Come on, give the guy a crow bar. That's all he needs!
Cerberus is a surprisingly inept organization
Débuté par
Sajuro
, mai 14 2010 09:39
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#827
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 01:18
Sajuro
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Mission debriefing after you give the guy a crowbar
Collector ship successfully disabled with help from crowbar wielding colonist, we have all we need to take the fight to the collectors after having saved all the colonists on horizon.
Collector ship successfully disabled with help from crowbar wielding colonist, we have all we need to take the fight to the collectors after having saved all the colonists on horizon.
#828
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 01:21
Vaenier
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That was future Gordon Freeman? AwsomeSajuro wrote...
Mission debriefing after you give the guy a crowbar
Collector ship successfully disabled with help from crowbar wielding colonist, we have all we need to take the fight to the collectors after having saved all the colonists on horizon.
#829
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 01:22
Mouton_Alpha
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Congratulations!Shandepared wrote...
lovgreno wrote...
Considering that you don't know anything about me and almost nothing about TIM that doesn't mean much.
I know enough about both to come to a conclusion.
Consensus achieved!
You WIN!
#830
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 01:25
Sajuro
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now aren't you glad he never talked in game?Vaenier wrote...
That was future Gordon Freeman? AwsomeSajuro wrote...
Mission debriefing after you give the guy a crowbar
Collector ship successfully disabled with help from crowbar wielding colonist, we have all we need to take the fight to the collectors after having saved all the colonists on horizon.
#831
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 01:26
Dean_the_Young
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Would have ruined the mystique, to be sure.
#832
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 01:32
Sajuro
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-after Eli gets killed-
Alyx: Dad!
Gordon: how could you just stand there and let him be killed? It's all your fault.
.... maybe there was a reason they always sent him on missions that were likely to kill him.
Alyx: Dad!
Gordon: how could you just stand there and let him be killed? It's all your fault.
.... maybe there was a reason they always sent him on missions that were likely to kill him.
#833
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 01:33
Dean_the_Young
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Heh. Still, now I want to see a fan comic series in which crowbar guy saves the universe (by accident).
#835
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 03:29
Wildecker
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If he had asked: "Anything I can do to help you out there?", I'd most likely would have told him to stay inside. Politely. But the thought of lending a hand never crossed his mind. Instead he blames the Alliance for giving them the guns to drive the Collectors off? "They turned us into targets by installing those guns!" What a ******. Freedom's progress and the others had no guns, and it didn't protect them one bit.Sajuro wrote...
May I ask what you would have wanted the guy on Horizon to do? If he left the room to help you it would have just resulted in a dead colonist. As for him complaining, that's a natural reaction when you see so many people you know (including your loved ones). He went through shock and focused his anger on Shepard (granted without reason) who he viewed as the one responsible for not stopping the collectors.Wildecker wrote...
Remember that utterly useless guy on Horizon who hid inside that retreat and did not even want to come along and help me defend his home? But after I managed to force the Collectors into withdrawing, he shows up and complains that I let them get away with so many colonists. Logic and people don't mix well.
And the others aren't that much better, either, Remember the Horizon cutscene where the female leader states "Communication has priority over your gun's target systems!" and Ashley's/Kaidan's reply. "Right. It's a miracle they haven't tried to blame me for this, too ..."
#836
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 03:47
GothamLord
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Wildecker wrote...
If he had asked: "Anything I can do to help you out there?", I'd most likely would have told him to stay inside. Politely. But the thought of lending a hand never crossed his mind. Instead he blames the Alliance for giving them the guns to drive the Collectors off? "They turned us into targets by installing those guns!" What a ******. Freedom's progress and the others had no guns, and it didn't protect them one bit.Sajuro wrote...
May I ask what you would have wanted the guy on Horizon to do? If he left the room to help you it would have just resulted in a dead colonist. As for him complaining, that's a natural reaction when you see so many people you know (including your loved ones). He went through shock and focused his anger on Shepard (granted without reason) who he viewed as the one responsible for not stopping the collectors.Wildecker wrote...
Remember that utterly useless guy on Horizon who hid inside that retreat and did not even want to come along and help me defend his home? But after I managed to force the Collectors into withdrawing, he shows up and complains that I let them get away with so many colonists. Logic and people don't mix well.
And the others aren't that much better, either, Remember the Horizon cutscene where the female leader states "Communication has priority over your gun's target systems!" and Ashley's/Kaidan's reply. "Right. It's a miracle they haven't tried to blame me for this, too ..."
I would have really liked a more in depth dialogue option to chew the guy out. Maybe its my military/ law enforcement background but I'll be damned if I would sit in some room and cower then have the nerve to come out and screaming out at the one person that atleast actually tried to save them. I agree if the guy had atleast asked if he could have helped I would have told him to stay inside. The point it he would have atleast showed some sign of trying to do something. I know I'd rather die trying to take out as many of those bastards as I could that were trying to abduct my family/friends compared to tucking my tail between my legs and locking myself in a room. A coward trying to give me a guilt trip isnt going to fly.
#837
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 04:53
Sajuro
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Does anyone else think the Horizon guy is related to the guy on Eden prime who was hiding behind the crates?
#838
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 05:15
GothamLord
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Probably a cousin. Atleast the guy behind the crates on Eden Prime gave me stuff..made him slightly more useful.
#839
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 05:53
Sajuro
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i want to meet that guy again in Mass Effect 3, the baddies attack a colony where the family is having a reunion and you find all of them hiding in a sealed room or behind crates.
#840
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 05:58
Xivai
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I have only one theory. They in the past found a prothean or reaper orb, and unbeknownst to them it was actually an idiot ball. Thinking they were harnessing amazing power they found a way to replicate idiot ball energy and give it to all of their personel. They are all too loate to be saved.
#841
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 11:54
Wildecker
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Shandepared wrote...
lovgreno wrote...
A typical case of messiah complex. Only he knows what is best for humanity, the rest of us must fall in line or be forced to do so with any means necesary.
Frankly I trust him more than I do you or any other seditious paragon.
Let me put it this way - my own grandparents followed their chosen leader's vision of a "manifest destiny" because "he knows best". Three out of four survived to see the end of his rule, and I can count myself lucky for that quota. This gives me a certain biased point of view regarding nationalist/"master race" attitudes. And organisations with a "It's a dirty job, but it needs to get done for the Greater Good. Let history be my judge!" policy.
Modifié par Wildecker, 04 juin 2010 - 11:56 .
#842
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 12:00
Guest_Shandepared_*
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Wildecker wrote...
This gives me a certain biased point of view regarding nationalist/"master race" attitudes. And organisations with a "It's a dirty job, but it needs to get done for the Greater Good. Let history be my judge!" policy.
Thanks for sharing. However as an American I can proudly say that when my ancestors followed manifest destiny they succeeded and created the prosperous superpower we all know and love today.
#843
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 12:16
Dean_the_Young
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Which, I might add, defeated the other manifest destiny power through 'dirty but necessary' warfare and tactics.
#844
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 12:16
Wildecker
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I think you overestimate the amount of love in the air for this peculiar superpower. Fear, sure. Respect - well, that may be argued about. Love? I won't even laugh at that anymore.Shandepared wrote...
Wildecker wrote...
This gives me a certain biased point of view regarding nationalist/"master race" attitudes. And organisations with a "It's a dirty job, but it needs to get done for the Greater Good. Let history be my judge!" policy.
Thanks for sharing. However as an American I can proudly say that when my ancestors followed manifest destiny they succeeded and created the prosperous superpower we all know and love today.
Yeah, I was in love with the U.S. of A., once. It was the country that managed to send Neil Armstrong to the moon. The country where people like Bruce Springsteen and George Lucas come from.
But it's also the country where the theory of evolution can get banned from school books because the Bible tells a different story. And where a politician can get shot for being attracted to men instead of women. The country whose three-letter organisations don't loose sleep about removing governments of other, smaller nations if they get in the way of "manifest destiny". The U.S. A of the late Edgar J. Hoover, Eugene McCarthy and the not-so-late Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld.
#845
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 12:20
Wildecker
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Dean_the_Young wrote...
Which, I might add, defeated the other manifest destiny power through 'dirty but necessary' warfare and tactics.
Thank you for pointing out that you're not better than the Third Reich was. Just more successful.
#846
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 12:31
Dean_the_Young
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Not all dirty tricks are of the same weight, as I'm sure you are aware. Unless you really wish to make such a case of moral equivalence...?Wildecker wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Which, I might add, defeated the other manifest destiny power through 'dirty but necessary' warfare and tactics.
Thank you for pointing out that you're not better than the Third Reich was. Just more successful.
#847
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 12:31
CaptainZaysh
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You shouldn't be too hard on the Yanks, Wildecker. They're much better than everybody else. Bear in mind that Hoover & McCarthy were operating against the USSR, a country that executed more than 50 million of its own citizens. Context is important.
#848
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 12:48
Wildecker
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Dean_the_Young wrote...
Not all dirty tricks are of the same weight, as I'm sure you are aware. Unless you really wish to make such a case of moral equivalence...?Wildecker wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Which, I might add, defeated the other manifest destiny power through 'dirty but necessary' warfare and tactics.
Thank you for pointing out that you're not better than the Third Reich was. Just more successful.
There's warfare, and there's warfare. I have no doubt the Luftwaffe would gladly have done to New York what the 8th Air Force did to cities like Leipzig or Berlin if they'd had the right planes for the job. And I will not even start to compare Buchenwald to Manzanar.
But the Black Knight with the Swastika was not defeated by an Alliance of White Knights - rather by a band of Knights in shades of Grey, sometimes a very, very dark Grey. Who split up almost immediately after they had distributed the spoils of victory.
Nor was that other Black Knight with the red "meatball".
#849
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 01:14
CaptainZaysh
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Only children believe that wars are clashes of the good white knights vs the wicked black knights. What's your point?
#850
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 03:16
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Wildecker wrote...
I think you overestimate the amount of love in the air for this peculiar superpower. Fear, sure. Respect - well, that may be argued about. Love? I won't even laugh at that anymore.
You underestimate me.
Now if we could turn this back towards Cerberus a bit...
The Alliance and the human species in general will never carve out a big enough of niche for themselves unless they are willing to play dirty. Don't you think it is fair that we at least be able to compete with the (former) Council races? How do you suspect they attained so much power in the first place? Was it through good will? Certainly that's what they'd like us all to believe but reading between the lines will tell you the true story.
The three biggest kids on the block made their own clubhouse and set up rules where only kids as tough as them could enter. However in addition they made rule against other kids being tough. If you try to compete with the Council's military supremacy you're seen as a pariah of the galactic community. "Too reckless, too independent..."
According to the Citadel dreadnaughts are the measure of a military but they don't allow non-Council species to build very many. Thus those species can't hope to meet the ship requirements to join the Council. Furthermore the lack of a formidable military ensures they can't as easily spread their economies either.
In short the entire system is designed to keep everyone out. The only reason humanity had a shot was precisely because we refused to conform. It was our decidely "renegade" attitude that put us in a position to either save the Council or usurp its power once it was destroyed.
If humanity is to succeed they must get as despicable and dirty as the Council; and that's where Cerberus comes in.
I don't think they're any more inept that anyone else. Though I do understand where this perception is coming from. The writers I don't think have thought-out much of what they put in the game all that well. In fact prior to playing ME2 I had this very fear about Cerberus: I supported their mission after reading Ascension but I feared that they were bunglers.
On reflection though, Shepard has to save everybody. He spent the entire first game running around the galaxy cleaning up messes for Admiral Hackett. At the same time Shepard was busy doing work that the Council should have been doing (like exposing Saren) and his mission itself was one big clean-up operation for a millenia old mistake made by the Council. The STG come off the best in ME1 as they do manage to hold out alone against Saren and they do come up with a sound plan that maximizes what little resources are available to complete the mission. However it was pointed out by someone else (Dean, I think) that in ME1 they have one really big screw up. The defection of Maelon to the krogan could have started another interstellar war. It would be as bad as releasing the rachni queen and having her turn out to be malevolent.
In the end nothing Cerberus has done has ever threatened the galaxy like Maelon's rogue research. On the contrary, their greatest successes go way above and beyond the STG. Sure the genophage is impressive, but it's just a bio-weapon. It's not something that breaks the laws of physics or nature as the people in universe of Mass Effect understand them. The Normandy however, it's stealth system primarily, is revolutionary. If used to its first potential it could change the shape of warfare in Mass Effect much as the airplane or machinegun did on Earth.
Then there was the ressurection of Shepard, by itself an impressive medical feat. With enough practice and research perhaps some of those techniques could be refined. Countless lives could be saved with medical procedures derrived from Project Lazarus.
Finally, they outmaneuvered and then defeated the Collectors. Yes, of-course Shepard deserves credit for his leadership and combat prowess but so does Cerberus for their support. They gave him the means and the knowledge to do the impossible. The result was the Reapers losing one of their most important proxies in the Milky Way and in capturing the Collector base humanity gained a significant technological advance and priceless intel on the Reapers themselves. Oh, and all of this made possible by E.D.I., an A.I. derived from Reaper technology that has so far proven safe, stable, and invaluable.
In the grand scheme of things Cerberus' failures get overblown. Pragia was 20 years ago, and even in catastrophic failure it still produced Jack and it is possible some of their procedures were carried over to Ascension and used on Gillian; yet another success. The rachni that escaped from their research station more recently did threaten two Alliance outposts and this is Cerberus' biggest failure. However without a fertile queen the damage these rachni could inflict was limited. Chasca? A small team, barely more than a hundred people and they probably at least discovered that there are some preculiar phenomena surrounding dragon's teeth.
The derelict Reaper? A success. Many personnel were lost but the IFF was recovered and Cerberus again learned something about indoctrination. We know better now just how persistant it is and we might have a better guage on how fast it can occur.
One also can't discount the fallout from these failures or more specifically; that there was no fallout. When a problem arises Cerberus gets it fixed one way or another. With the intel forwarded to Shepard he was able to thwart the geth from looting the remains of the Firewalker and rob them of Prothean relics. Presumably the same will come of Overlord; in the end Cerberus will get Shepard on the scene to nip the problem in the bud before it can expand in scope.
