1013 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

LPPrince wrote...
Cerberus has a part in saving everyone. Indirectly. Keyword obviously being "indirectly".

Great. Cerberus saves everyone. And they must be shot for it.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

GothamLord wrote...
Seeing as if you go through the scene of the data slowly pictures of Reapers show up its a very good indication that the Alliance is still holding ties with Cerberus, who should be the only one with any type of real Reaper tech. I guess its possible that the Alliance went around and tried to gather up peices of Sovereign for research but its the lesser likely of the two.

I highly doubt actually that the alliance has direct ties with Cerberus. More than likely there is an few corrupt officals who have ties to them, but I honestly think that Cerbersus has gone fully rogue from the alliance. The alliance aren't pals with Cerberus anymore, otherwise you don't send kaiden/ashley on an mission to see if it's Cerbersus taking hundreds of thousands of colonists. Alliance didn't know what the threat was, but even if they did find out it was the collectors, they can still spin it that Cerberus did it and hunt down the collectors and have an viable exause to go into the Terminus system in force to hunt down Cerbersus. While I bet Cerberus still has infulence over some things in the alliance. I personally think the alliance got an mostly clean house.

The problem i see is the fact that the grey box has reaper intell on it, which means the alliance knows about the reaper threat. Live, Viable footage of the reapers or at least an reaper schemtic of some kind from the looks of it. Either way, it will heavily damage the allaince and while Cerberus is not on good terms with the alliance, they still see having allaince at the fore-front the best thing in this case. An weaker Alliance does not promote human interests.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 15 mai 2010 - 05:26 .

[Zulu_DFA]

GothamLord wrote...

Another question in the success / failure department is Kasumi Goto.   There is really no reason for Cerberus to get her involved in Shepard's attack on the Collector base.  Really a thief? Sure she can do some serious tech skills but its an assault mission above all else not breaking into a vault.  However Kasumi's loyatly mission involves something called a greybox. A greybox that belonged to Keiji Okuda a former member of the Alliance Intelligence Agency. Said information on the box would do serious damage to the Alliance's reputation if leaked.  By getting Kasumi on Shepards team the greybox can be recovered and destroyed thus removing all connects with Cerberus and the Alliance on Reaper tech or its atleast monitored on its location from this point forward being on the Normandy.

I included Kasumi (unlike "Firewalker") in my canon. But my Shepard recruited her after the suicide mission. Told her to destroy the data, of course.

[Sajuro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

Another question in the success / failure department is Kasumi Goto.   There is really no reason for Cerberus to get her involved in Shepard's attack on the Collector base.  Really a thief? Sure she can do some serious tech skills but its an assault mission above all else not breaking into a vault.  However Kasumi's loyatly mission involves something called a greybox. A greybox that belonged to Keiji Okuda a former member of the Alliance Intelligence Agency. Said information on the box would do serious damage to the Alliance's reputation if leaked.  By getting Kasumi on Shepards team the greybox can be recovered and destroyed thus removing all connects with Cerberus and the Alliance on Reaper tech or its atleast monitored on its location from this point forward being on the Normandy.

I included Kasumi (unlike "Firewalker") in my canon. But my Shepard recruited her after the suicide mission. Told her to destroy the data, of course.

Why is Firewalker not in your canon? If you don't mind me asking

[Nightwriter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
Cerberus has a part in saving everyone. Indirectly. Keyword obviously being "indirectly".

Great. Cerberus saves everyone. And they must be shot for it.

That's funny. I don't recall any time Cerberus has saved anyone in the entire time I've known them. Shepard was a bit of an anomaly - the exception, not the rule.

Thorian creeper experiments - who did that save?

Husk experiments - who did that save?

Rachni experiments - who did that save?

Thresher maw experiments - who did that save?

Flotilla attack - who did that save?

In fact the only time I can recall Cerberus saving anyone at all is after Shepard joined them. Now suddenly they seem to be doing a bit of good, and I doubt it's a coincidence.

But for an organization that claims it does what it must to save lives, they really do save a remarkably few amount of people.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 15 mai 2010 - 05:38 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...
I highly doubt actually that the alliance has direct ties with Cerberus. More than likely there is an few corrupt officals who have ties to them, but I honestly think that Cerbersus has gone fully rogue from the alliance.

I kept a thread about this, but since it's beed dead for some time let's start it over here:

All organizations (including governments, states, nations, intelligence agencies and rogue terrorist groups) are not the paper work. They are the people of whom they are comprised. Official and/or legal status gives us nothing to support/deny Cerberus being part of the Alliance. If Alliance's top honchos (those people who really call the plays, run the shows and say where the money go, thereby being the Alliance Government's shadow cabinet) think that TIM is their buddy, then Cerberus is part of the Alliance. And its official "rogue" status is for the aliens and alien lovers in human midst.

Especially when you remember, that the Alliance was created by Earth's political officials with the back up of big businesses. Does it even have a constitution? A bill of rights? A universal suffrage?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 mai 2010 - 06:12 .

[GothamLord]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

GothamLord wrote...
Seeing as if you go through the scene of the data slowly pictures of Reapers show up its a very good indication that the Alliance is still holding ties with Cerberus, who should be the only one with any type of real Reaper tech. I guess its possible that the Alliance went around and tried to gather up peices of Sovereign for research but its the lesser likely of the two.

I highly doubt actually that the alliance has direct ties with Cerberus. More than likely there is an few corrupt officals who have ties to them, but I honestly think that Cerbersus has gone fully rogue from the alliance. The alliance aren't pals with Cerberus anymore, otherwise you don't send kaiden/ashley on an mission to see if it's Cerbersus taking hundreds of thousands of colonists. Alliance didn't know what the threat was, but even if they did find out it was the collectors, they can still spin it that Cerberus did it and hunt down the collectors and have an viable exause to go into the Terminus system in force to hunt down Cerbersus. While I bet Cerberus still has infulence over some things in the alliance. I personally think the alliance got an mostly clean house.

The problem i see is the fact that the grey box has reaper intell on it, which means the alliance knows about the reaper threat. Live, Viable footage of the reapers or at least an reaper schemtic of some kind from the looks of it. Either way, it will heavily damage the allaince and while Cerberus is not on good terms with the alliance, they still see having allaince at the fore-front the best thing in this case. An weaker Alliance does not promote human interests.

Your welcome to see the Alliance however you want to see them.  I think viewing them as a squeaky clean is short sighted and being a bit gullible. I think alot of the information in the game leaning towards something else.  I cant really see the Alliance letting Jacob, an Alliance solider, a Corsair and someone that was able to stop a Batarian terrorist plot again the Council, just vanish off the map into the arms of a rogue group like Cerberus.  Let alone the best pilot in the Alliance Joker or a veteran Alliance doctor like Chakwas.  The Alliance has ties to Cerberus still.

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...
Why is Firewalker not in your canon? If you don't mind me asking

Because I love the Mako. And hate all "fluent gameplay" ME2 stuff. To me, Hammerhead (the looks and performance) is a bad joke. Also, bringing back Manuel, even to die, is unnecessary in *my* ME universe, which is big enough that random people should not happen to be met twice.

[Zulu_DFA]

Nightwriter wrote...

Thorian creeper experiments - who did that save?

Husk experiments - who did that save?

Rachni experiments - who did that save?

Thresher maw experiments - who did that save?

Flotilla attack - who did that save?

When we say Cerberus saves lives we mean: "the big picture", "in the long run". of course Cerberus is not the Red Cross. It's the same as with "Nuking Hiroshima saved lives" statement.

Direclty TIM saves only kittenz, and we all know what for!

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

GothamLord wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

GothamLord wrote...
Seeing as if you go through the scene of the data slowly pictures of Reapers show up its a very good indication that the Alliance is still holding ties with Cerberus, who should be the only one with any type of real Reaper tech. I guess its possible that the Alliance went around and tried to gather up peices of Sovereign for research but its the lesser likely of the two.

I highly doubt actually that the alliance has direct ties with Cerberus. More than likely there is an few corrupt officals who have ties to them, but I honestly think that Cerbersus has gone fully rogue from the alliance. The alliance aren't pals with Cerberus anymore, otherwise you don't send kaiden/ashley on an mission to see if it's Cerbersus taking hundreds of thousands of colonists. Alliance didn't know what the threat was, but even if they did find out it was the collectors, they can still spin it that Cerberus did it and hunt down the collectors and have an viable exause to go into the Terminus system in force to hunt down Cerbersus. While I bet Cerberus still has infulence over some things in the alliance. I personally think the alliance got an mostly clean house.

The problem i see is the fact that the grey box has reaper intell on it, which means the alliance knows about the reaper threat. Live, Viable footage of the reapers or at least an reaper schemtic of some kind from the looks of it. Either way, it will heavily damage the allaince and while Cerberus is not on good terms with the alliance, they still see having allaince at the fore-front the best thing in this case. An weaker Alliance does not promote human interests.

Your welcome to see the Alliance however you want to see them.  I think viewing them as a squeaky clean is short sighted and being a bit gullible. I think alot of the information in the game leaning towards something else.  I cant really see the Alliance letting Jacob, an Alliance solider, a Corsair and someone that was able to stop a Batarian terrorist plot again the Council, just vanish off the map into the arms of a rogue group like Cerberus.  Let alone the best pilot in the Alliance Joker or a veteran Alliance doctor like Chakwas.  The Alliance has ties to Cerberus still.

Never said they were Squeaky clean. You did note I said an few corrupt officals? You don't need the entire alliance on Cerbersus side in order to have enough infulence, keeps the alliance legitimating hating cerberus for what they are while an few push things intentional in Cerbersus direction when they need it. A few officals in the right places could get you all the infulence you need. Part of the reason why they grounded joker and Dr. Chakwas were on board with sheppard with the reaper threat. It was too much political **** involved to keep them flying hence why joker was saying the council was shoving everything sheppard stirred up under the rug.

The crew knew what sheppard was saying was right, which was why they were dropped, it's easier to throw someone out or toss them aside, because then you can simply claim them as insane or battle fatigued etc from the loss of their commanding officer. At least that is what I got from the situation. Cerbersus saw an prime oppunity (or had the offical make it) and hired most of the crew for their secret project(s). An offical who was loyal to Cerberus could easily have made that decision and the rest of the allaince officals agreed with his assessment due to the fact they wanted to solidfy their advancement on the council and the easiest way is to agree with the council and toss everything under the rug.

O they are fairly clean, with an few bad apples of course. Much more their style this way. I am sure said corrupt offical will have money listed with fake personanel on some secret blackops project for when the collector/reaper tech for those who saved the base will suddenly have made these new found advancements in technology. The allaince goes yay! and the offical goes up in rep and his position is secured, and thus so his cerbersus.

[Ieldra]

I've read in this thread that Cerberus was involved in building the SR1. Where is that information from?



And regarding the topic, I thought of posting something about Cerberus' (seeming?) incompetence myself. Their experiments often have disastrous results with a lot of their own people dead in the process. Even if TIM cares about results more than methods, having your top scientists dead every time you try something new, that's too much to simply file it away under "high risk, high gain".



(For the record: Cerberus had nothing to do with the Thorian creeper plague on Nodacrux. That was ExoGeni)

[Zulu_DFA]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I've read in this thread that Cerberus was involved in building the SR1. Where is that information from?

EDI tells you so.

Ieldra2 wrote...
Even if TIM cares about results more than methods, having your top scientists dead every time you try something new.

There are plenty of scientists out there. You just need to give resources to those, who are interested in things you are intested in.

It looks like scientists work under contracts for single projects, and move on later. Or don't (if they are dead, like Wilson). For example the Toombs's story seems like the Akuze project had been over for some time before Toombs went for revenge.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 mai 2010 - 06:36 .

[Pacifien]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I've read in this thread that Cerberus was involved in building the SR1. Where is that information from?

Talk to EDI after Joker unshackles her.

Ieldra2 wrote...
(For the record: Cerberus had nothing to do with the Thorian creeper plague on Nodacrux. That was ExoGeni)

Cerberus did get some Thorian creeper samples from ExoGeni, though. The Illusive Man's reach is far and varied.

[Schneidend]

This thread is what's inept. Cerberus inept because Shepard ruined some of their plans? Shepard is the MAIN CHARACTER. Main characters defeat their enemies. It's kind of their thing. Sure, Cerberus could have proved themselves a lot more badass by kicking Shepard's ass, but that makes for a stupid game.

[GothamLord]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Never said they were Squeaky clean. You did note I said an few corrupt officals? You don't need the entire alliance on Cerbersus side in order to have enough infulence, keeps the alliance legitimating hating cerberus for what they are while an few push things intentional in Cerbersus direction when they need it. A few officals in the right places could get you all the infulence you need. Part of the reason why they grounded joker and Dr. Chakwas were on board with sheppard with the reaper threat. It was too much political **** involved to keep them flying hence why joker was saying the council was shoving everything sheppard stirred up under the rug.

The crew knew what sheppard was saying was right, which was why they were dropped, it's easier to throw someone out or toss them aside, because then you can simply claim them as insane or battle fatigued etc from the loss of their commanding officer. At least that is what I got from the situation. Cerbersus saw an prime oppunity (or had the offical make it) and hired most of the crew for their secret project(s). An offical who was loyal to Cerberus could easily have made that decision and the rest of the allaince officals agreed with his assessment due to the fact they wanted to solidfy their advancement on the council and the easiest way is to agree with the council and toss everything under the rug.

O they are fairly clean, with an few bad apples of course. Much more their style this way. I am sure said corrupt offical will have money listed with fake personanel on some secret blackops project for when the collector/reaper tech for those who saved the base will suddenly have made these new found advancements in technology. The allaince goes yay! and the offical goes up in rep and his position is secured, and thus so his cerbersus.

I have to disagree on part of that there.  You dont as a military organization like the Alliance let people like Jacob Taylor and Jeff Moreau walk away, let alone throw or toss them out like you suggest.  They are to valuable to lose.  You find someplace to put them like Cerberus, thats off the public radar. Someplace that the Alliance can still monitor them and use them affectivley.

Now I'm not saying the entire Alliance is bad apples, there are always a few.  Hell, I wouldnt even say the people pulling the strings besides TIM on Cerberus are corrupt.  No, its a few key people at the top with the political pull to lead an operation like Cerberus.

[GothamLord]

Schneidend wrote...

This thread is what's inept. Cerberus inept because Shepard ruined some of their plans? Shepard is the MAIN CHARACTER. Main characters defeat their enemies. It's kind of their thing. Sure, Cerberus could have proved themselves a lot more badass by kicking Shepard's ass, but that makes for a stupid game.

Your Inept. 

[Schneidend]

GothamLord wrote...

Your Inept. 

NO U

[GothamLord]

Schneidend wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

Your Inept. 

NO U

In all seriousness though, your earlier statement doesnt make sense.  We arent arguing that Cerberus is inept because Shepard stopped their plans.  Or hes the main character of the game.  All the plans Shepard was involved with were already FUBARed when he showed up. He was cleaning up.

The debate has become more what Cerberus has really accomplished with all their "failed" experiments vs. what they may have done good that we dont hear about. As well as what connection they still have with the Alliance.

Modifié par GothamLord, 15 mai 2010 - 07:12 .

[AntiChri5]

Cerberus operations we have seen are always pointless because any success they have is wrapped up in fail.



Made a super biotic? Great, too bad her greatest motivation is killing you.



Influenced design of SR 1? Great, too bad it was then used to destroy an entire cell.



Brought a man back from the dead? Great, too bad he/she woke up before schedule unarmed unarmored surrounded by hostile forces.



Created SR 2? Great, too bad you put it under command of someone who said "I hate you i dont trust you and you smell" everytime you had a conversation with him then acted all surprised when he buggered off with it.



Made a super biotic? Great, too bad......wait.....we have been here before......havent we?

[GothamLord]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Cerberus operations we have seen are always pointless because any success they have is wrapped up in fail.

Made a super biotic? Great, too bad her greatest motivation is killing you.

Influenced design of SR 1? Great, too bad it was then used to destroy an entire cell.

Brought a man back from the dead? Great, too bad he/she woke up before schedule unarmed unarmored surrounded by hostile forces.

Created SR 2? Great, too bad you put it under command of someone who said "I hate you i dont trust you and you smell" everytime you had a conversation with him then acted all surprised when he buggered off with it.

Made a super biotic? Great, too bad......wait.....we have been here before......havent we?

Bad news sells newspapers.   Shepard has no reason to respond to a Cerberus base thats having positive results, so of course you dont hear about them.  You only hear the bad **** thats hit the fan, because as Shepard you're the only one that can clean up the mess. 

[AntiChri5]

GothamLord wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Cerberus operations we have seen are always pointless because any success they have is wrapped up in fail.

Made a super biotic? Great, too bad her greatest motivation is killing you.

Influenced design of SR 1? Great, too bad it was then used to destroy an entire cell.

Brought a man back from the dead? Great, too bad he/she woke up before schedule unarmed unarmored surrounded by hostile forces.

Created SR 2? Great, too bad you put it under command of someone who said "I hate you i dont trust you and you smell" everytime you had a conversation with him then acted all surprised when he buggered off with it.

Made a super biotic? Great, too bad......wait.....we have been here before......havent we?

Bad news sells newspapers.   Shepard has no reason to respond to a Cerberus base thats having positive results, so of course you dont hear about them.  You only hear the bad **** thats hit the fan, because as Shepard you're the only one that can clean up the mess. 

Not much of an excuse. Saying they have successes all the time they cant tell you about is like when i was fifteen and one of the only guys at school without a girlfriend and i said i had one who went to a different school far away.

Besides, if that were so TIM would have likely told you in his recruitment speech. Rather than just tell you they could do good he would have provided examples.

[GothamLord]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Not much of an excuse. Saying they have successes all the time they cant tell you about is like when i was fifteen and one of the only guys at school without a girlfriend and i said i had one who went to a different school far away.

Besides, if that were so TIM would have likely told you in his recruitment speech. Rather than just tell you they could do good he would have provided examples.

I explained why TIM didnt give any examples of "good" things that Cerberus accomplished back in an earlier post in this thread.   The political fallout and military ramifications are a little more epic than high school dating. 

[AntiChri5]

GothamLord wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Not much of an excuse. Saying they have successes all the time they cant tell you about is like when i was fifteen and one of the only guys at school without a girlfriend and i said i had one who went to a different school far away.

Besides, if that were so TIM would have likely told you in his recruitment speech. Rather than just tell you they could do good he would have provided examples.

I explained why TIM didnt give any examples of "good" things that Cerberus accomplished back in an earlier post in this thread.   The political fallout and military ramifications are a little more epic than high school dating. 

Not to the world in general just to Shepard when he recruits him/her.