1013 réponses à ce sujet

[lovgreno]

Sajuro wrote...
I think it is dumb that he felt the need to lie to Shepard about the Collector ship trap since he knew Shepard understood the nessecity of stopping the collectors. That incident is one of the reasons my Shep decided  to blow up the station since he knew that Timmy didn't have a problem lying to him and that **** wasn't going to fly. He might have a failsafe (he probably does) in case Shepard becomes too much of a problem, maybe he had Wilson install the control chip behind Miranda's back.

It's obvious he doesn't like letting Shepard make his/her own decisions. He always manipulates everyone.

[Sajuro]

but that still doesn't necessitate lying to Shepard since that is the only chance they have at finding out where the collectors live. He also falls short of manipulative bastard since he showed Shepard he was willing to lie in order to get what he wants instead of letting Shepard feel like he's in charge while prodding Shep in the desired direction.

[lovgreno]

Sajuro wrote...

but that still doesn't necessitate lying to Shepard since that is the only chance they have at finding out where the collectors live. He also falls short of manipulative bastard since he showed Shepard he was willing to lie in order to get what he wants instead of letting Shepard feel like he's in charge while prodding Shep in the desired direction.

Okay, your logic is convincing. Fact is that he doesn't seem to be in controll of much at all considering all the security problems at every project Cerberus does. Well except those mysterious unknown projects that might have been sucessfull of course. Informing Shepard about those sucessfull projects would probably make Shepard more loyal by the way. Yet somehow all we hear about is projects ending in husks and boom.

[lovgreno]

Shandepared wrote... You risk your life in every mission anyway, so what is the difference?

The difference is that Cerberus doesn't give you any reasons to risk your life except: "We lie and manipulate all the time but it's for a vague greater good so just trust what we say and not what we do wich often is failing".

[captainapollo]

You have to be amazed at the sheer audacity of the illusive man to manipulate shepard, it seems to be the only thing within cerberus that goes well. if only he took a great of an interest into the rest of his organisation.



Timmy hopes that history will vindicate him, hasn't he heard?

Propaganda is written by the victor, History is written by the observer.

[Dean_the_Young]

Who was blind enough not to see the trap coming in the first place? It screamed 'set up' from the get go, and even TIM pre-mission warned that there could be survivors repairing the ship or calling for reinforcements.

[Dean_the_Young]

captainapollo wrote...

You have to be amazed at the sheer audacity of the illusive man to manipulate shepard, it seems to be the only thing within cerberus that goes well. if only he took a great of an interest into the rest of his organisation.

Timmy hopes that history will vindicate him, hasn't he heard?
Propaganda is written by the victor, History is written by the observer.

And the observer is only in a position to write at the sufferance of the victor.

[Massadonious1]

Shandepared wrote...
He just didn't give you the full story.

What I don't understand is why he thinks we wouldn't of done these things with the "full story."

I think he's more concerned about making sure it's done his way.

[Dean_the_Young]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...
He just didn't give you the full story.

What I don't understand is why he thinks we wouldn't of done these things with the "full story."

I think he's more concerned about making sure it's done his way.

He wasn't concerned you wouldn't do it, he was concerned that you, or someone on your team, would have accidentally warned the collectors of the trap before you had taken the bait that you needed to.


TIM has only once, once, tried to overrule Shepard to get his own way, and that was for something as critical and future-shaping as the Collector Base.

[Vaenier]

Trap or not, the disabled collector ship was another failed part of the plot. Why didnt they blast away at it more with the Normandy to make sure it was disabled? Why did they go in with such a small force? Why did they act so surprised there were enemies on an enemy controlled vessel?

[Massadonious1]

How exactly would one of us "tip off" the Collectors?

Modifié par Massadonious1, 03 juin 2010 - 10:30 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Shandepared wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

Shandepared wrote... You risk your life in every mission anyway, so what is the difference?

The difference is that Cerberus doesn't give you any reasons to risk your life except: "We lie and manipulate all the time but it's for a vague greater good so just trust what we say and not what we do wich often is failing".

Since when is it vague? Stop the Collectors or humanity goes the way of the dodo. TIM gave you a reason for going into the Collector ship and that reason was true. He just didn't give you the full story.

Collectors didn't poses even slightest threath for humanity in general, they targeted ONLY Terminus colonies confidentially staing away from any colonies within Council controlled space... question is WHY and from who they have info that it's perfectly safe to attack Freedoms Progrees or Horizon without fear of military retalitations from Council and the Alliance?

No TiM have only one goal... get inside of Collector base AT ALL COSTS and trust me... not to save humanity.
TiM known that he doesn't poses necessary "assets" to assure overtaking of that station using his own forces so he started long term project involving Shepard.

He give us team of people which possible death in C-Base won't have too big impact on general status of the galaxy affairs but befroe that he made everything what was possible to SEPARATE  Sheard from the Council, Alliance and at least one of the old team mates (Virmire survivor).

By the way too bad that Bioware doesn't have guts to show us TiM's reaction on fact that Shepard was reinstated as Council Spectre what was after all against his plans...

And for the bolded part... no you are wrong, hiding even smallest information which can made difference between literaly life and death disqualifed TiM as relayable source of information and completely shattered even smallest spark of trust (if my Shep would ever trust TiM's intention in first place ).
Too bad that Bioware didn't give us a real choice to break whole "cooperation" whit TiM at this moment...
And i think this whole case sumarized pretty good Shep reply to Jacob's unconditional faith in TiM.

"If he try once again such thing, Collectors will be last thing he would be worried".

[Asheer_Khan]

Shandepared wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Collectors didn't poses even slightest threath for humanity in general, they targeted ONLY Terminus colonies confidentially staing away from any colonies within Council controlled space...

If it weren't for the blood rage your idiocy spawns in me I think I'd find your posts entertaining. Of-course the Collectors pose a threat. The vanishing of hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of people to build a functioning Reaper is a serious problem. In the meantime it weakens humanity's influence by stripping us of colonies and secondly it provides the Reapers with another powerful tool with which to enact their plans within the galaxy.

Asheer_Khan wrote...

(...)trust me... not to save humanity.

Oh I do, I really do.

Jerk.

[lovgreno]

Shandepared wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

Shandepared wrote... You risk your life in every mission anyway, so what is the difference?

The difference is that Cerberus doesn't give you any reasons to risk your life except: "We lie and manipulate all the time but it's for a vague greater good so just trust what we say and not what we do wich often is failing".

Since when is it vague? Stop the Collectors or humanity goes the way of the dodo. TIM gave you a reason for going into the Collector ship and that reason was true. He just didn't give you the full story.

He never gives the full story, not even close. Just enough to make people do the next task he have for them. What is he hiding? Something good or something bad?

[GothamLord]

lovgreno wrote...

 What is he hiding? Something good or something bad?

He's not the top dog in the food chain and the Alliance really still has pull over Cerberus to various degrees.  

[Massadonious1]

Eh, I don't see it. The entire point of that mission was to gather data, and we encountered resistance regardless. I could of shouted with a megaphone "we're in ur base, stealin' ur infoz" throughout the ship and the outcome would of been the same.