83 réponses à ce sujet

[mosor]

In real life, manned space travel is run by the air force by every country and use their country's air force ranks. I just find it interesting that in almost every science fiction series they go navy rather than air force.

[Dethateer]

Well, it might have something to do with the whole naval combat thing, I guess, though I find it odd too. Probably the navy being re-purposed to sail the stars instead of the seas.

[SSV Enterprise]

Ask the writers of Star Trek, they apparently started the trend.

[JKoopman]

Well at present manned space travel is also little more than a few people in a paper thin pod that go up for a bit and then come back down. Once we achieve a level of technology like you see in scifi with large, heavily armed and armored permanent space vessels with functionality and crews similar to those of modern Navy cruisers, carriers and destroyers it makes a bit more sense for the Navy and it's ranks to be adapted.

[AlanC9]

mosor wrote...

In real life, manned space travel is run by the air force by every country and use their country's air force ranks.

This is simply false. In the USA space travel is run by a civilian agency. A  fair number of US astronauts are Navy, and others are civilians.

[mosor]

AlanC9 wrote...

mosor wrote...

In real life, manned space travel is run by the air force by every country and use their country's air force ranks.

This is simply false. In the USA space travel is run by a civilian agency. A  fair number of US astronauts are Navy, and others are civilians.

Sorry to say, but you're wrong. The military operations are run by the air force.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Space_Command

[SuperMedbh]

Alan Shepard (first American in space) was Navy, John Glenn (first American to orbit) was a Marine, Neil Armstrong (forgot what he did) was Navy, then later a civilian test pilot before joining NASA. And as Alan said, NASA is a civilian part of the US government.


Edit:  Oh.  Well, then, I stand corrected.  Sounds like the Air Force has already cornered the military side of the house.  Would not be surprised if there are the usual departmental wranglings in the future (iirc, the Army didn't want the Air Force to split off in the day, and the Navy insisted on its own pilots for carriers).  But for now, if you put guns on your shuttle, the Air Force will claim it as theirs.

Modifié par SuperMedbh, 14 mai 2010 - 06:46 .

[masterthehero]

In Sci Fi I'm sure it just has to do with the fact that when you're commanding big battle cruisers that blast each other from a distance, it's similar to naval warfare but in space.



However, since we in real life are not using space cruiser to blast each other to bits, protocol for ranks in those types of engagements haven't even been decided yet!

[AlanC9]

mosor wrote...

Sorry to say, but you're wrong. The military operations are run by the air force.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Space_Command

That's not a manned spaceflight program. When we actually have manned military spacecraft,  we'll see who's running that show.

[Wildecker]

I've read the explanation that the commanding officer of a starship spends most of his time out of contact with the higher authorities, like the Navy captains from the age of sail. So he's the highest authority on his craft, right under God Himself. Therefore, Navy ranks.

[SSV Enterprise]

SuperMedbh wrote...

Neil Armstrong (forgot what he did)

Are you SERIOUS?!!

Modifié par SSV Enterprise, 14 mai 2010 - 07:22 .

[mosor]

AlanC9 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Sorry to say, but you're wrong. The military operations are run by the air force.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Space_Command

That's not a manned spaceflight program. When we actually have manned military spacecraft,  we'll see who's running that show.

Probably not the navy, considering the Navy has little to do with the space program other than providing some pilots, while the Air Force is heavily involved.

[Xpheyel]

Space is an Ocean.

[AlanC9]

The Air Force doesn't run much of the space program. But I agree they'll try to run the show.



Of course, the Air Force itself might be abolished before we get manned military spacecraft. We're going to outlive the era of manned combat flight, and there isn't really a good case for an independent air force now that strategic bombing is out of fashion.

[Bebbe777]

Since todays spacecraft are more like aircraft and that they are airborne it falls to the air force since they use the technology and it is close to them.
If we would get to the point were we actually have ships and by that I mean cruisers we would probably create a new military branch just for space and that one may use navy ranks since navigation and combat in a spaceship resembles a submarine.

Modifié par Bebbe777, 14 mai 2010 - 08:37 .

[Master Smurf]

Bebbe777 wrote...

Since todays spacecraft are more like aircraft and that they are airborne it falls to the air force since they use the technology and it is closed to them.
If we would get to the point were we actually have ships and by that I mean cruisers we would probably create a new military branch just for space and that one may use navy ranks since navigation and combat in a spaceship resembles a submarine.

Think that is the nail on the head.

 

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Yep, a submarine is basicly a spaceship...though you'd have to modify it's propulsion and it's built more for pressure than vaccuum and external radiation protection. Those and other factors aside, submarines are the first thing that come to mind for me when talking about spaceships for a very good list of reasons. Also the command structure surrounding naval ships fits those around a large space faring vessel.

[PillarBiter]

I think because space combat is more akin to seabattles of old (in terms of strategy, crew, ...) then to aerial battles.

[SSV Enterprise]

AlanC9 wrote...

Of course, the Air Force itself might be abolished before we get manned military spacecraft. We're going to outlive the era of manned combat flight, and there isn't really a good case for an independent air force now that strategic bombing is out of fashion.

Automatic unmanned aircraft cannot match the resourcefulness and flexibility of a human pilot, and remote control aircraft run the risk of being hacked or jammed somehow.  Human pilots may operate alongside automated aircraft, but they won't pass into obsolesence.

And strategic bombing isn't out of fashion, it's just not used often because the last full-scale war was ages ago.  However, even for small wars it's not uncommon:  The very first action of the Iraq war was an air strike on Baghdad.

[Nivenus]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

From a logical point of view, naval organisation seems more appropriate, as the commonly displayed layout of space-forces look more like naval flotillas than aircraft squadrons. There are lots of fighters throughout the SciFi realms, though those remind more to aircraft-carriers than standard airforce.
Thus, why change the airforce's chain of command when you can easily adept the navy one!?

It might appear to make sense but it actually doesn't. Space combat will be most likely very different from both naval combat and air combat, but air combat is slightly more similar simply on the basis that they have experience with three-dimensional thinking and other aspects of flight that would play into spaceflight (note that this doesn't mean starfighters are a likely focus of space combat - they're not). However, in the United States, the Air Force's stated mission is to fight in air and space (as well as cyberspace). In Russia, they actually have a separate division of their military for space operations.

[kraze07]

mosor wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Sorry to say, but you're wrong. The military operations are run by the air force.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Space_Command

That's not a manned spaceflight program. When we actually have manned military spacecraft,  we'll see who's running that show.

Probably not the navy, considering the Navy has little to do with the space program other than providing some pilots, while the Air Force is heavily involved.

The Air Force isn't actually heavily involved in Space operations. I've been to the Space Command they have in Los Angeles. Like the wiki said they are mainly involved in launching satelites and providing facilities and safety to agencies like NASA for their operations. Major Navies not only specialize in naval combat, but are capable of air, land, and cyber warfare so it's only logical that they'd be involved in space warfare too when we get to that point and they'd probably be the most qualified for the job seeing as how they operate today.

[kraze07]

Nivenus wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

From a logical point of view, naval organisation seems more appropriate, as the commonly displayed layout of space-forces look more like naval flotillas than aircraft squadrons. There are lots of fighters throughout the SciFi realms, though those remind more to aircraft-carriers than standard airforce.
Thus, why change the airforce's chain of command when you can easily adept the navy one!?

It might appear to make sense but it actually doesn't. Space combat will be most likely very different from both naval combat and air combat, but air combat is slightly more similar simply on the basis that they have experience with three-dimensional thinking and other aspects of flight that would play into spaceflight (note that this doesn't mean starfighters are a likely focus of space combat - they're not). However, in the United States, the Air Force's stated mission is to fight in air and space (as well as cyberspace). In Russia, they actually have a separate division of their military for space operations.

I can't speak for other nations, but the US Navy is nearly just as capable as the Air Force at air warfare. You have to remember all those carriers were built for a reason and you better believe Uncle Sam is putting them to use. And the space combat would actually be similar to naval combat seeing as how subs operate in three dimensions and war in space would involve long distance battles, which is the backbone of modern Naval combat. You better believe something like a space cruiser would have defenses for a small starfighter.

[VA_FyreHeart]

There are many more parallels between space combat and naval combat (esp. Submarine combat, since it has enclosed spaces, pressurization, and three dimensions) than space and air.



However, if it makes you feel better, MY SF stories use a variation on Air Force ranks.