1013 réponses à ce sujet

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

Ah the Paul Reiser school of villainy.



"A dangerous alien life form you say? I wonder how I can market this?"

"But it's killed all the research staff"

"I know, just think of the military applications"

"But it bleeds acid, lays thousands of eggs and eats whole civilizations"

"SO WE'LL PUT A WARNING LABEL ON IT. JUST GET ME MORE OF THEM."

[Sajuro]

Cerberus profit model

Turn Colony into husks

?????

Profit!

[Dean_the_Young]

Exactly.



We don't know what the ????? is, but we do know that Cerberus profits, and profits quite well at that.



Sort of like that magic box that plays video games.





Microsoft Profit Mode



Give players boxes which frequently red ring



?????



Profit!

[Sajuro]

ah, touche. I was meaning to Invoke the Umbrella Corportation

[Dean_the_Young]

Ah, but Microsoft is so much older (and eviler) than Umbrella!

Even Umbrella (did) more than enough right to become a major corporation capable of doing such research.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 21 mai 2010 - 02:19 .

[Sajuro]

yes but they, like cerberus, seemed to have failed in the thinking through of some of their less successful business ventures. Okay, sure you can send a heavily armed team in to take a deadly virus away from a paranoid and unstable scientist, but wouldn't it have been better to get the in house treacherous bastard (Wesker) to take out birkin and get the virus.

and yes, you can turn a whole colony into husks... but what happens after that?

[Dean_the_Young]

Who says something has to happen after? Most exploratory experiments aren't aimed for an after, but for studying the during.



Without knowing what they were trying to do or learn, you can't argue they didn't get anything from it. The fact that Cerberus is a highly successful organization rather infers they do get a lot from their experiments, no matter how cartoony they are presented.

[Sajuro]

Well, at least we never got a scientist flying off saying "Grrrr Shepard, I'll get you next time!"

Edit: and I meant after like, what are your plans to clean it up? Since I'm assuming most organizations would like to cover up horrible expiriments. How hard would it be to plant evidence of Batarian slavers?

Modifié par Sajuro, 21 mai 2010 - 04:40 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

Cerberus profit model
Turn Colony into husks
?????
Profit!

Cerberus did not turn the Colony into husks.

http://social.biowar...5/index/2678749

[Nightwriter]

Oh, what does it matter? They were experimenting on husks. Shepard even says when you're talking to Miranda, "I've been to your bases. I've seen your monsters - you were using Thorian creepers, rachni, husks..."

[Zulu_DFA]

Nightwriter wrote...

Oh, what does it matter? They were experimenting on husks. Shepard even says when you're talking to Miranda, "I've been to your bases. I've seen your monsters - you were using Thorian creepers, rachni, husks..."

Shepard is delusional. He even thinks his guns need something called thermal clips.

[Arijharn]

Nightwriter wrote...

Oh, what does it matter? They were experimenting on husks. Shepard even says when you're talking to Miranda, "I've been to your bases. I've seen your monsters - you were using Thorian creepers, rachni, husks..."

I never really understood this argument to be perfectly honest. They aren't sentient creatures (you may argue that rachni are but:) and they aren't human. I don't think of myself as anti-alien at all (generally I favour interspecies cooperation) but all those could be tasked to aid human development/safety and in the end that's what Cerberus is all about.

Experimenting on husks (being former humans) isn't an ammoral thing at all in my mind, they aren't human anymore, and you aren't going to force indoctrinate people since it's counter-intuitive to their stated goals. If however, they could 'free' a husk and turn it on it's compatriots then I think the technology needed to do that would be useful. Of  course, I'm just arguing supposition though.

[Nightwriter]

Uarrrgghh.  Three responses to my post at once. I don't know which to respond to.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 21 mai 2010 - 10:58 .

[Arijharn]

Nightwriter wrote...

Uarrrgghh.  Three responses to my post at once. I don't know which to respond to.

ALL OF THEM!

[Nightwriter]

Okay...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Shepard is delusional. He even thinks his guns need something called thermal clips.

They keep the demons away.

Shandepared wrote...

What's that got to do with anything?

I don't know. It just proves that Cerberus was experimenting on husks, which was all I cared about.

Arijharn wrote...

I never really understood this argument to be perfectly honest. They aren't sentient creatures (you may argue that rachni are but:) and they aren't human. I don't think of myself as anti-alien at all (generally I favour interspecies cooperation) but all those could be tasked to aid human development/safety and in the end that's what Cerberus is all about.

Experimenting on husks (being former humans) isn't an ammoral thing at all in my mind, they aren't human anymore, and you aren't going to force indoctrinate people since it's counter-intuitive to their stated goals. If however, they could 'free' a husk and turn it on it's compatriots then I think the technology needed to do that would be useful. Of  course, I'm just arguing supposition though.

I guess it would be different if every time I ran into husk, husk spikes, or husk experimentation there wasn’t death and destruction and abominations running around everywhere in total chaos and ruin. I think I’ve come to associate them with just plain trouble. Everything anyone does with them is wrong.

I’ve developed an aversion to them now. All I can think is kill it, kill it! I think I'll need to see a husk experiment go right before I can judge properly, with an objective mind. Fair?

[Arijharn]

Nightwriter wrote...
I guess it would be different if every time I ran into husk, husk spikes, or husk experimentation there wasn’t death and destruction and abominations running around everywhere in total chaos and ruin. I think I’ve come to associate them with just plain trouble. Everything anyone does with them is wrong.

I’ve developed an aversion to them now. All I can think is kill it, kill it! I think I'll need to see a husk experiment go right before I can judge properly, with an objective mind. Fair?

Heh, I guess it's as fair as I can expect anyone to get

The main crux I suppose of my argument is the same as Miranda's: If husks experimentation could be continued without someone getting indoctrinated on the way, if the alliance could 'manufacture' them en masse without you know, having to kill someone on the way, then hell yeah they could be useful as shock troops (although, surely there would be cheaper ways to 'mass produce inexpensive shock troopers').

Better yet, to study indoctrination itself would help nullify the Reapers largest weapon against organics (...other than Thanix weapons and stupidly powerful mass effect shields etc). Given the threat to which the Reapers represent to not just humanity but to all space-faring species, the concept that any species to just ignore the threat is kinda, well... moronic really (especially to an organisation that admits to their existence.

[Nightwriter]

Seeing that soldier or colonist or whoever put on that spike while he was still alive was a powerful image. I try to remember that when I'm playing Shepard, that Shepard is a soldier who has seen this firsthand. I think that would be important.

It's hard to not feel strong negative emotions toward husks in general after you've seen something that has such strong emotional association.

But really, yes, I agree with you. If I could make husks without killing people I'd do it, it's an advantage and we need advantages. We need to study indoctrination too, like it or not, but the problem is that it's so dangerous and risky it's unclear if we could really do it without causing more damage than we'd prevent. Ditto for husks, really.

[Asheer_Khan]

I watched once on Youtube how Miranda start panicked when she confront returned from Cerberus "care" Veetor.

I never let them to take Veetor so tube was only one source to see that but after watching that video i am more that sure now that Cerberus "doctors" didn't ask Veetor abut events on F. Progress but they want to known what happened whit Gillian after first Cerberus attack on Flotilla.

I really wonder if Mr Walters is truly proud of what he created....

To be honest... now i cursed day when i bought ME 2 leading by idiotic  (as surfaced now)  trust in Bioware's quality of game creations despite too many previous warnings instead of waiting month or two and actually learn truth about this game...

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 21 mai 2010 - 11:39 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

I watched once on Youtube how Miranda start panicked when she confront returned from Cerberus "care" Veetor.

Got link? 

[Dean_the_Young]

If you return to the Migrant Fleet with either Cerberus person, they get defensive at the state of Veetor and insist he was already broken when they got to him.



Which is pretty much true.



There's nothing suggesting torture as much as harsh questions from unsympathetic Cerberus docs who looked at his body and not his mind. Veetor's problems were pyschological, not physical.



There's certainly nothing to support in any way that Cerberus did not ask him about Freedom's Progress, and anything about Gillian.



Khan is just stuck on the brief cartoony glimpse we got of Cerberus in ME1 and is on the usual trip again.

[Arijharn]

You know I'm pro-Cerberus, pro-humanity really, but even I have to admit that the differences between Veetor if you gave him to Tali and Veetor given to Cerberus has to raise some eyebrows. I suppose you could argue that you can't compare them necessarily because two different events happened, but I doubt Cerberus would intentionally attempt to 'break' a useful intelligence tool, more likely they just weren't knowledgeable about Veetor's fragile mental state as is, and pushed just a little too hard.

[Dean_the_Young]

I don't see any 'might' about it. Veetor was broken, and Cerberus wasn't the group to put on a stitch.



I don't see anything especially Paragon about giving Veetor to Tali. She's Tali, took you for being alive the moment she saw your face (or not, depending on the DLC armor), and has been completely loyal and more than a little devoted to you. She helped you when Praaza went off on his own. If she were to say she would give the information back to you, then even a Renegade should trust their crew.



If it were any other Quarian, however, then probably not.

[Asheer_Khan]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

If you return to the Migrant Fleet with either Cerberus person, they get defensive at the state of Veetor and insist he was already broken when they got to him.

Which is pretty much true.

There's nothing suggesting torture as much as harsh questions from unsympathetic Cerberus docs who looked at his body and not his mind. Veetor's problems were pyschological, not physical.

There's certainly nothing to support in any way that Cerberus did not ask him about Freedom's Progress, and anything about Gillian.

Khan is just stuck on the brief cartoony glimpse we got of Cerberus in ME1 and is on the usual trip again.

Apparently you have not a slightest idea how "interrogations" could be commencing.
My Sister's friend was once (in mid of 80'ths) "questioned" by goverment secret police about his political opposition work...
He goes there as heatly and sane man and return as broken physicaly and mentaly wreckage because he refuses to reveal who else work whit him... so dont you dare to say that Cerberus docs "just taking care for Veetor".

www.youtube.com/watch - This is Veetor returned to fleet whit Tali
 
www.youtube.com/watch - This is Veetor after Cerberus "medical care"

Conclusions i leave to watchers...

Beside Cerberus did have Veetors omni tool data, recordings from F. Progress cameras so there was nothinng more about what happened there to learn over what was in all those data.
The ONLY thing that could be subject of any questions is Gilian and her status within flotilla.

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 21 mai 2010 - 12:16 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Asheer_Khan wrote...
I really wonder if Mr Walters is truly proud of what he created....

Provided all the "fluent gameplay thermal ammo" crap shoved on him, he did quite well.

Asheer_Khan wrote...
The ONLY thing that could be subject of any questions is Gilian and her status within flotilla.

This makes sense, actually. So, who is to blame that Cerberus had to do this? Who stole from Cerberus their assets?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 mai 2010 - 12:18 .