72 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

I sincerely don't give a monkey's ass if that God Child decides to burn all the world. My PC will be long dead by then.

[Sarah1281]

I am opposed to the ritual (I only do it when I either need Morrigan or romanced Alistair) it is the cowards way out and as you said violates the Warden oath

Do the Wardens ever swear an oath? And Duncan may very well have conscripted them and dragged them there so being told that the job they were forced into doing required their death as it was the 'proper' way when it could also be accomplished through the ritual may not sit well with them.

[Fizzeler]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I am opposed to the ritual (I only do it when I either need Morrigan or romanced Alistair) it is the cowards way out and as you said violates the Warden oath

Do the Wardens ever swear an oath? And Duncan may very well have conscripted them and dragged them there so being told that the job they were forced into doing required their death as it was the 'proper' way when it could also be accomplished through the ritual may not sit well with them.

funny thing Alistair has a conversation with you on this if his approval is low enough about honor and the Warden oath
Again same with the Architect it may not sit well with the Wardens (at all), but in the end is it for the better good?

[Ymladdych]

If you really were in the same situation, wouldn't you?

There's no way of knowing for sure, but in general, there are in fact people who will step to the plate when it comes to self-sacrifice. Just the other night I saw footage of a guy coldcocking an armed robber with a beer bottle. He could have snuck out safely but instead chose to risk his own life for a single stranger. What's at risk if things go bad with the baby? Mankind? The Maker? All of existence? The Chantry? (Even if you don't care about the institution, think about the lives that would be lost in that war.)

Other things to think about: some of the Grey Wardens may actually WANT to take a dirt nap. It's not like all of them have had happy, joy-joy lives. Or, some of them might be super religious and believe in the Maker. They might believe that the Maker would reward them for doing their duty and punish them for succumbing to the darkness instead of holding fast to their beliefs. *shrug*

***Edit: Crazy formatting

Modifié par Ymladdych, 15 mai 2010 - 02:12 .

[Emerald Melios]

The Chantry brainwashes the people of Thedas, you know. It's totalitarianism.

[Suron]

Fizzeler wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Flemeth's plans...I think that woman has the gift of foresight and has circles within circles within circles of plans and has probably already outmanuered both the PC and Morrigan before you set your first foot on the road of your journey. Its Flemeth who ensures you are spurred onto your path at the very beginning. While I do trust Morrigan isn't lying to my PC when she says she doesn't intend to use the child to harm Ferelden, I DON'T trust her mother. But...by this point unless you refuse the DR, there isn't much more you can do to stop them.

She has probably had her plan since The Stolen Throne, but yes Flemeth you can not really trust

Just because the Chantry says Bllod Magic is bad does not mean it is

yah because the fact it was taught by demons....primarily uses blood (duh) for the spells which includes sacrificing others for the more powerful ones...mind controls is the predominate trait/ability of it.

no..no it's not inherintely evil at all

just as anything good can be used for evil purposes..so can something evil be used for good...

blood magic IS evil.  fact.

[Avilia]

I always get the feeling its a bit of a Faustian deal. So much going on under the surface.

Using this ritual to save one life - the thought that always goes through my mind is - at what future cost?

And yes I have always accepted her offer. I just think its going to turn out to be the worst decision you make in the whole game ;-)

Oh sorry - slight OT there - most of my chars don't much mind either way as long as the blood magic is used with control.

Modifié par Avilia, 15 mai 2010 - 03:45 .

[Sarah1281]

I just think its going to turn out to be the worst decision you make in the whole game ;-)

Worse than Harrowmont with the Anvil?

[Avilia]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I just think its going to turn out to be the worst decision you make in the whole game ;-)

Worse than Harrowmont with the Anvil?

haha fair point - I always destroy the anvil...the idea of using souls to make golems is just too much for all of my chars.

[Addai]

Suron wrote...

no..no it's not inherintely evil at all

just as anything good can be used for evil purposes..so can something evil be used for good...

blood magic IS evil.  fact.

And for some people, a sword is always evil.

Using life force of one kind (blood) versus another kind (mana) is six dozen and half, if you leave out the Chantry teaching.  Just because it was once taught by demons, so we're told, doesn't mean that the blood mage has to be in direct contact with demons now that the lore is out in the world, so to speak.  Because of its mind control potential, it can be treated like you would a machine gun or explosives- more controlled and scrutinized- but not to use it against an enemy that has brought Thedas to the point of complete destruction and could again is folly.

[thegreateski]

Suron wrote...
yah because the fact it was taught by demons....primarily uses blood (duh) for the spells which includes sacrificing others for the more powerful ones...mind controls is the predominate trait/ability of it.

no..no it's not inherintely evil at all

just as anything good can be used for evil purposes..so can something evil be used for good...

blood magic IS evil.  fact.

Meh . . . I fail to see the difference between . . .

Forcing a man to kill his comrades and then himself

and

Killing a man and his comrades with a STORM OF ELEMENTAL FURY.

Modifié par thegreateski, 15 mai 2010 - 05:22 .

[Vicious]

lol chantry.

[Vicious]

Do the Wardens ever swear an oath?

Nope. At least the PC never swears it. Nobody does apparently. It's like the Green Lantern Oath, really. Vague as hell, just be brave and die making a sacrifice. Nothing in there about dying killing the Archdemon or whatever.

Modifié par Vicious, 15 mai 2010 - 06:02 .

[Ymladdych]

Removed.  Nothing to see here!

Modifié par Ymladdych, 16 mai 2010 - 08:07 .

[thegreateski]

Vicious wrote...

Do the Wardens ever swear an oath?

Nope. At least the PC never swears it. Nobody does apparently. It's like the Green Lantern Oath, really. Vague as hell, just be brave and die making a sacrifice. Nothing in there about dying killing the Archdemon or whatever.

I don't know . . . drinking that darkspawn blood cocktail during the joining seems pretty "oathy" to me.

[Ymladdych]

thegreateski wrote...

Vicious wrote...

Do the Wardens ever swear an oath?

Nope. At least the PC never swears it. Nobody does apparently. It's like the Green Lantern Oath, really. Vague as hell, just be brave and die making a sacrifice. Nothing in there about dying killing the Archdemon or whatever.

I don't know . . . drinking that darkspawn blood cocktail during the joining seems pretty "oathy" to me.

The Grey Warden verse they recite at the Joining also mentions the "duty that can not be foresworn." But then again, at the Landsmeet, Riordin makes it seem like it's less of an oath and more of an imperative that the Wardens literally feel because of the taint. I'm guessing that sensing the darkspawn and/or hearing the archdemon is probably unpleasant. (Forgive the Star Trek reference, but maybe not too dissimilar to being plugged into the Borg collective?)

[Aisynia]

Blood magic is horrible..



Horribly awesome!

[Sarah1281]

thegreateski wrote...

Vicious wrote...

Do the Wardens ever swear an oath?

Nope. At least the PC never swears it. Nobody does apparently. It's like the Green Lantern Oath, really. Vague as hell, just be brave and die making a sacrifice. Nothing in there about dying killing the Archdemon or whatever.

I don't know . . . drinking that darkspawn blood cocktail during the joining seems pretty "oathy" to me.

Really? To me it was just a ritual to literally transform you into a GW. What that meant or what your responsibilities were (aside from ending the Blight) were never really defined. Possibly they didn't have time to make you swear an official oath because of the battle but as it stands...killing the Archdemon is the only thing you're really required to do.

[blademaster7]

I could think of a dozen reasons why the DR is a foolish thing to do. Blood magic isn't one of them...

That's my opinion of course. I never cared about blood magic with any of my PC's.

Modifié par blademaster7, 15 mai 2010 - 07:06 .

[Master Shiori]

Blood magic is but a tool. On it's own it's no more evil than a sword would be evil or a bow.



Yes, it can and has been used to bring great suffereing to other, but then again any mage can use his talents to subjugate others or spread destruction and chaos.

Just because you have the option to do evil things doesn't mean you have to do it.



My mage choose blood magic as his specialization and never used to harm a single innocent, never used mind domination on anyone who didn't wish him harm.

Does that make him evil by default, just because he knows a ceirtain form of magic?



Just because most people may decide to abuse their powers for evil, selfish purposes doesn't mean everyone will.

[Swoo]

Addai67 wrote...

Suron wrote...

no..no it's not inherintely evil at all

just as anything good can be used for evil purposes..so can something evil be used for good...

blood magic IS evil.  fact.

And for some people, a sword is always evil.

Using life force of one kind (blood) versus another kind (mana) is six dozen and half, if you leave out the Chantry teaching.  Just because it was once taught by demons, so we're told, doesn't mean that the blood mage has to be in direct contact with demons now that the lore is out in the world, so to speak.  Because of its mind control potential, it can be treated like you would a machine gun or explosives- more controlled and scrutinized- but not to use it against an enemy that has brought Thedas to the point of complete destruction and could again is folly.

We seem to have two Blood Magic topics going on at the same time, so I'm going to drop this in here as well since it touches on some things being talked about. And as an aside, I agree totally with Addai; It's what you do that defines 'good or evil', not what it is in my mind.

One of the biggest hurdles you run into with Blood Magic at the moment
is the only source of information we have about it comes from the
school's opposition, with only Duncan and Avernus offering slight
counters to it.

Blood Magic is called Demon Magic, but that's not
entirely correct. It came from the most powerful of the Old God's -
Dumat- long before he was corrupted by the Darkspawn. I see the Old
God's as the Old Pagan God's of our own world, with the Chantry being
Christianity and it's push hundreds of years ago. From what we know so
far, Dumat either straight up taught it to the Teventir Magisters, or
taught them how to use it after they took it from the Elves of Arlathen.
Then the Old God's fell, the Elves were razed and imprisoned, and the
Magisters fell, the Demon part came about because they were the easiest
practitioner to get a hold of to learn it's secrets. That also became
the biggest danger of the school - and probably the biggest boon to the
Chantry put a blanket law of execution on it - because no matter what
magic you use, the more mage's you put in contact with Demons, the more
Abominations you are going to end up with. Blood Magic may not be the
school of Happy Fun Time Spells, but I (personally) doubt it is as
inherently damning and corrupting as the Chantry wants to claim.

As
I said, history is written by the victors, in this case the Chantry.

*The
Old Gods were the rivals to their Maker. The Pagan Pantheon to God. Any
supernatural force displayed by a pagan is going to be instantly
labeled heretical, be it truly so or not.

*The Elves were the
other main practitioners, and they fell into the same trap of 'Look what
the pride of man (elf) has wrought'. I'm sure they were less than quick
to heap praise and maintain the ideals of their newest slave folk, and I
find it personally interesting that the Elves lost their Immortality
the same time they lost their heraldic magics.

*The Teventir's
are the super-whipping-boy's of the Chantry. They razed paradise and
made the big guy in the sky split, if you believe the Chant. So,
anything associated with them is of course going to be the darkest thing
that ever walked under the sun.

My personal opinion is that it's
just a weapon. Whomever wields it makes it 'Good' or 'Evil'. It's going
to come down to personal choices; A Blood Mage does not have to take
power unwillingly from others, it's just easy to do so. Question is,
does he or she have that type of character to resist the easy path in
front of him or not?

[Swoo]

And damn this forum and it's insane formatting. I give up, I'm not even going to try to edit and fix these things anymore.