1013 réponses à ce sujet

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Shandepared wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

haha Shand. They're called judges and politicians and public servants and public relations consultants and business execs... and they are loved by their supporters and hated by their critics.

Truly, a latina knows best.

haha

[Sajuro]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Remember the Krogan Rebellions!

Or as the Krogan like to call it, war of Turian aggression

[FourSixEight]

Sajuro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Remember the Krogan Rebellions!

Or as the Krogan like to call it, war of Turian aggression

Remember, remember, the krogan rebellion, the salarian treason and plot.

I wonder what a Elcor V would be like.


Whimsical insanity: Voila, in view, a humble vaudevillian veteran....

[MotoSkunkX]

The successful Cereberus ops are the ones you never hear about.

[Sajuro]

FourSixEight wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Remember the Krogan Rebellions!

Or as the Krogan like to call it, war of Turian aggression

Remember, remember, the krogan rebellion, the salarian treason and plot.

I can see no reason why Salarian treason should ever be forgot.

[Dean_the_Young]

I had been referring to how the Council only got involved when the Krogan had the audacity to seize an Asari colony... but I like your musical interpretation much better.

[Sajuro]

That and the Rebellions basically started when a Krogan warlord dared the council to do something about it, guess what... they did.

[Dean_the_Young]

After the Council had already spent years allowing other species colonies to be seized. They were rather working against precedent by that point.

[Sajuro]

Yeah, but it was a colony of blue skinned space babes.... the council had to intervene for that.

[Sajuro]

Shandepared wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Yeah, but it was a colony of blue skinned space babes.... the council had to intervene for that.

Asari = meh, I wouldn't fight or 'em.

Also the Asari Colony could have been the proverbial straw that broke the Camel's back. As it said "The Council became concerned in around 700 CE, when
the krogan began to annex territory from other Citadel races." Also the council could have been concerned that confronting the Krogan would lead to an all out war since they became more aggressive as the species fought back.

[Homebound]

LPPrince wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I didn't really mean this to be a troll thread, I'm just saying Cerberus seems to be like Team Rocket from the pokemon games.

Team Rocket was more successful than Cerberus.

For christ's sake, they helped save the day in almost every movie.

+32 Paragon

MISSION COMPLETE
+50000exp
+2000irridium
Ashley Williams is now Recruitable

[Sajuro]

Shandepared wrote...

I'm sure the Council had strategic reasons not to immediately declare war, but I have my personal doubts that they'd have bothered waiting so long if the krogan had first started by annexing the colonies of Council races. Just as the Council had well explained reasons for not attacking the geth in ME1, I have my doubts (shared by Udina) that they'd take the same stance if Eden Prime were a turian colony.

Well it is understandable that they would be more incensed since capturing an Asari colony directly affects a council race's stratigic interest, like America would be more likely to launch an attack if someone attacked one of our territories than if an attack in South America killed thousands of people. I have no doubts that Udina wouldn't be shouting about an Elcor colony being attacked because it isn't his job as a diplomat to look out for the Elcor's interests.
Elcor Diplomat: With rage and idiganation: this is an outrage.

[Sajuro]

And that's how it should be (hoping shepard can change that sometime). Though the council is naturally bias towards their own races, they do try to look out for the other races (which is harder since you don't have perspective to their suffering so everything seems less important)

[Dean_the_Young]

The Council is too secure in it's position to need to change, and too privileged to want to reform and reflect other species concerns better.



Humanity was on the fast track to a seat because of it's military ability and further potential, nothing more, and the other species still haven't changed their hard power deficiencies. With the addition of human to the Council, the Council is more secure than the form that prevented outside membership and participation for thousands of years: humans provide both more military power for the fleets, as well as more bodies for the governance (like C-SEC). The Council has even less incentive to looking out for the interests of other species than it already did: heck, it won't even necessarily look out for the interest of a member species!



Short of an all-inclusive Council (which the current Council has opposed as a matter of policy), the best way to force softer handling from the Council is to weaken it's leverage and make it more dependent on the acquiescence of the non-Council members. When the Council's continuing rule is dependent on the support of non-member species, not it's own dominating might, the Council will have to pay heed to the concerns of member species and weigh their priorities more heavily against it's own. If it doesn't, it can could not last.



Now, if only there was a way to slim down the Council, to give it a narrower focus but weaker grip which would necessitate such finesse and responsiveness due to a lack of overwhelming power...

[Nightwriter]

I believe we should use the Council's own races against them.

I do not like the way we make out like humans are the only progressives in the galaxy, the only ones capable of action or desiring of change. Characters like Garrus and Aethyta and Mordin make you realize there are just as many people in the Council races who are impatient with the Council as we are.

The Council has become stagnant. But that doesn't mean the Council races in their entirety are unfit to rule. It means the administration needs to be radically changed. If we show the Council races just how dangerously their government is failing them then the Council's own people will come against it.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 11 juin 2010 - 12:51 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Radical change in administration? Underline just how far the Council species complacency has come? Public sentiment against the Council?



There's a choice for that, you know...

[Sajuro]

but it leads to anti human sentiment.

[Nightwriter]

It's the People vs the Administration, not Humanity vs the Administration.

The Council is inherently at fault because it is built upon a system of inequality, and a human-dominant galactic government will be at fault for the same reason.

Of course it's all just circumstantial. You have described to me a human-dominant system that sounds as though it would work quite superbly, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it's all in your head and the likelihood of such a fairly run government actually happening is quite slim. In the end, power always corrupts.

[abstractwhiz]

Shandepared wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

No species is forced to open an embassy on the citadel. The batarians closed their embassy, nobody declared war on them.

Much to the determinent of their economy.

The Batarian economy is a square matrix? 

No one is going to get this joke. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Nightwriter wrote...

It's the People vs the Administration, not Humanity vs the Administration.

The Council is inherently at fault because it is built upon a system of inequality, and a human-dominant galactic government will be at fault for the same reason.

Of course it's all just circumstantial. You have described to me a human-dominant system that sounds as though it would work quite superbly, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it's all in your head and the likelihood of such a fairly run government actually happening is quite slim. In the end, power always corrupts.

Every action gives a reaction gives a reaction. If Humanity becomes unbearable they will lose power, and that reaction to them is far more likely to see an expanded Council of all the species than simply a return to Asari/Salarian/Turian. It's the advantage of weakness: either a Human Council pays greater heed to species concerns than the old Council does, or it fails for being too unresponsive to galactic concerns. And when it fails, chances are something far better comes around, because it will be much harder for the Council species to rally Citadel species behind 'they don't represent you' and then turn on that the moment they return to power.

It isn't the People vs the Administration because the common alien of the Council species likes the arrangement: they benefit most, after all. It's like going to the populace of a great power and asking "Do you want to stop being a great power?" It's like that populist Turian politician Thane's son is out to kill: he isn't out to reform the Council regardless of what happened, he's out to kick humans out and narrow it once again.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sajuro wrote...

but it leads to anti human sentiment.

You get anti-human sentiment regardless: the Turian still is making a popular campaign as anti-human regardless of what you do. The Pureblood Asari still hates humans for being involved in getting her daughter killed. Batarians still hate humans. Even Terminus system humans hate the Alliance regardless. 'Anti-Human sentiment' isn't some end-all objection, it's a natural consequence of anything a species-government like the Alliance does.

Anti-human sentiment means that a Human Council will have to be more, not less, responsive to the needs of the various aliens if it wants to survive. It will need to strike alliances, deals, and what not not just with old Council species, but easily with other species as well. Species that didn't have their own interests reflected by the Council either.