1013 réponses à ce sujet

[LuxDragon]

Cerberus isn't part of the Alliance or any government. Both the Alliance and the Citadel consider them an "avowed enemy" of the Council. (The asari councilor's words.)



If Alliance ever gets caught 'dealing' with Cerberus, the Council would have a field day destoying humanity since its considered "treason". (Asari councilor's words.)



Finally, Miranda say mentions that Cerberus is the answer to STG and asari commandos. When Shepard comments that those organizations are regulated by goverments, Miranda explains that Cerberus is privately funded with ONLY TIM in charge with no goverment ties.



In regards to the thread, I recall the movie "The Recruit".



Al Pacino: Our failures are known... our successes are not.



While we are aware of Cerberus' failures, mainly because we cause them as Shepard, we really have no idea what their successes are/were. So who know how dangerous or competant they really are.

[Pacifien]

GothamLord wrote...
Kahoku became a security issue, discovering the truth, and was most likely unwilling to keep quiet on it.  Thus he was terminated and given a proper military hero's burial . Heck the info found on Kahoku's body could be planted and all the info located on Nepheron a huge red herring and all the info faked as well.   Maybe a big *screw you* back to TSB for giving what he/she/it did to the Admiral in the first place if it gets back TSB's way. 

Not a fan of Occam's razor, I take it?

[GothamLord]

LuxDragon wrote...

Cerberus isn't part of the Alliance or any government. Both the Alliance and the Citadel consider them an "avowed enemy" of the Council. (The asari councilor's words.)

If Alliance ever gets caught 'dealing' with Cerberus, the Council would have a field day destoying humanity since its considered "treason". (Asari councilor's words.)

Of course the Alliance says Cerberus is the enemy in a public forum. For just the reasons you said. Admiting Cerberus is still connected to them would destroy the Alliance's standing with the Council. You really think the United States or any other major nation in the world is going to admit to even a quarter of the back room dealing and black ops they do on each other??

Finally, Miranda say mentions that Cerberus is the answer to STG and asari commandos. When Shepard comments that those organizations are regulated by goverments, Miranda explains that Cerberus is privately funded with ONLY TIM in charge with no goverment ties.

Miranda even with all her genetic modifications is hardly unexpendable.  She was sent with Shepard for a suicide mission afterall.  You really think she knows everything TIM does behind closed doors or who he talks to?? Just cause TIM tells her something doesnt make it true.  Hes a master of lies and half truths.

[GothamLord]

Pacifien wrote...

GothamLord wrote...
Kahoku became a security issue, discovering the truth, and was most likely unwilling to keep quiet on it.  Thus he was terminated and given a proper military hero's burial . Heck the info found on Kahoku's body could be planted and all the info located on Nepheron a huge red herring and all the info faked as well.   Maybe a big *screw you* back to TSB for giving what he/she/it did to the Admiral in the first place if it gets back TSB's way. 

Not a fan of Occam's razor, I take it?

What fun is that?  I like making onion theories.  Lots and lots of layers.     Cutting through them can make you cry but if you prepare them correctly that taste so sweet. 

[Zulu_DFA]

Pacifien wrote...

GothamLord wrote...
Kahoku became a security issue, discovering the truth, and was most likely unwilling to keep quiet on it.  Thus he was terminated and given a proper military hero's burial . Heck the info found on Kahoku's body could be planted and all the info located on Nepheron a huge red herring and all the info faked as well.   Maybe a big *screw you* back to TSB for giving what he/she/it did to the Admiral in the first place if it gets back TSB's way. 

Not a fan of Occam's razor, I take it?

Occam's Razor is the best friend of every conspirator. Whenever there is a security leak, Occam's Razor is invoked and the dangerous outsiders are ridiculed as tin foil hat morons. Cheap, easy and brilliant.

[GothamLord]

[Zulu_DFA]

GothamLord wrote...

AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

Now you make us "Cerberus IS Alliance" supporters look real bad!

[GothamLord]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

Now you make us "Cerberus IS Alliance" supporters look real bad!

But if people dont take me serious the cause is protected.   I DONT want people to believe it.   I want the Alliance to continue to do their *good work*         I must play the fool so that humanity can survive.   The best way to get people to think your lying to them is by telling them the truth.

Modifié par GothamLord, 17 mai 2010 - 07:46 .

[The Acid Angel]

Cerberus is hardly incompetent. Tim even tells you of every success important to your mission. That's the thing with using a single node cell network though, every success becomes a resource, and every resource gets passed along to whatever cell needs it most. Therefore every resource given to you by tim is the result of a cell's success.



Normandy, EDI, finding the location of former STG agents, the locations of all your former team members and several key members of your crew. Then on to finding the Normandy's wreckage, and when you're laying on that table dead as a doornail, how much of the Akuze and Dragon's Teeth research went into reviving you, do you think? Did any of the experiments on Jack and her compatriots go into repairing your biotic abilities (assuming you had them)? Locating a colony in distress before any serious rescue or investigation efforts have occurred, getting the information on Kaiden/Ashley's location to the collectors to allow for the prediction of their actions and then locating the ancient superweapon and derelict reaper working backwards from only the impact crater on a planet created 35 million years ago despite having to correct for gravitational drift on the planetary and galactic levels and then re-evaluate on a significantly smaller object in a an unknown state of repair with corrections for changes in course from the original weapon impact with limited theoretical knowledge of it's mass effect defenses which could have nullified or multiplied the final effect of impact. And then to have an entire science team ready to go, map and hopefully reverse engineer the damn thing as soon as you find it.



Quite frankly Cerberus is frighteningly competent and able, they have simply chosen to put those resources into areas that fail ungracefully. Even your own mission if failed would immediately result in the death of you, your entire team, and quite possibly tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. If Cerberus faced a rate of incompetency even approaching that of say the Alliance or C-Sec for instance, it would be completely unable to exist as an organization, especially due to their small number removing the kinds of redundancy that prevent us from seeing most of the Alliances major failures.



Of course, when your entire organization is built to withstand the failure of any given operation, it makes little sense to operate those projects conservatively.

[Zulu_DFA]

GothamLord wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

Now you make us "Cerberus IS Alliance" supporters look real bad!

But if people dont take me serious the cause is protected.   I DONT want people to believe it.   I want the Alliance to continue to do their *good work*         I must play the fool so that humanity can survive.   The best way to get people to think your lying to them is by telling them the truth.

And the greater the lie, the sooner people will believe in it.

Now what was it? Cerberus is part of the Alliance? NO! it's an abominable rogue spilter human supremasist terrorist group, forged by a power hungry despotic deceitful palpatine wannabe ultra rich madman, who is hated and eventually betrayed by every single of his followers, because anyway it's the only chance they get to survive their affiliation with Cerberus. However, after sneaking away with a hundred billion Alliance credits, TIM was able to plant his agents in every Alliance office and corrupt enough Alliance top staff to build a new type of starship. Oh, and all that come from TIM's paper clip royalties.

[GothamLord]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


And the greater the lie, the sooner people will believe in it.

Now what was it? Cerberus is part of the Alliance? NO! it's an abominable rogue spilter human supremasist terrorist group, forged by a power hungry despotic deceitful palpatine wannabe ultra rich madman, who is hated and eventually betrayed by every single of his followers, because anyway it's the only chance they get to survive their affiliation with Cerberus. However, after sneaking away with a hundred billion Alliance credits, TIM was able to plant his agents in every Alliance office and corrupt enough Alliance top staff to build a new type of starship. Oh, and all that come from TIM's paper clip royalties.

...and he hates puppies.   Hates them.   Cruella Devilla level animal cruelty.

[LadyAlekto]

soo ive read up to page8 will read further later



i so far think cerberus is just your plain old "society of mad scientists and megalomanic badasses" sure they might be backed by a lot of investors probably including alliance personal/officials/leader and so forth and i must say i always wanted to join cerberus in me1 (ok i just wanted a frikkin gorgon, harpy and freedom x for my adept, which is why i gave them to me after defeating each "rogue" cell) but i do personally support the "horrific experiments to see what happens" and on the moral side, id kill even 5000 more to cure something plaguing my species



i stay with cerberus, but tim should get become a bit better with his intel, i assumed the ship to be a trap as soon as i didnt saw any turian wrecks



and on the geth accident someone mentioned, ai became illegal AFTER the geth

[Pacifien]

ShadedPhoenix wrote...
and on the geth accident someone mentioned, ai became illegal AFTER the geth

But doesn't Tali mention the Quarians knew that AI research was illegal, which is why they only modified the Geth a little bit at a time? I think that's what made the Geth gaining sentience so worrisome, because the Quarians weren't looking to develop AI, but accidentally managed it anyway.

Though it does seem to make more sense that the Council would ban AI research after seeing what happened to the Quarians. If the ban was from before the Quarians, I wonder what the Council's reasoning for it was. Have there been other horrible experiences with AI in Council history?

[Sajuro]

GothamLord wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...


And the greater the lie, the sooner people will believe in it.

Now what was it? Cerberus is part of the Alliance? NO! it's an abominable rogue spilter human supremasist terrorist group, forged by a power hungry despotic deceitful palpatine wannabe ultra rich madman, who is hated and eventually betrayed by every single of his followers, because anyway it's the only chance they get to survive their affiliation with Cerberus. However, after sneaking away with a hundred billion Alliance credits, TIM was able to plant his agents in every Alliance office and corrupt enough Alliance top staff to build a new type of starship. Oh, and all that come from TIM's paper clip royalties.

...and he hates puppies.   Hates them.   Cruella Devilla level animal cruelty.

Bull****. He hates puppies so much that he makes Cruella Devilla look like M Effin PETA

[Sajuro]

Pacifien wrote...

ShadedPhoenix wrote...
and on the geth accident someone mentioned, ai became illegal AFTER the geth

But doesn't Tali mention the Quarians knew that AI research was illegal, which is why they only modified the Geth a little bit at a time? I think that's what made the Geth gaining sentience so worrisome, because the Quarians weren't looking to develop AI, but accidentally managed it anyway.

Though it does seem to make more sense that the Council would ban AI research after seeing what happened to the Quarians. If the ban was from before the Quarians, I wonder what the Council's reasoning for it was. Have there been other horrible experiences with AI in Council history?

HK-47 army perhaps?

[LadyAlekto]

According to codex entrys in me1, ai research was banned after the geth incident, got that after disabling the thief ai self destruct in that hanar's shop (where did all the hightech selling hanar go?)



Oh and ExoGeni is a Corporation led by Saren, cerberus just managed to buy some things off some corrupted/cerberus friendly scientists/boardpeople



I would rather believe Cerberus made MediGel, as that can be found everywhere, it has probably a good profit and can fund a bit

[Madman123456]

The Acid Angel wrote...

Cerberus is hardly incompetent. Tim even tells you of every success important to your mission. That's the thing with using a single node cell network though, every success becomes a resource, and every resource gets passed along to whatever cell needs it most. Therefore every resource given to you by tim is the result of a cell's success.

Normandy, EDI, finding the location of former STG agents, the locations of all your former team members and several key members of your crew. Then on to finding the Normandy's wreckage, and when you're laying on that table dead as a doornail, how much of the Akuze and Dragon's Teeth research went into reviving you, do you think? Did any of the experiments on Jack and her compatriots go into repairing your biotic abilities (assuming you had them)? Locating a colony in distress before any serious rescue or investigation efforts have occurred, getting the information on Kaiden/Ashley's location to the collectors to allow for the prediction of their actions and then locating the ancient superweapon and derelict reaper working backwards from only the impact crater on a planet created 35 million years ago despite having to correct for gravitational drift on the planetary and galactic levels and then re-evaluate on a significantly smaller object in a an unknown state of repair with corrections for changes in course from the original weapon impact with limited theoretical knowledge of it's mass effect defenses which could have nullified or multiplied the final effect of impact. And then to have an entire science team ready to go, map and hopefully reverse engineer the damn thing as soon as you find it.

Quite frankly Cerberus is frighteningly competent and able, they have simply chosen to put those resources into areas that fail ungracefully. Even your own mission if failed would immediately result in the death of you, your entire team, and quite possibly tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. If Cerberus faced a rate of incompetency even approaching that of say the Alliance or C-Sec for instance, it would be completely unable to exist as an organization, especially due to their small number removing the kinds of redundancy that prevent us from seeing most of the Alliances major failures.

Of course, when your entire organization is built to withstand the failure of any given operation, it makes little sense to operate those projects conservatively.

Plot Contrivances don't count

Well ok, resurrecting Shepard is the biggest thing Medicine could accomplish. Unless someone somehow got shepards corpse right after the ME2 intro ends, and i mean right after that, seconds count there, to put Shepard in a super efficient Stasis Field or something, there would be very little to resurrect.
After Minutes without oxygen, neural Pathways in the Brain will degrade so much that there isn't anything left. Was this Pathway leading there? Or there? Was there even a pathway?

Whatever, let's just believe that there was someone there to capture Shepard and put him in the Freezer.
Then i'd have to say that they did a poor Job when showing shepards veins. Those show signs of decay. Shepard was a rotten corpse with enough meat on its Bones for one and a half Chicken Mc Nugget? Oh well.

If Shepards corpse was retrieved before the Neural Pathways degraded so much that there's nothing left to recreate, no matter how superior the technology, resurrecting him shouldn't take that much time and Money. Unless, well, someone is incompetent.

Now that i have explained that away: Mording wasn't that hard to find. He didn't change his name (his Pupil in the loyalty quest calls him Mordin) and even that scared Human in the locked Appartment in Omega thinks "he must have had some military training, maybe salarian STG or Something.". Hardly a Secret. His Work was a Secret, his Identity was apparently not.

Finding Okeer wasn't that hard, all Krogan hate him apparently and he provided enough cannonfodder Krogan for the Blue Suns on that Planet. So much so that even that lowly Grunt knew who Okeer was.

Finding Kasumi seems to be difficult, but it is not. Buy some random Object, have this and that rich Cerberus sympathyser act like he has a special emotional onnection to it and then have some other rich guy search for a way to steal it. The more Security cerberus puts into it the more likely it will be that the best thief shows up. The thing to be stolen just needs to have a note in it asking to join Cerberus
Plus, Cerberus gets to test and improve their security measures against thieves ;D

Tali isn't exactly hard to find. Put a Bug anywhere on those crappy Ships and the Transmissions of it will be dissmissed as white Noise.

How to find Thane? Well, it's a bit like Kasumi, this time one rich guy will act like he wants one of his Rivals dead. Plus, Cerberus can have someone killed they actually want killed. But then again, i fully expect them to test their security measures with this one and have some poor Sucker killed.



So, Cerberus gets very little Credit for resurrecting Shepard and finding the teammembers.
I will give them Credit for the Normandy though. Even if one would assume that they just stole the Plans and Blueprints for the original Normandy, this is still quite a feat.



Overall, Cerberus still gets the "Incompetent Fools of the Galaxy" Award for not being able to control whats going on inside their Cells. Even with todays Technology, we have security Measures that would have prevented the outbreak of the Rachni, Husk and thorian Creeper Experiments. We call them "Doors". We have radiation proof steel bunker Gatesystems in particle accelerator Installations. The Technology isn't that difficult to use.
And Cerberus has even better Technology, they had impenetrable Forcefields in the first game. If all else fails, there should be a self destruct mechanism to prevent further damage. Even the moronic fools at Binary Helix on Noveria had something like that.

[Zulu_DFA]

ShadedPhoenix wrote...
Oh and ExoGeni is a Corporation led by Saren,

What?

ExoGeni is an exclusively Human corporation dealing in colonization of the Alliance space and searching for alien artifacts.

Feros was an ExoGeni enterprise. And Saren blew it all up with his Geth to get to the Thorian.

Saren was a major shareholder of Binary Helix. A joint capital company dealing with genetic research on Noveria.

The Medigel was developed by Sirta Foundation even before the discovery of the Prothean ruins on Mars. Which means Cerberus was not around... But the pesky aliens stole its secret and payed Sirta nothing. That's why Sirta has been having hard times lately and a single biotic terrorist attack is enough to bankrupt it. Which makes Sirta employees and shareholders quite sympathetic with Cerberus agenda.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 17 mai 2010 - 06:46 .

[LadyAlekto]

the binhex exogeni mixup i admit (shame on me how did i let that happen)



but i havent seen a wreck in any of the almost 5 finished playthroughs during the cutscene



and nope, ai research was not ilelgal, restriced and strongly controlled but not illegal, the geht uprising made quantum box ai illegal (tho no one seems to give a **** about it)

[KalReegarVasNeema]

I99I Dragoon wrote...

Don't worry, OP. It aint a troll thread just at NKKKK's recent monstrosity thread.

Back on topic, I believe Cerberus has indeed messed up a few times, albeit a LOT of times. Makes you wonder: Since Miranda said Cerberus is there for the advancement of the human race, what accomplishments have they made? I mean, besides Shepard.

We've only seen their failures, their successes don't get found out. Look at ascension, for years they worked with the girl and for years no one knew. In the beginning they assassinate an important political figure, and no one was the wiser. What else has Cerberus accomplished we don't know about? It's said that Cerberus controls a large amount of government officials, as well as having infinite resources and inspire fear into the hearts of his people. In short, if you know about it Cerberus either wanted you to know about it or failed.

[Sajuro]

Madman123456 wrote...



Overall, Cerberus still gets the "Incompetent Fools of the Galaxy" Award for not being able to control whats going on inside their Cells. Even with todays Technology, we have security Measures that would have prevented the outbreak of the Rachni, Husk and thorian Creeper Experiments. We call them "Doors". We have radiation proof steel bunker Gatesystems in particle accelerator Installations. The Technology isn't that difficult to use.
And Cerberus has even better Technology, they had impenetrable Forcefields in the first game. If all else fails, there should be a self destruct mechanism to prevent further damage. Even the moronic fools at Binary Helix on Noveria had something like that.

What I had in mind when I called them inept

[NKKKK]

Lol

[Lumikki]

I see Cerberus like business organisations, who has gone they own ways with they own armies. Cerberus don't care about system alliance at all, they have they own goals for humans.

I did not see any evidence in ME1 suggesting that cerberus was making Shepards goal more difficult. I think it was other way around, Shepard was making cerberus situation difficult, because behave of system alliance. System Alliance sees them as terroris and with good reasons. How ever, to look situation and what it really is, can be different.

Cerberus did alot for Shepard in ME2 and they organisation is very powerfull. How ever, that doens't mean Shepard have to believe or trust to cerberus. It's more like both have same goal for moment, what is stop the reapers. Why not then do it with System Alliance or Council? Because they don't even believe that reapers exist. They don't give resource to the fight. Even hole ME1 was in they eyes about Saren, not about reapers.

Modifié par Lumikki, 18 mai 2010 - 04:03 .

[Teknor]

NKKKK wrote...

Lol

What's so funny ?