1013 réponses à ce sujet

[GothamLord]

NKKKK wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Actually I don't like the alliance either after hearing how they treated Joker and Chakwas. I didn't say that Cerberus was completely stupid, its just that most of the cells you know about, you know about them because you have to save any survivor's ass from the can of angry mutant worms they opened.

Well seeing as Cerberus is really still part of the Alliance.....

Ceberus is IN the Alliance, not part of it, just IN.

Cerberus is still PART of the Alliance Military.    There is that better for you??

[NKKKK]

GothamLord wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

That's the price of unethical science, still. They revived you, they have a lot of resources. people everywhere. They aren't inept at all, it just so happens that their biggest mistakes are shown onscreen.

Cerberus is not an inept orginization, anyone claiming otherwise is just trying to start a pointless argument just to be different.

Hence, Troll thread.

Will you stop with the Troll thread crap?   Regardless if the OP planned on it being one, for the most part its turned into a rather fruitful and meaningful thread.   You continuing to yammer on calling it a troll thread is dragging back down its value.

U mad?

Edit: They're not part of the Alliance military, they just have it infiltrated.

Modifié par NKKKK, 17 mai 2010 - 05:06 .

[GothamLord]

NKKKK wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

That's the price of unethical science, still. They revived you, they have a lot of resources. people everywhere. They aren't inept at all, it just so happens that their biggest mistakes are shown onscreen.

Cerberus is not an inept orginization, anyone claiming otherwise is just trying to start a pointless argument just to be different.

Hence, Troll thread.

Will you stop with the Troll thread crap?   Regardless if the OP planned on it being one, for the most part its turned into a rather fruitful and meaningful thread.   You continuing to yammer on calling it a troll thread is dragging back down its value.

U mad?

Only if you continue to ramble on pointlessly and ruin the thread.  Not if you add something constructive to the debate.

[Sajuro]

NKKKK wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

That's the price of unethical science, still. They revived you, they have a lot of resources. people everywhere. They aren't inept at all, it just so happens that their biggest mistakes are shown onscreen.

Cerberus is not an inept orginization, anyone claiming otherwise is just trying to start a pointless argument just to be different.

Hence, Troll thread.

Will you stop with the Troll thread crap?   Regardless if the OP planned on it being one, for the most part its turned into a rather fruitful and meaningful thread.   You continuing to yammer on calling it a troll thread is dragging back down its value.

U mad?

Don't get mad at NK^4, he just doesn't let fact get in the way of a good story

[NKKKK]

GothamLord wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

That's the price of unethical science, still. They revived you, they have a lot of resources. people everywhere. They aren't inept at all, it just so happens that their biggest mistakes are shown onscreen.

Cerberus is not an inept orginization, anyone claiming otherwise is just trying to start a pointless argument just to be different.

Hence, Troll thread.

Will you stop with the Troll thread crap?   Regardless if the OP planned on it being one, for the most part its turned into a rather fruitful and meaningful thread.   You continuing to yammer on calling it a troll thread is dragging back down its value.

U mad?

Only if you continue to ramble on pointlessly and ruin the thread.  Not if you add something constructive to the debate.

Lol u mad.

Edit: Regardless of whether they used to be part of the alliance, Cerberus is indepedent now. They have infiltrators in the Alliance though.

Modifié par NKKKK, 17 mai 2010 - 05:09 .

[Sajuro]

NKKKK wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

That's the price of unethical science, still. They revived you, they have a lot of resources. people everywhere. They aren't inept at all, it just so happens that their biggest mistakes are shown onscreen.

Cerberus is not an inept orginization, anyone claiming otherwise is just trying to start a pointless argument just to be different.

Hence, Troll thread.

Will you stop with the Troll thread crap?   Regardless if the OP planned on it being one, for the most part its turned into a rather fruitful and meaningful thread.   You continuing to yammer on calling it a troll thread is dragging back down its value.

U mad?

Only if you continue to ramble on pointlessly and ruin the thread.  Not if you add something constructive to the debate.

Lol u mad.

Edit: Regardless of whether they used to be part of the alliance, Cerberus is indepedent now. They have infiltrators in the Alliance though.

maybe that's what they'd like you to think, since a good black ops organization would be able to operate so its government could cut all ties with it if they royally screw up.

[NKKKK]

Uh no, Cerberus isn't part of the Alliance, period.

[GothamLord]

NKKKK wrote...

Regardless of whether they used to be part of the alliance, Cerberus is indepedent now. They have infiltrators in the Alliance though.

I believe TIM was given a very loose leash and may be using resources for outside interests as well now, but its very possible and likely that Cerberus is still firmly attached to the Alliance.  Your going on who's word? Hackett's??  Its called plausible deniability.  If you play connect the dots with various information in both games they are far from indepedant.  Feel free to live in that security bubble though if you want.   

[Sajuro]

Also Hackett is high up, but surely there are security clearances above him. So as far as he knows Cerberus is cut off.

[NKKKK]

Now you're both just paranoid retards. Cerberus is not part of the alliance at the events of both Mass Effect games.

[Sajuro]

NKKKK wrote...

Now you're both just paranoid retards. Cerberus is not part of the alliance at the events of both Mass Effect games.

Get that from word of god, or are you afraid of being an "alliance butthurt" by association?

[GothamLord]

NKKKK wrote...

Now you're both just paranoid retards. Cerberus is not part of the alliance at the events of both Mass Effect games.

Paranoid retards?? LOL   You're showing being more paranoid by trying to deny the possibility, and trying to think the Alliance wouldnt approve experiments and research that Cerberus is known for.  Akuze, Yandoa and several other major Cerberus events took place YEARS ago while they were still part of the Alliance and this whole *rogue* claim was made.     

Modifié par GothamLord, 17 mai 2010 - 05:27 .

[NKKKK]

Sajuro wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

Now you're both just paranoid retards. Cerberus is not part of the alliance at the events of both Mass Effect games.

Get that from word of god, or are you afraid of being an "alliance butthurt" by association?

Nop, I'm just stating my point that Cerberus is not inept and currently not part of the alliance, I wouldn't be "alliance butthurt" if i war arguing for Cerberus' efficiency, which I am.

Edit: Religion and God is a lie.

Modifié par NKKKK, 17 mai 2010 - 05:28 .

[Sajuro]

Again, the Alliance only said they went rogue after Cerberus was found out by Shepard. They are basically like the Third Echelon of Mass Effect that the Alliance will disavow any and all knowledge of their operations if they are asked but ultimately it is still the Alliance directing them from high up

[NKKKK]

Who said Cerberus ties was cut and not cut it themselves? Besides some of that stuff was retconned

Edit: Im going to sleep, Sajuro, your mom was a screamer last night.

Modifié par NKKKK, 17 mai 2010 - 05:36 .

[GothamLord]

NKKKK wrote...

Who said Cerberus ties was cut and not cut it themselves? Besides some of that stuff was retconned

Cerberus cutting ties to the Alliance willingly would be counter productive to its whole purpose and objectives.   And please by all means  give examples of these *retcons*

Modifié par GothamLord, 17 mai 2010 - 05:36 .

[Sajuro]

Because TIM wouldn't cut himself off from such a useful resource, and he knows they wouldn't cut him since he probably has dirty secrets on the top brass of the alliance so he basically is free with all the privileges of having a government backing.

[NKKKK]

Read the edit I made, that applied to you too Gotham Lord.

Also for plot changes, ask Bioware. Cerberus cutting ties to the Alliance makes more sense because the Alliance was starting to become pussified with appeasements to the Citadel (not so much at the Batarians mind you), They don't need the alliance, Cerberus can and does find funding elsewhere. Donations and such form rich supporters, having the Terra Firma Party under their command such.

They disagreed, Cerberus gave the Alliance a sincere **** you.

Modifié par NKKKK, 17 mai 2010 - 05:40 .

[GothamLord]

NKKKK wrote...

Edit: Im going to sleep, Sajuro, your mom was a screamer last night.

" So was your father in the prison shower yesterday."


Seriously are we going to be this childish???

[AntiChri5]

Do i get to pass out the tinfoil hats now?

[GothamLord]

NKKKK wrote...

Read the edit I made, that applied to you too Gotham Lord.

Also for plot changes, ask Bioware. Cerberus cutting ties to the Alliance makes more sense because the Alliance was starting to become pussified with appeasements to the Citadel (not so much at the Batarians mind you), They don't need the alliance, Cerberus can and does find funding elsewhere. Donations and such form rich supporters, having the Terra Firma Party under their command such.

They disagreed, Cerberus gave the Alliance a sincere **** you.

The Alliance wasnt getting "pussified"    Read the novels    The Council tried to set all kinds of restrictions on the Alliance, when the AI research came out of the bag.  Anita Goyle told them to stick it.   

Oh yes  Terra Firma a political party in open political kickback scandals.  Thats so much better than have the entire Alliance Military funding you.   Cerberus connections with Terra Firma are with Charles Saracino because he's someone he can easily puppet. 

Modifié par GothamLord, 17 mai 2010 - 05:54 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

Again, the Alliance only said they went rogue after Cerberus was found out by Shepard. They are basically like the Third Echelon of Mass Effect that the Alliance will disavow any and all knowledge of their operations if they are asked but ultimately it is still the Alliance directing them from high up

Funny how you support this but deny Cerberus efficiency. If the Alliance thought Cerberus was inept, they'd just shut them down. But as far as the "screw ups" go, Cerberus is still around and in the first line of defence.

They are tasked with pushing the limit, which involves regular screw ups. It's practically planned. Yet, all the benefits go to the Alliance, and are never spoken off as Cerberus accopmlishements. The screw ups, BTW, are also not made common knowledge. You have to be at least an Eclipse merc captain to even know about Cerberus existence, and in that case you fear them so much as to order immediate pesonnel evacuation and stockpiles destruction when you believe there is a Cerberus ship in orbit.

Also most screw ups come from defection of the individuals Cerberus employs.  It's the dowside of the high reward aims, known as high risk. [Heavy risk, but the priiize!] The more resourceful the induvidual is the more prone he/she is to greed, or pride, or simple insubordination, which all may lead to defection. And TIM must always have a contingency plan and strict security protocol in effect.

The only Cerberus failures are the loss of Gillian Grayson and the "Kahoku cell". The latter depends on whether YOU chose to do those missions or not. Even if you did them, most probably the cell was already being in the dismantling stage at the time, because it had been compromised.

Cerberus may not be a part of the Alliance government on paper, but it's a part of the Alliance political system. RAND Corp, Boeing and Halliburton aren't parts of the US government, but today US is unimaginable without them. Who says some other political body (which is formed by corporate capital, instead of social contract, BTW) in the future can't "outsource" some intelligence and questionable research activities?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 mai 2010 - 06:48 .

[GothamLord]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The are tasked with pushing the limit, which involves regular screw ups. It's practically planned. Yet, all the benefits go to the Alliance, and are never spoken off as Cerberus accopmlishements. The screw ups, BTW, are also not made common knowledge. You have to be at least an Eclipse merc captain to even know about Cerberus existence, and in that case you fear them so much as to order immediate pesonnel evacuation and stockpiles destruction when you believe there is a Cerberus ship in orbit.

Also most screw ups come from defection of the individuals Cerberus employes.  It's the dowside of the high reward aims, know as high risk. [Heavy risk, but the priiize!] The more resourceful the induvidual is the more prone he/she is to greed, or pride, or simple insubordination, which all may lead to defection. And Tim must always have a contingency plan and strict security protocol in effect.

Key points highlighted and agreed.

The only Cerberus failures are the loss of Gillian Grayson and the "Kahoku cell". The later depends on whether YOU chose to do those missions or not. Even if you did them, most probably the cell was already being in the dismatling stage at the time, because it had been compromised.

Hell Gillian isnt even really a failure.  The biotic research they did with her is still useable information.  Gillian isnt even really *lost*    They know shes with the Quarians. Its just a matter of waiting it out until shes more easily re-obtained.   What TIM plans on doing with Paul could likely also be used as a means to draw Gillian back out. We have to wait to see how that plays out though.   As for Kahoku, how much of a failure it really is depends on where the Shadow Broker stands with the Alliance.  Keeping the info/forwarding it to the Alliance it can easily be gobbled back up by Cerberus units in the ranks.  Giving it to the Shadow Broker may or not be a issue.

People always pay to get info from the Shadow Broker. I'm sure people can pay just as much to keep information a secret or even harder to find.  The Alliance/Cerberus has a large deep pocket.

Modifié par GothamLord, 17 mai 2010 - 06:37 .

[Zulu_DFA]

GothamLord wrote...

People always pay to get info from the Shadow Broker. I'm sure people can pay just as much to keep information a secret or even harder to find.  The Alliance/Cerberus has a large deep pocket.

What if TSB actually posessed information on Cerberus "rogue" status being faked, and Kahoku got himself killed because his personal savings were not enough to buy the whole truth in one package!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 mai 2010 - 06:56 .

[GothamLord]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

People always pay to get info from the Shadow Broker. I'm sure people can pay just as much to keep information a secret or even harder to find.  The Alliance/Cerberus has a large deep pocket.

What if TSB actually posessed information on Cerberus "rogue" status being faked, and Kahoku got himself killed because his personal savings were not enough to buy the whole truth in one package!

Kahoku became a security issue, discovering the truth, and was most likely unwilling to keep quiet on it.  Thus he was terminated and given a proper military hero's burial . Heck the info found on Kahoku's body could be planted and all the info located on Nepheron a huge red herring and all the info faked as well.   Maybe a big *screw you* back to TSB for giving what he/she/it did to the Admiral in the first place if it gets back TSB's way. 

Modifié par GothamLord, 17 mai 2010 - 07:09 .