was just amazing and well I cared about her. However after the cutscene before the suicide mission she said the same damn thing when I went to talk to her. She just let herself close to someone, she should have something to say. I invited her up the the room but again all you can do is sit or lie with her. Some after diolouge would be nice, hell it would only have to be a few lines in another conversation after and it would be good.

Though I have to diagree on Jack being the best female LI I do agree that the dialogue in the part you're talking about would be better.

-After game dialouge: This might not be a big deal because we dont know how the hell the story is going to end, Shephard might die the hero, in some cases he/she may already be dead, and nothing against all you guys with ideas on the plot of the game-some are great-but bioware is king at stories, they know what they are doing and probably have had an idea of what to do  since ME1

Personally I'd rather that they put work into the dialogue during the game (I kind of think that the game has ended once you finish the suicide mission and that anything after that is just a bonus) but some of the slip ups wouldn't have been hard to fix and if they're going to have the feature it should be done properly.

-Upgrades-ME1 was way too much, ME2 was a touch too little. Compromise and why not have a tech tree like in Civ games for upgrades it would be kind of coo lbut maybe not in place with the RPG game. Also make it easier to see what you have already upgraded, I found it kind of annoying looking through every single one of my upgrades in chronological order to see what I had upgraded. Loved the ship upgrades though, that was a brilliant plan.

If you check the list in the first post you'll notice that we have come up with a compromise for the upgrades. See what you think.

-Quick rant here excuse it please. For all you people saying make the LI's, sex scenes, and loyalty missions like DA:O, I wont say your not entilted to your opinion and this is only my opinion, but I dont think it would work for ME2, in DA:O you have to get their approval and their loyalty and such and they dont know you so yeah talking to them makes them trust you more, however in ME2, in the words of Mirada, Shepard is a bloody icon, everyone knows whats shes capable of and thats why they ask Shepard to help because he/she can do it, Shepard is the best at it.

I agree, I don't think that DAO's system would mesh well with ME and to be totally honest I thought that the way DAO handled LI's didn't really work. It did mean you had to listen to your companions to see what gifts that they'd appreciate and it was a clever replacement for a morality system but it felt gamey and didn't tie well into the progression of the game.

Other then that make it just an amazing epic story, a few wisecracks from Joker and a fast paced, twisting, amazing melodramatic story, youve done it twice before Bioware, get a 100 Metacritic score, we kow you can.

Fingers crossed....

[DreDk]

During ME2 (as it was an all "side missions" game) I really feel the absence of a decent journey diary like the one presents in DA... It will be helpfull to track the dialogue, the choices who is who etc...



I vote for implement it in ME3

[javierabegazo]

Discuss in the sticky please. If you want to keep compiling this info, the Groups area is a good place to do it.

[javierabegazo]

I can always add that link to the very top of the sticky as well