1013 réponses à ce sujet

[Mouton_Alpha]

Shandepared wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

But the main point of my argument was that Tim can interpret the advancement any way he wishes. Might decide that it is in the interest of humanity to scuttle the Systems Alliance and take full control of humanity with Cerberus. Or try to commit genocide on an alien race or two. Or a whole range of qestionable activities.

None of which particularly bother me as long as he can do it smartly and to humanity's benefit.

Heh. I knew all those jingo responses in ME1 had to be targeted at someone.

[Sajuro]

Shandepared wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

But the main point of my argument was that Tim can interpret the advancement any way he wishes. Might decide that it is in the interest of humanity to scuttle the Systems Alliance and take full control of humanity with Cerberus. Or try to commit genocide on an alien race or two. Or a whole range of qestionable activities.

None of which particularly bother me as long as he can do it smartly and to humanity's benefit.

He's the one that determines what is to Humanity's benefit and even if he is telling the truth about advancing humanity, The collector base may very well drive him insane (wannabe Neitzche/Omnicidal Nihilist?) as it is an ancient evil artifact. In the end he may think it's best for humanity to 'ascend' to be free of death.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...
We are discussing competence of Cerberus. A competent team would be a)extra careful b)consider data it already has.

They were Reaper specialists that gathered every scrap of data about Reapers. "Hmmm, I feel weird and hear whispers, perhaps it has something to do with all those reports from about Shepard's endavours I read? Also, I am a well paid scientist with a brilliant mind so perhaps I could make some connections here, hmmmm!".

They could rotate the teams in and out of the Reaper so that the indoctrination wouldn't have time to work, use remote controlled mechs to cover more ground etc.

And, come to it, the Alliance/Cerberus/Council could simply have watched the Omega 4 Relay, waiting for the Collector Ship to come and then tracked it to it's next target.

That's a weakness of writing, not a lore-dictating organizational incompetance. Rulings of incompetence in a story have to come from evaluating comparative behavior with regards to other groups: it's the difference between various groups that determines whether one group or another is incompetant as much as the writing quality as a whole.

Consider, for example, the Salarian STG. Have we ever seen them accomplish something on their own? Half of the STG on Virmire were not only caught, but captured. They couldn't make a lasting genophage, and started a cycle in which they'll have to continue to risk Krogan genocide just to maintain it. They couldn't even keep an eye on their own agents and data for when one of their people had a change of heart and, oh yeah, decided to try and break the genophage and give the cure to one of the most dangerous Krogan packs there is. Where were they? Why couldn't they listen in on the radio chatter and learn about Maleon?  Mordin himself says they do constant observation. (Argument 34 of Cerberus Incompetence: Rogue agents and Traitors threatening organization.)

Or how about the Spectres? They are above the law but hardly impossible to track. How could the Council miss out on how Saren would occassionally hire entire merc groups to hit shipping? Or that he went into the Perseus Veil where only the geth go?

We can take this farther. The Alliance, which has visibly only protected one colony, during the Skillian Blitz, possibly again only due to Shepard. C-SEC, which can't even get a Hanar to leave the Praesidium and can't spot a guy breaking citadel law in the Council Chambers itself (scanning the keepers). Or, after risking a naive young girl by putting her in a place as dangerous as Chora's den, thinks it would be a great idea to let the most famous human in the galaxy play undercover cop. Then we see even more of them in ME2, not bothering to arrest known criminals and threatening to arrest innocent quarians accused with no proof. Or we can go to Noveria and pick out any number of cases that might meet your fancy.


I submit that Cerberus is not incompetent in the story of Mass Effect, only par for course with the writing given to every other group as a whole. It's the nature of an RPG story: much of the story comes from how you are needed to fix everything for everyone, no matter how silly the premise gets (like when Liara traps herself in a bubble force field through (a) a device she should know how works and ( what purpose does that device serve in the first place?).

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 02 juin 2010 - 10:59 .

[Nightwriter]

The Omega 4 Relay is in the Terminus Systems. I'm not sure how well the Council/Alliance could conduct operations there.

We have very little information about the salarian STG, but we know they have existed for thousands of years. Captain Kirrahe, at least, gives us examples of their accomplishments and effectiveness. The sheer creation and implementation of the genophage was an achievement in and of itself. No other race could've probably even created such a thing, let alone re-engineered it to conquer krogan adaptation. I have seen one example of a dissenter, but all organizations have dissenters.

Aside from that, none of your examples, or so called "mistakes", are as destructive or harmful as Cerberus's. Their pattern is: they conduct an operation/experiment; it goes horribly wrong. You would have to find other such examples that match this pattern in these other groups. The Saren-Spectre thing was a good example of this. But again, it is only one case, not enough to establish such a repetitive pattern as Cerberus has formed.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 02 juin 2010 - 11:14 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Nightwriter wrote...

The Omega 4 Relay is in the Terminus Systems. I'm not sure how well the Council/Alliance could conduct operations there.

Stealth. Undercover agents. Paying one of the many groups on Omega to do it. You're a smart person, you shouldn't have to ask. They let you operate there after giving you Spectre status, after all. Not being able to send fleets in hardly means that you can't be quiet about small numbers.

We have very little information about the salarian STG, but we know they have existed for thousands of years. Captain Kirrahe, at least, gives us examples of their accomplishments and effectiveness. The sheer creation and implementation of the genophage was an achievement in and of itself. No other race could've probably even created such a thing, let alone re-engineered it to conquer krogan adaptation. I have seen one example of a dissenter, but all organizations have dissenters.

We also don't know much about Cerberus besides what we see in the games (one sided and driven by narrative needs), which is my point. That all organizations have dissenters is also a point.

If we don't know everything about a group, then either judging them by what we do see directly is either fair or not.



Why shouldn't any other race be capable of genetic engineering? The Collectors made a plague that hits all the galaxy except humans and vorcha. The Humans practice genetic engineering all the time on themselves. The issue is the desire/need to use it, not the capability in and of itself.

Aside from that, none of your examples, or so called "mistakes", are as destructive or harmful as Cerberus's.

You don't think that bungling the genophage (Maleon's attempt to cure it) wasn't far more dangerous to the galaxy than any given Cerberus experiment. You don't think that being incapable of stopping a number of known attacks, including many Cerberus experiments as well, didn't harm more Alliance citizens than a given Cerberus experiment. You don't think that Saren's actions and intent have been worse than Cerberus.

These are not questions. These are not even hypotheticals. These are actual occurances you are disputing.

Their pattern is: they conduct an operation/experiment; it goes horribly wrong. You would have to find other such examples that match this pattern in these other groups. The Saren-Spectre thing was a good example of this. But again, it is only one case, not enough to establish such a repetitive pattern as Cerberus has formed.

One case, and also our one exposure. When you have a limited number, those are what you base your views on. You're doing the same thing with Cerberus: you don't care how many of their projects don't go wrong, only how many in the sight of the game (which always focuses on the mistakes of every group).

You are repeating the exact same mistake of taking a small sample and expanding it to cover everything we don't see.

[Nightwriter]

Certainly they could use stealth operations, certainly I have considered it. Willingness to do so, however, is another matter entirely, and since willingness depends upon a risk/reward analysis I can see them not wanting to, because operations in the Terminus are risky. That, and the Council doesn't really seem to care.

For that matter, can the Collector ship be tracked? Can it be followed? I notice it's not just the Council that fails to track the ship but everyone, even Cerberus, which is why I bring it up. Why doesn't Cerberus wait for the ship to come out and then track it? As it stands they only track it through the colonies it hits. I have always been curious of this.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

We also don't know much about Cerberus besides what we see in the games (one sided and driven by narrative needs), which is my point. That all organizations have dissenters is also a point.

If we don't know everything about a group, then either judging them by what we do see directly is either fair or not.

Not quite. For instance, in the matter of the STG, they have been around for thousands of years, and we cannot expect to learn enough about their entire history to make the kind of comparative judgments you're trying to here.

Cerberus is different. They have been around for a short period of time. Short enough that we are readily able to see their history and make comparative judgments on it. It's the difference between judging an organization based on 1/10,000 knowledge of it and 8/10 knowledge of it.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Why shouldn't any other race be capable of genetic engineering? The Collectors made a plague that hits all the galaxy except humans and vorcha. The Humans practice genetic engineering all the time on themselves. The issue is the desire/need to use it, not the capability in and of itself.

The Collectors are a Reaper-outfitted technologically advanced alien race. To compare the salarians' achievement to theirs is a compliment.

And other races are capable of genetic engineering, but other races did not think up or create the genophage.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You don't think that bungling the genophage (Maleon's attempt to cure it) wasn't far more dangerous to the galaxy than any given Cerberus experiment.

They did not bungle the genophage, if you mean what I think you do. It was successful. However the krogan adapted, an unforeseeable eventuality that no level of competence could prevent. You cannot control the permutations of organic life. Yet they showed competence anyway and corrected the problem.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You don't think that being incapable of stopping a number of known attacks, including many Cerberus experiments as well, didn't harm more Alliance citizens than a given Cerberus experiment. You don't think that Saren's actions and intent have been worse than Cerberus.

These are not questions. These are not even hypotheticals. These are actual occurances you are disputing.

Certainly the Council is responsible for letting Saren go as far as he did. However what they are guilty of is failing to stop an evil and letting it happen.

Cerberus intentionally creates the evils they fail to stop or control. It is different. They are not only failing to stop these things, they are the cause. Their objective in every endeavor they enter is to advance humanity, and yet somehow they cause great suffering and destruction.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

One case, and also our one exposure. When you have a limited number, those are what you base your views on. You're doing the same thing with Cerberus: you don't care how many of their projects don't go wrong, only how many in the sight of the game (which always focuses on the mistakes of every group).

You are repeating the exact same mistake of taking a small sample and expanding it to cover everything we don't see.

It is true that I am basing my judgment upon what the writers are showing me. You are correct. I will need to see a Cerberus project go right in a good way first - other than the Lazarus Project, of course.

You should also understand that Cerberus's motives and nature play a huge part in this as well. The STG is not motivated by something dark or sinister. They are not presented as a morally duplicitous or evil group. Kirrahe and his team were fighting for the good guys and Mordin and his team were stopping galactic war. The STG don't hurt people and cause destruction to advance the salarians' power.

[lovgreno]

Nightwriter wrote...The STG don't hurt people and cause destruction to advance the salarians' power.

Because they don't have to. They are competent enough to reach their goals without making themselves look bad. Using impopular methods are usualy a sign of incompetence. Skilled and resourcefull people finds better ways and don't have to resort to such desperate and inefficent methods like the ones Cerberus always uses.

[Nightwriter]

lovgreno wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...The STG don't hurt people and cause destruction to advance the salarians' power.

Because they don't have to. They are competent enough to reach their goals without making themselves look bad. Using impopular methods are usualy a sign of incompetence. Skilled and resourcefull people finds better ways and don't have to resort to such desperate and inefficent methods like the ones Cerberus always uses.

Well, essentially I agree, though I would perhaps amend it to, "Using destructive or violent methods is usually a sign of incompetence."

There are ways to do these things without causing so much damage.

[lovgreno]

Nightwriter wrote...
Well, essentially I agree, though I would perhaps amend it to, "Using destructive or violent methods is usually a sign of incompetence."

There are ways to do these things without causing so much damage.

Yes that is a more accurate way of describing it in this case, my bad. But in many cases, like Cerberus for example, impopular methods and destructive methods are two sides of the same incompetent coin.

[Nightwriter]

Lol, right you are.

[Collider]

Their incompetence is precisely one reason why I destroy the base. They don't seem to be able to keep an eye on their sects.

[Nightwriter]

Their sex, you say? Yes, they never could keep Kelly away from the husks.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 02 juin 2010 - 02:38 .

[Mouton_Alpha]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
That's a weakness of writing, not a lore-dictating organizational incompetance.

This, sadly, is the single most prominent obstacle in our discussion and we just can't skirt around it whithout Bioware putting more effort in the script.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Rulings of incompetence in a story have to come from evaluating comparative behavior with regards to other groups: it's the difference between various groups that determines whether one group or another is incompetant as much as the writing quality as a whole.

Not saying other groups were shining pillars of success, but we usually get less data about outright failures and reckless behaviour than that of Cerberus. The relay watching example is a story-wide plothole too, anyone could do it yet no one seems to do.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
They couldn't make a lasting genophage

It does seem that Mordin finally did it. ALso, they are maintaining it, so they are in control.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Where were they? Why couldn't they listen in on the radio chatter and learn about Maleon?  Mordin himself says they do constant observation. (Argument 34 of Cerberus Incompetence: Rogue agents and Traitors threatening organization.)

Heh, lazy writing again - easiest way to have Shepard get a mission? Make others fail. Could be done without showing STG as failures in this particular case. Still, no one says how far from making a cure that guy was and STG could still get there later should Shepard fail.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Or how about the Spectres? They are above the law but hardly impossible to track. How could the Council miss out on how Saren would occassionally hire entire merc groups to hit shipping? Or that he went into the Perseus Veil where only the geth go?

That was unclear. He probably had some reason other than piracy for doing that. Might just have been beneficial for the council in some way.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
I submit that Cerberus is not
incompetent in the story of Mass Effect, only par for course with the
writing given to every other group as a whole.

I agree in general. This again concludes with innconsistent writing "dunt have idea for a mission => make others fail". Disagree with equal distribution. Cerberus failures more specific.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
 It's the nature of an RPG story: much of the story comes from how you are needed to fix everything for everyone, no matter how silly the premise gets (like when Liara traps herself in a bubble force field through (a) a device she should know how works and ( what purpose does that device serve in the first place?).

I strongly disagree that it is some kind of required element. It is just a common and irritiating flaw of mission design, not present everywhere. It is also a cheap way of making players feel competent and powerful before they even strain themselves.

lovgreno wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...The STG don't
hurt people and cause destruction to advance the salarians' power.

Because
they don't have to. They are competent enough to reach their goals
without making themselves look bad. Using impopular methods are usualy a
sign of incompetence. Skilled and resourcefull people finds better ways
and don't have to resort to such desperate and inefficent methods like
the ones Cerberus always uses.

I am certain that the STG can be quite ruthless when they want to, but genophage is a very good example of their relative finesse - how do you think would Cebrerus act in their place? I have no doubt whatsoever that the outcome would be the complete genocide of the krogans.

[Mister Mida]

I honestly never thought about how (in)competent Cerberus is. Sure, they screw up a lot, but I always figured that's because they're playing with toys you shouldn't play with. Stuff like that eventually blows up in your face. And they didn't screw up with reviving Shepard, so at least they're not total idiots.

[lovgreno]

Nightwriter wrote...

Their sex, you say? Yes, they never could keep Kelly away from the husks.

Well considering that a majority of the husks may very well be ex Cerberus personell she perhaps recognised one of them as a ex boyfrind and wanted to make friends again?

[Thatguy38]

Anybody out there ever watched B5? Is it just me, or does Cerberus remind anyone else a lot of Psi Corp, or more specifically Bureau 13 or Black Omega, even though those 2 groups are only mentioned a few times.



They should have used Walter Koenig to voice TIM. Just throwing it out there.

[Collider]

Nightwriter wrote...

Their sex, you say? Yes, they never could keep Kelly away from the husks.

Somehow I knew someone would say something like this. Funny though.

[Skyblade012]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...
I very much question studying the tech.  What would it get us?  The ability to process organic life down into a raw form that can be used as a building material, at a rate of millions or billions of lives per ship.  Wonderfully worthwhile technology there.  What else do we expect to get besides the construction method?  Weapons?  We got those from the wreckage already.  Armor?  That would be even easier to get from the wreckage than weapons, assuming our own diamond armor isn't better than human genetic material armor.  Seriously, there is very little to gain there that we haven't either gotten already or could get by studying the wreckage.

Understanding of Reaper computer systems. Reaper's physical structure, and it's weak spots, where to shoot them for maximum damage. Reaper's full capabilities. Way to interfere with/stop/reverse indoctrination. Way to destroy husks easily, even remotely, or taking control of them. Way to disrupt Reaper communication. Way to permanently disable Citadel's relay function. Possibly locating other Reaper failsave schemes in the galaxy. Proof that even the Turian councillor would not be able to dismiss without eating his own eyes first.

Also, you get way more data from studying intact equipment instead of wreckage - Thanix cannon is just a peashooter, we could replicate - possibly - the Reaper's main guns.

All in all, the possiblities are nigh limitless and even theoretical knowledge is power.

Their computer systems.  The systems of the insane living machines.  The ones that are out to exterminate us.  You want to leave those intact.  Yeah, that's pretty much Cerberus's genius in action there.  Something as simple as an IFF beacon hooked into our OWN systems nearly wiped us out.  And you want to leave a station full of those machines, possibly containing actual sentient Reaper programs, intact.  Good luck to your science team, they are going to need it.

Understanding Reaper "physical structure" would be pointless.  Remember, the physical structure changes depending on which race was used to construct the Reaper, and it is unlikely there is a convenient database of all the various Reaper form blueprints on the station.  We would learn more about the final structure of the human Reaper, but since that thing is dead, knowing its weak points isn't a huge coup.

Reaper full capabilities?  We got that from Sovereign.  It wasn't holding back in that fight, you know.

Studies of indoctrination were performed by Saren, to no avail.  And the Cerberus team which had a chance to do something similar wasn't even intelligent enough to try, and just got suckered in by it.

The idea of ways to permanently shut off the Citadel relay, find other Reaper schemes, or their other failsafes is highly unlikely.  The Reapers aren't stupid.  This thing was a forge created to be used by lower forms, there is no reason for them to store such information on it.  They are, after all, living machines, and thus don't need external storage devices to retain information.  There is no reason to put such stuff on the station.

Um, actually, there really isn't any conclusive proof there.  If you assume the Council has its head stuck in the mud as much as some people do, they have no reason to acknowledge the Reaper threat.  Rather than being billion year old machines out to destroy all life, they are a newly created ship type created by the Collectors, who gave one to the geth and were working on another, but now that the Collectors are wiped out and the station is in your hands, everything is ok.  Any records to the contrary would wind up either being ignored because they come from Cerberus, or conveniently disappear, because they don't match the Council's ideas.

The Thanix is a scaled down version of Sovereigns main armament.  Designed for use on small ships like Frigates.  The Normandy couldn't mount a full scale version.  Scaling up is a simple matter, and if one was designed and built for a ship Sovereigns size, it would care equivalent power.

[lovgreno]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...
I am certain that the STG can be quite ruthless when they want to, but genophage is a very good example of their relative finesse - how do you think would Cebrerus act in their place? I have no doubt whatsoever that the outcome would be the complete genocide of the krogans.

I don't doubt that the STG have done some very questionable things, no one can keep their hands clean all the time, but the fact that we never hear about them is a sign that they do their work with skill and discretion. They have managed to use very little of the inefficent destructive methods and managed to keep it secret for centuries. Cerberus does quite the opposite.

But yeah, you are right that it's mostly bad imagination from the writers.

[Thatguy38]

I wouldn't see Cerberus as completely inept. Capable of making some bad decisions, yes, but every organization is guilty of that. TIM knew it was a risk when he revived Sheperd, but he also knew Sheperd was the only person who could get the job done. He would have to be stupid to think that Sheperd would not discover his motives, and knowing Sheperds previous record, it was shortsighted to think that Sheperd would keep the collector ship, (but really that is up to the player, so your decision at the end makes Cerberus look all that more foolish), and I am sure that will have repercussions in ME3. I'm sure TIM had some contingency in case it did backfire, we're just going to have to wait and see.



One thing that surprises me is that Sheperd would not have some sort of genetic or cybernetic 'failsafe' built into his system by Cerberus in case he does decide to turn. A nanobomb would stimulate a heart attack or stroke quite nicely, but that would have made for a really bummer ending.

[Mouton_Alpha]

Skyblade012 wrote...
Their computer systems.  The systems of the insane living machines.  The ones that are out to exterminate us.  You want to leave those intact.  Yeah, that's pretty much Cerberus's genius in action there.  Something as simple as an IFF beacon hooked into our OWN systems nearly wiped us out.  And you want to leave a station full of those machines, possibly containing actual sentient Reaper programs, intact.  Good luck to your science team, they are going to need it.

There is no reason to think that the Reaper AI exists anywhere outside an actual Reaper. If it existed on the station, then it could direct the opearations directly, without having to rely on some iffy long range link with Harbringer. A lot of Reaper tech is autonomous and dangerous but not necassarily sentient. Patterns are there, safety meaures are conceivable if a *competent* science team is used, for a change.

Also, I while I would be for studying the station, I am not exactly for Cerberus to do it.

Skyblade012 wrote...
Understanding Reaper "physical structure" would be pointless.  Remember, the physical structure changes depending on which race was used to construct the Reaper, and it is unlikely there is a convenient database of all the various Reaper form blueprints on the station.  We would learn more about the final structure of the human Reaper, but since that thing is dead, knowing its weak points isn't a huge coup.

Just because it looked different doesn't mean they used different technical solutions - joints, plating, power source placing, power transmission nodes, sensor placing, death star cooling vents, fire control units, shield generators, the data units where it holds its AI and all that spacey whathaveyou. Also, the Collector base was there before humanity came along so it could create *a* Repaer, not just human Reaper. Last but not least, Reapers looked might similar as an end product.

Skyblade012 wrote...
Reaper full capabilities?  We got that from Sovereign.  It wasn't holding back in that fight, you know.

How do you know how much it exerted itself? It just stormed past the fleet to the citadel blasting a bunch of unluckies. A military force studies every enemy weapon system as much as they can and there is a lot you can glean from it. How much can it shoot its super powerful guns while maintaining full shields? Does it have any good anti-fighter systems? How good its targeting system really is, does it have blind spots, can it be fooled? How much punishment can it really take in optimal conditions? Does it have anti-missile capability and how potent? While Reapers are very powerful they are not perfect and with enough data, you can device optimal tactics to fight them.

Skyblade012 wrote...
Studies of indoctrination were performed by Saren, to no avail.  And the Cerberus team which had a chance to do something similar wasn't even intelligent enough to try, and just got suckered in by it.

If scientists decided that something is impossible only because some other team failed, then we would have no progress whatsoever. Also, Saren failed to cure genophage which was later proven as curable. He was never allowed to finish his indoctrination studies either by a certain death squad at his doorstep.

Skyblade012 wrote...
The idea of ways to permanently shut off the Citadel relay, find other Reaper schemes, or their other failsafes is highly unlikely. 

Maybe, maybe not. We don't know. All is Reaper tech, undestanding of one, might enlighten about another. We are fighting a galactic war, just because something is "unlikely" doesn't mean we should just ignore the option.

Skyblade012 wrote...
The Reapers aren't stupid.  This thing was a forge created to be used by lower forms, there is no reason for them to store such information on it.  They are, after all, living machines, and thus don't need external storage devices to retain information.  There is no reason to put such stuff on the station.

Uh, there was data enough to create a new Reaper. Such data does not materialize out of thin air. Even if they create it using magic then there must be some spellbook hidden in there.

Skyblade012 wrote...
Um, actually, there really isn't any conclusive proof there.  If you assume the Council has its head stuck in the mud as much as some people do, they have no reason to acknowledge the Reaper threat.

This, sadly, is strictly in Bioware's not-always-competent writing. It was just a loose idea that maybe they are not totally immune to reasoning.

Skyblade012 wrote...
The Thanix is a scaled down version of Sovereigns main armament.  Designed for use on small ships like Frigates.  The Normandy couldn't mount a full scale version.  Scaling up is a simple matter, and if one was designed and built for a ship Sovereigns size, it would care equivalent power.

Scaling is not a simple matter.

Modifié par Mouton_Alpha, 02 juin 2010 - 03:26 .

[Sajuro]

Thatguy38 wrote...

I wouldn't see Cerberus as completely inept. Capable of making some bad decisions, yes, but every organization is guilty of that. TIM knew it was a risk when he revived Sheperd, but he also knew Sheperd was the only person who could get the job done. He would have to be stupid to think that Sheperd would not discover his motives, and knowing Sheperds previous record, it was shortsighted to think that Sheperd would keep the collector ship, (but really that is up to the player, so your decision at the end makes Cerberus look all that more foolish), and I am sure that will have repercussions in ME3. I'm sure TIM had some contingency in case it did backfire, we're just going to have to wait and see.

One thing that surprises me is that Sheperd would not have some sort of genetic or cybernetic 'failsafe' built into his system by Cerberus in case he does decide to turn. A nanobomb would stimulate a heart attack or stroke quite nicely, but that would have made for a really bummer ending.

I think it is dumb that he felt the need to lie to Shepard about the Collector ship trap since he knew Shepard understood the nessecity of stopping the collectors. That incident is one of the reasons my Shep decided  to blow up the station since he knew that Timmy didn't have a problem lying to him and that **** wasn't going to fly. He might have a failsafe (he probably does) in case Shepard becomes too much of a problem, maybe he had Wilson install the control chip behind Miranda's back.