So. For a change of pace, I decided to actually play through as my canon mage, who is rather bent on justice - subsequently, I executed Jowan personally.
Imagine my surprise then when Arl Eamon suddenly wanted to see him, and zombie Jowan was brought forth, with guilt clear in his eyes and not nearly as dead as he was the last time I saw him.
I was most displeased.
Don't get me wrong; I don't hate the guy in the least. As I roleplayed it, my character nourished his jealousy and insecurity by keeping him in her shadow for the sake of bolstering her own ego, and as such, she was partly to blame for his turning to blood magic. It was actually heartwrenching to hear his speech and then pull through with the execution, so when he shows in such a non-executed state, I felt miffed. This is a bug, right?
For those of you who are toolset-savvy, is Jowan's spectre in the Gauntlet supposed say anything different when killed? I know Leske's does, and it makes me curious.
Jowan's fate
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, mai 14 2010 11:59
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#2
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 01:13
Swoo
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Very interesting, I would think this is a bug.
Hopefully someone else has a better answer.
Hopefully someone else has a better answer.
#3
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 01:47
sylvanaerie
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I've never noticed a difference when I killed him once over the things the spirit says in the Gauntlet but i wasn't paying that close of attention TBH. If the game doesn't even recognize that you killed him prior to waking Eamon then i doubt it makes much difference in the Gauntlet.
#4
Guest_Hanz54321_*
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 01:52
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ZOMBIE-JOWAN! Oh that is epic. I've never played a mage past lvl 9 so this is great stuff.
#5
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 01:59
sylvanaerie
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Even more epic is Zombie Connor. On the one playthrough I did and managed to kill the child (that was like pulling teeth without novacaine) I got this speech from Eamon saying 'Have you noticed anything strange about the boy?'
I wanted a response that said...umm WHAT ? aside from the hole in his chest his mother put there what would be strange about him?
I didn't get the killed Connor slide either that game.
Its full of bugs all over.
I wanted a response that said...umm WHAT ? aside from the hole in his chest his mother put there what would be strange about him?
I didn't get the killed Connor slide either that game.
Its full of bugs all over.
#6
Guest_Queen-Of-Stuff_*
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 02:00
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sylvanaerie wrote...
I've never noticed a difference when I killed him once over the things the spirit says in the Gauntlet but i wasn't paying that close of attention TBH. If the game doesn't even recognize that you killed him prior to waking Eamon then i doubt it makes much difference in the Gauntlet.
Maybe the game is supposed to recognize it. It is supposed to recognize many things, though as much as I love it, it's frustratingly buggy. I'm sure Alistair is supposed to realize that he's not going to be king when I put Anora on the throne, but he doesn't - and without the PC version, I can't mod the correct events, dialogues, what-have-thee where they're supposed to be.
The woes of a console owner will never end.
#7
Guest_Queen-Of-Stuff_*
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 02:19
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sylvanaerie wrote...
Even more epic is Zombie Connor. On the one playthrough I did and managed to kill the child (that was like pulling teeth without novacaine) I got this speech from Eamon saying 'Have you noticed anything strange about the boy?'
I wanted a response that said...umm WHAT ? aside from the hole in his chest his mother put there what would be strange about him?
I didn't get the killed Connor slide either that game.
Its full of bugs all over.
I should play as a bastard more often. Killing Connor gave me a sympathy for Isolde I had not previously been in possession of (what passionate voice acting!) though the entire ordeal is really the game screaming at you "DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT THERE IS ANOTHER OPTION TAKE IT TAKE IT TAKE IT" and you shoving it aside, saying "screw you, I don't really care", to which the game confronts you later in the shape of Alistair, pointing his finger at you and yelling "YOU CHILD-KILLING BASTARD YOU".
On a hilarious note; when the deed was done, Sten gave me + 4 approval, and he was in camp the whole time. Talk about a guy who REALLY likes his child-killings.
#8
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 02:21
Sarah1281
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When Isolde tries to talk you out of it and you get the opportunity to punch her out or let her do it, is it too late at that point to agree to choose a different option?
#9
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 02:22
Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
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Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
So. For a change of pace, I decided to actually play through as my canon mage, who is rather bent on justice - subsequently, I executed Jowan personally.
Imagine my surprise then when Arl Eamon suddenly wanted to see him, and zombie Jowan was brought forth, with guilt clear in his eyes and not nearly as dead as he was the last time I saw him.
I was most displeased.
Don't get me wrong; I don't hate the guy in the least. As I roleplayed it, my character nourished his jealousy and insecurity by keeping him in her shadow for the sake of bolstering her own ego, and as such, she was partly to blame for his turning to blood magic. It was actually heartwrenching to hear his speech and then pull through with the execution, so when he shows in such a non-executed state, I felt miffed. This is a bug, right?
For those of you who are toolset-savvy, is Jowan's spectre in the Gauntlet supposed say anything different when killed? I know Leske's does, and it makes me curious.
Same thing here, happened to me, I was pissed.
I've killed him and not, the spectre in the gauntlet is still the same. I do want someone to fix this bug, however. When I kill Jowan, he stays dead, damnit!
#10
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 02:24
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Wynne and Leliana (who were with me also gave me 1 approval each when I allowed Isolde to do the deed). I was too chickensh*t to do it myself. There are some lines I can't cross even in a game. Though I did manage to try to kill him myself it just wasn't as dramatic (and I lost approval with them) so I reloaded and tried the mom thing. It felt better actually. The poor boy wasn't responsible for all that stuff, Isolde, Loghain and Jowan were. He was just an innocent caught up in a bad situation So it should be his mom who sees him into the next life.Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
sylvanaerie wrote...
Even more epic is Zombie Connor. On the one playthrough I did and managed to kill the child (that was like pulling teeth without novacaine) I got this speech from Eamon saying 'Have you noticed anything strange about the boy?'
I wanted a response that said...umm WHAT ? aside from the hole in his chest his mother put there what would be strange about him?
I didn't get the killed Connor slide either that game.
Its full of bugs all over.
I should play as a bastard more often. Killing Connor gave me a sympathy for Isolde I had not previously been in possession of (what passionate voice acting!) though the entire ordeal is really the game screaming at you "DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT THERE IS ANOTHER OPTION TAKE IT TAKE IT TAKE IT" and you shoving it aside, saying "screw you, I don't really care", to which the game confronts you later in the shape of Alistair, pointing his finger at you and yelling "YOU CHILD-KILLING BASTARD YOU".
On a hilarious note; when the deed was done, Sten gave me + 4 approval, and he was in camp the whole time. Talk about a guy who REALLY likes his child-killings.
Modifié par sylvanaerie, 15 mai 2010 - 02:25 .
#11
Guest_Queen-Of-Stuff_*
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 02:25
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Sarah1281 wrote...
When Isolde tries to talk you out of it and you get the opportunity to punch her out or let her do it, is it too late at that point to agree to choose a different option?
I don't think so. You'll have an option to back down in every tree, as far as I recall, but if she takes it upon herself to kill Connor afterwards, I cannot say.
#12
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 02:28
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Sarah1281 wrote...
When Isolde tries to talk you out of it and you get the opportunity to punch her out or let her do it, is it too late at that point to agree to choose a different option?
If you back down at that point, no the game will segue into Isolde talkign to Connor and the demon comes out and mocks her. She finally sees there is no saving him and asks to do the deed herself.
#13
Guest_Queen-Of-Stuff_*
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 02:46
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sylvanaerie wrote...
Wynne and Leliana (who were with me also gave me 1 approval each when I allowed Isolde to do the deed). I was too chickensh*t to do it myself. There are some lines I can't cross even in a game. Though I did manage to try to kill him myself it just wasn't as dramatic (and I lost approval with them) so I reloaded and tried the mom thing. It felt better actually. The poor boy wasn't responsible for all that stuff, Isolde, Loghain and Jowan were. He was just an innocent caught up in a bad situation So it should be his mom who sees him into the next life.
Are you a mother yourself, I wonder? I'm too young to have kids and have no siblings, so I actually feel a lot, lot worse about options where I betray/do other bad things to my polygon friends. Not that any of the violence towards innocents in the game does not make me feel very petty.
#14
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 03:46
Hyper Cutter
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Yes. All trees lead to you killing Connor, Isolde doing it herself, or you sacrificing Isolde. There's no "I can't do this, let's go to the Circle instead" option in there. I found this out because I wanted to RP a character who did exactly this...Sarah1281 wrote...
When Isolde tries to talk you out of it and you get the opportunity to punch her out or let her do it, is it too late at that point to agree to choose a different option?
Also, I think the Jowan bug in the OP must be exclusive to mages, since I killed him as a city elf and he stayed dead.
#15
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 03:49
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Anyone can kill him in his cell but only mages can ask Teagan to execute him personally so I think that's what happened.Also, I think the Jowan bug in the OP must be exclusive to mages, since I killed him as a city elf and he stayed dead.
#16
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 07:39
Chuvvy
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Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
So. For a change of pace, I decided to actually play through as my canon mage, who is rather bent on justice - subsequently, I executed Jowan personally.
#17
Guest_Queen-Of-Stuff_*
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 08:35
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Slidell505 wrote...
Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
So. For a change of pace, I decided to actually play through as my canon mage, who is rather bent on justice - subsequently, I executed Jowan personally.
... What on earth is that? Damn.
I suppose it is an explanation you want? All the crap Jowan has pulled may not have been intentional on his side, but it still brought Redcliffe to the brink of annihilation, and PCmage does not think she can simply release him. She'd rather he lived as a Tranquil, but Jowan is a maleficar and escaped the Circle with a death sentence, so this is an impossibility. Eamon wouldn't show him any more mercy if revived, and if not, how could Teagan and Isolde after losing a husband and a brother? If Jowan's end is an execution either way, she thinks it's best that he is with one he once called friend instead of people who despise him.
#18
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 08:45
ScarletSage
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Damn I didnt know you could kill him personally I would have done that with my good mage :/ With my evil mage I handed him back over to the circle...couldnt be too mad at him since I was a blood mage too....
#19
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 09:06
sylvanaerie
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Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
sylvanaerie wrote...
Wynne and Leliana (who were with me also gave me 1 approval each when I allowed Isolde to do the deed). I was too chickensh*t to do it myself. There are some lines I can't cross even in a game. Though I did manage to try to kill him myself it just wasn't as dramatic (and I lost approval with them) so I reloaded and tried the mom thing. It felt better actually. The poor boy wasn't responsible for all that stuff, Isolde, Loghain and Jowan were. He was just an innocent caught up in a bad situation So it should be his mom who sees him into the next life.
Are you a mother yourself, I wonder? I'm too young to have kids and have no siblings, so I actually feel a lot, lot worse about options where I betray/do other bad things to my polygon friends. Not that any of the violence towards innocents in the game does not make me feel very petty.
Yes, I am a mom
#20
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 09:08
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My templar did it too but when i killed Jowan I got disapproves (Unlike the no disapproves from my mage) so I reloaded. I just wanted to see if he said anything different to a templar instead of a Mage. Pretty much the same without the mage tower origin references.Sarah1281 wrote...
Anyone can kill him in his cell but only mages can ask Teagan to execute him personally so I think that's what happened.Also, I think the Jowan bug in the OP must be exclusive to mages, since I killed him as a city elf and he stayed dead.
#21
Posté 15 mai 2010 - 01:19
Chuvvy
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Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
Slidell505 wrote...
Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...
So. For a change of pace, I decided to actually play through as my canon mage, who is rather bent on justice - subsequently, I executed Jowan personally.
... What on earth is that? Damn.
It's a mother****ing Sloth and you show it some respect.
