114 réponses à ce sujet

[Xandurpein]

TheMadCat wrote...

I guess you and I differ a lot in our definitions of what
constitutes a "real difference". The only "reality" you aknowledge is
the gameplay combat system. If a decision doesn't affect an encounter or
difficulty of a fight it's not "real". Never mind that I just changed
the destiny of a Kingdom by deciding who to put on the throne, as that
is only affects the epilogue and thus isn't real. I feel very
differently. I think my actions have a much bigger impact if it affects
the politics of the whole country than if it affects how many darkspawn
will be on the next bridge.

If a tree falls and no ones is around to hear it, does it make a sound? Indeed there is no set rule and it's all precieved by the individual. But to me, every choice we make in life, whether in reality or in a video game, has a consquence, some so minor you never notice and some world changing and if there is no consquence then the choice ultimately was an illusion. Using your example, if I make a choice to sit one individual on the throne over the other and no consquence is ever felt and there is no reaction seen beyond the very immediate scope, did it ever really happen, did it really matter? Epilogues are great, but they shouldn't be the tool used to reflect your choices because ultimately they are meaningless to the experience. I put so and so on the throne and they did this and that, wonderful. Ironically though your example is one of the instances I felt there was some actual consquences made from your decision so tough for me to argue on this example.

You have admirably proven my point. To you the lore in the game isn't part of your experience, only the gameplay. I happen to feel differently. Epilogues are in no way meaningless to my experience. It mattered a lot to me to find out in the epilogues how my actions had affected the people around me. It may be meaningless to your experience, but I do feel very diffrently.

TheMadCat wrote...

I'm curious, have you played The Witcher?

I have real problems taking a game where you apprarently collect pinup cards of women you have bedded serious. I have been since told the game is a bit deeper than that. so I might give it a chance, but that kind of sexism really doesn't appeal to me.

TheMadCat wrote...

Mass Effect 2, haven't played it personally but most sane people seems to put the romances a level or two above garbage.

I guess I'm just one of the very small minority who are mentally stable persons and still happens to like the romances in Mass Effect. I had to be really prickly to feel that you where conciously trying to belittle people who think differently from you? Or feel that you imply that anyone who liked the Mass Effect romances is just a frothing fanboy?

Modifié par Xandurpein, 21 mai 2010 - 08:21 .

[TheMadCat]

You have admirably proven my point. To you the lore in the game isn't
part of your experience, only the gameplay. I happen to feel
differently. Epilogues are in no way meaningless to my experience. It
mattered a lot to me to find out in the epilogues how my actions had
affected the people around me. It may be meaningless to your experience,
but I do feel very diffrently.

Certainly, as with everything else it's personal perspective. Like I said, epilogues are great but to me they should be used for tying up loose ends rather then explaining the eventual consequences of all your major choices. For me the consequence should actually be felt and experienced because that greatly enhances the impact you feel from that choice you made and really does give it a better sense of meaning and importance then a few lines of text in an epilogue would give. And believe it or not the lore is an important part of the experience for me, it's ultimately what sets it apart from other games where gameplay is the sole focus.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that your consequences aren't ever really seen or felt, they're vaguely explained through a bit of text. That to me is an illusion of choice, you're given several options and while the immedaiate response will be somewhat different for a brief moment, beyond that there is no real consquence for picking this over that as the end result will be identical to the other, again a couple of situations aside. The epilogue does seperate it, if that helps solidfy it's importance for you great. For me it just doesn't have the same feel of visially seeing and experiencing it and is at best a crutch to help support their promotions of "serious choices and consquences".

I suppose we've reached an impass though, neither of us seem to be budging.

I have real problems taking a game where you apprarently collect pinup
cards of women you have bedded serious. I have been since told the game
is a bit deeper than that. so I might give it a chance, but that kind of
sexism really doesn't appeal to me.

Yeah not sure what provoked them to put in those sex cards, seemed pointless and stupid to me. But it really is a very deep, very intricate, and well written game. Combat is meh but other then that it's a superb game, starts a little slow though.

I guess I'm just one of the very small minority who are mentally
stable persons and still happens to like the romances in Mass Effect. I
had to be really prickly to feel that you where conciously trying to
belittle people who think differently from you?

Like I said in my edit I could have worded it better then I did and there was no insult intended for you or anyone. But there are a ton of people who despise the romances in ME2 for all the wrong reasons because they're a little obsessive of some of the love interests and I was hoping to seperate it from that group, hopefully you understand that. 

[Xandurpein]

TheMadCat wrote...
I suppose we've reached an impass though, neither of us seem to be budging.

Fair enough, and I can see your point of view too. Let me just elaborate a bit and explain that I think that I do get in-game feedback on my choices. If I pursue Leliana's romance I get lots of in-game feedback in the form of her delight in our romance, and yes, I would probably feel cheated if the romance halted just short of "I love you" and that only came in an epilogue. But my experience from that romance isn't less intense, just because that is a side quest and not tied to the main plot.

Yeah not sure what provoked them to put in those sex cards, seemed pointless and stupid to me. But it really is a very deep, very intricate, and well written game. Combat is meh but other then that it's a superb game, starts a little slow though.

I might give it a try then. I play roleplaying games for the stories, not the number crunching and combat system anyway.

Like I said in my edit I could have worded it better then I did and there was no insult intended for you or anyone. But there are a ton of people who despise the romances in ME2 for all the wrong reasons because they're a little obsessive of some of the love interests and I was hoping to seperate it from that group, hopefully you understand that.

Apology accepted and no hard feelings then. I think I know what people you refer too, but in my experience many Mass Effect players did actually enjoy those romances without being crazed fanboys, even if they are admittedly aren't as deep as those in Dragon Age.

[Poleaxe]

Syracuse wrote...

Relhart, how are those "irrational emotional attachments" any different from the little girl pretending to be a rescued Cinderella, or the little boy who throws a belt across his shoulders and pretends to be Indiana Jones? We develop those attachments for characters we admire or identify with, and it's one major reason so many of us enjoy what Bioware makes...they can capture that magic for us grown-ups. That's a pretty bang-up job in my book, considering most of us are more jaded and discerning than the average seven year-old. I personally give a hats-off to the level of detail put into the romantic story-line, and Mr. Gaider's unwillingness to compromise with any half-efforts.

I think it's telling that both posters who have made this argument refer to what is natural for immature humans. I don't mean that to be insulting, I'm just pointing out that what we do as a child is not necessarily acceptable or appropriate as an adult. However, I also have to concede that not everyone who posts here is an adult.

[Xandurpein]

Poleaxe wrote...

Syracuse wrote...

Relhart, how are those "irrational emotional attachments" any different from the little girl pretending to be a rescued Cinderella, or the little boy who throws a belt across his shoulders and pretends to be Indiana Jones? We develop those attachments for characters we admire or identify with, and it's one major reason so many of us enjoy what Bioware makes...they can capture that magic for us grown-ups. That's a pretty bang-up job in my book, considering most of us are more jaded and discerning than the average seven year-old. I personally give a hats-off to the level of detail put into the romantic story-line, and Mr. Gaider's unwillingness to compromise with any half-efforts.

I think it's telling that both posters who have made this argument refer to what is natural for immature humans. I don't mean that to be insulting, I'm just pointing out that what we do as a child is not necessarily acceptable or appropriate as an adult. However, I also have to concede that not everyone who posts here is an adult.

As a 47 year old father of two children, who also find game romances very entertaining, I can assure you that enjoying romantic storylines and being involved by the magic of the storytelling and the characters has nothing to do with age. Although it is true that young adults who only recently left childhood tends to worry about being seen as childish. Something you can happily forget at my age.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 21 mai 2010 - 01:36 .

[Sandtigress]

David Gaider wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...
Mr. Gaider, I'm personally glad the the storyline is the main focus of the Dragon Age Franchise. Although I love the Alistair character to death, if his demise meanings furthering the story I can live with that. The story is so well written to date I wouldn't want anything to detract from the level of excellence you have already established.

I'll always include romances when I get the chance. I actually like writing them. But if it's between doing romances properly and giving them short shrift, I'd rather not do them at all.

And we like that you like writing them!  I think the 1000+ Alistair gush thread is testament to that...

[Nu-Nu]

I don't see why it's immature to imagine.  Some adults find substance in imagining winning the lottery or going somehwere exotic and entertaining or kicking the ass of their boss while taking their job, money and hot wife/husband.  And some find more substance imagining a good adventure/romance story in their head.

It is not childish to imagine or daydream, some imagination helps us strive to get a better life.  There wouldn't be good movies/book/tv if adults didn't/shouldn't have imagination or a good daydream quality because it's not kids who makes them.

It's only when daydreams effects reality and stops you from living, that is the only time you should worry about adults having imagination.

Modifié par Nu-Nu, 21 mai 2010 - 03:50 .

[Addai]

I can only shake my head when the magic of storytelling, or its ability to move people, is characterized as "immature."  If it is, then let us all be a little immature.  I don't doubt that some may take it too far, but that is why some of us smoke and others don't, some are overweight and others aren't, some are workaholics.  People respond differently.

The story hook doesn't have to be a romance to be compelling.  I was pulled into Fallout 3 because I walked by while my husband was starting a new game and heard the baby cooing.  Normally I'm not interested in video games, but I kept playing because I wanted to see the story line of James and his child resolved.  I came to enjoy the combat and atmosphere as part of it, but that was the gut pull.

DAO likewise has a lot of gut pull, mainly from the romances, since your character is ripped out of other relationships by the major plot line.  If some are "disturbed" because that hooks people in, then maybe the problem lies in the critic and not in the fans.

Modifié par Addai67, 21 mai 2010 - 03:48 .

[errant_knight]

TheMadCat wrote...

While I agree that they are not the main focus they still are VERY
important, because the RP is what really makes DAO great.



Let´s
face it: If you are only interested in the combat, there are better
games than DAO or ME. The story and the roleplaying are what make them
great and not only good average.

While the romances are decent and I find them enjoyable I'm not sure I'd agree that they are an important part to the RP experience. Unfortunately they are at times shallow and aside from simply having a few lines they're not very involved. They can still have the great story telling, compelling characters, superb dialogue, and still deliver that quality RP experience.

As of late the romances really haven't been much more then clicking the right lines of dialogue, get in their pants, and call it a day. There just isn't really enough to them to really consider it in as an integral part of the BioWare experience, in my opinion anyways. I'd love to see them expand on the whole romance thing, give it a bit more depth and relevance to the game. And no, when I say depth and relevance I don't mean dating sim like some of you will interpret that line as.

David Gaider wrote...

*I* can't look at that stuff (not yet, anyway) but I appreciate the fact
that it exists.

Interesting, you make it sound like a restriction of sorts, may I ask why? Seems like an odd thing to be restricted against unless it's self imposed for whatever reason.

It's not uncommon for writers to avoid fan works or unsolicited script submissions, as I understand it. It prevents spurious claims of 'you stole my idea' and lawsuits by crazy people.

[Tirigon]

TheMadCat wrote...

Origins had two good ones and two which seemed like they were installed solely to wrangle in the homosexual demographic or stir up a bit of that "bad" publicity like they had with the Mass Effect sex scene because they really had very little depth to them in comparison to the other two.

And this is why I think we need MANY romance options, not just two: You made clear in another post that the bad ones are Zevran and Leliana. I however  prefer them over Alistair and Morrigan - as characters and romance options.

The more romance options a game has the better will they fit to different preferences / tastes.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I do not see how Zevran and Leliana are not as good as romance options as Alistair and Morrigan. Sure, their romance plot is not extraordinary, as in nothing really special or breaking happens, unlike Morrigan's DR and Alistair being a Therein. But that does not mean that Leliana and Zev are lesser romances. People might actually be attracted to personalities when they romance and not at the propect of "something cool is going to happen". Some people might think Zevran is a more interesting character than Alistair and so go for him, others might htink Leliana is more interesting than Morrigan (as blind as they are lol) so go for her.

Zevran and Leliana are as well written and voice acted as Morrigan and Alistair. Their romance plots doesn't offer anything special but it doesn't have to, for it to be special.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 mai 2010 - 04:22 .

[Tirigon]

TheMadCat wrote...

Using your example, if I make a choice to sit one individual on the throne over the other and no consquence is ever felt and there is no reaction seen beyond the very immediate scope, did it ever really happen, did it really matter? Epilogues are great, but they shouldn't be the tool used to reflect your choices because ultimately they are meaningless to the experience as they aren't actually felt and experienced by you. I put so and so on the throne and they did this and that, wonderful. Ironically though your example is one of the instances I felt there was some actual consquences made from your decision so tough for me to argue on this example.

I'm curious, have you played The Witcher?

While I, too, wish there were more consequences of your choices in DAO I wouldn´t say that it was done badly. Also, especially with regard to the kingmaker example, remember that you don´t ever get back in this country after having recruited your troops. It´s sort of hard to make your choice felt if you are elsewhere for the rest of the game.

[Tirigon]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
 Some people might think Zevran is a more interesting character than Alistair and so go for him, others might htink Leliana is more interesting than Morrigan (as blind as they are lol) so go for her.

And some (me^^) just download a few mods and have them all!<3:devil:

Zevran and Leliana are as well written and voice acted as Morrigan and Alistair. Their romance plots doesn't offer anything special but it doesn't have to, for it to be special.

Mostly, this. Except that I think with Leliana and Zevran something important happens - not important for the entire universe maybe (like the DR) but definitely important for the characters.

[Merilsell]

Tirigon wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Origins had two good ones and two which seemed like they were installed solely to wrangle in the homosexual demographic or stir up a bit of that "bad" publicity like they had with the Mass Effect sex scene because they really had very little depth to them in comparison to the other two.

And this is why I think we need MANY romance options, not just two: You made clear in another post that the bad ones are Zevran and Leliana. I however  prefer them over Alistair and Morrigan - as characters and romance options.

The more romance options a game has the better will they fit to different preferences / tastes.

I have to disagree on that. I loved ME 2 but felt that the romance options had decreased in quality comparing to the first ME. Maybe that is just me, but none of the many, many options given there tucked my heartstrings half as much as the fewer romances in DA:O have done it. Or ME 1 for that matter. I rather would see a handful or fewer romances really well done and emotional compelling (like it has been done with DA:O), than to please every single taste. Which is by the way impossible to achieve. More options would IMO make the game look more like a dating sim (partly I felt like this in ME2) As much I enjoy romance subplots in games, it's still has to be a subplot -- adding to the story after all...and not replacing it.

Focusing on a few romances means they can add more depth to it, instead to have rush things with many options. This depthness and emotional involvement was what made the Alistair-romance (for me) so enjoyable, and is also the reason I still get drawn in my it... even after all these months. (The Morrigan and Zevran romances are fantastic written as well, I just prefer this one to them.)

Quality instead of quantity is important, I think.

Because if more options means, I have to endure another romance like the Jacob one, I would rather have none at all, thank you very much.

The priiiize

[TheMadCat]

It's not uncommon for writers to avoid fan works or unsolicited script
submissions, as I understand it. It prevents spurious claims of 'you
stole my idea' and lawsuits by crazy people.

I'm no copyright expert but I'm fairly certain you can't sue to proprietor of the IP because they used pieces of your work which is based on their IP.

And this is why I think we need MANY romance options, not just two:
You made clear in another post that the bad ones are Zevran and Leliana.
I however  prefer them over Alistair and Morrigan - as characters and
romance options.

The more romance options a game has the better
will they fit to different preferences / tastes.

I've seen people say this before but never really explain why. Why is it better then Morrigan's or Alistair's? Is it because it's actually written and employed better or is it simply because you like the characters better? I've given the romances of Zev and Leliana kudos when deserved, the limited dialogues were well written and the VA's did a great job. But that doesn't take away from the fact they are very shallow with a ton of missed opportunities. They don't need to have these huge epic schemes to be considered good, but they do need to be more involved.

Ultimately Leliana and Zev have no depth to their romances, it's say a few lines, select the right dialogue, bing, bang, boom, goodday and goodnight. In the last quarter of the game, the entire last quarter of the game after your characters have spent over year on the road, constantly fighting, suffering, making hard decisions, using each other's shoulders to lean on, after finally reaching what you've been working so hard to achieve, you get one little tiny line of dialogue. That's it; two monumental decisions and the pinnacle of the story, and there is one little line. No confiding with your interest about these two monsterous decisions, even though the other two have plenty to say both ways, no final chat alone to share the anticipation or the fear, nothing.

To me that gives it a hollow feeling, all these areas throughout the game where important events are happening and decisions being made and the eventual pinncale of the story, and nothing. This is why I considered them to be nothing but throwins for whatever reason, to me it seems like there was either very poor planning or cut content because they didn't feel it was important enough for the final release. You may absoutly love the characters themselves and that's fine, I thought they were very well done overall. But can you really tell me from a writing perspective they were as deep as involved as Alistair and Morrigan? Do you really think they were given the planning and importance they should have been given?

And of course there is no denying the economic realities, the more there are the less you can pack into each one. That's a given fact.

While I, too, wish there were more consequences of your choices in DAO I
wouldn´t say that it was done badly. Also, especially with regard to
the kingmaker example, remember that you don´t ever get back in this
country after having recruited your troops. It´s sort of hard to make
your choice felt if you are elsewhere for the rest of the game.

I never said it was done badly, I simply said the choices you make are ultimately an illusion since you never actually experience the effects, rather you simply read about them in an epilogue. The choices themselves are well written and incredibly thought provoking but no matter what you choose the events always unfold the same way throughout the story. There are exceptions to this sure, but for the vast majority it just doesn't matter. Again I can't get into details due to this non-spoiler nonsense but I'd figure we'd experience some ramifications from some of the serious choices we were given, but unfortunaly you never really do. This doesn't mean it's poorly done, I just find it odd that so many people hold Origins choices and consquences on such a high pedestal.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 21 mai 2010 - 05:17 .

[Brockololly]

TheMadCat wrote..

I never said it was done badly, I simply said the choices you make are ultimately an illusion since you never actually experience the effects, rather you simply read about them in an epilogue. The choices themselves are well written and incredibly thought provoking but no matter what you choose the events always unfold the same way throughout the story. There are exceptions to this sure, but for the vast majority it just doesn't matter. Again I can't get into details due to this non-spoiler nonsense but I'd figure we'd experience some ramifications from some of the serious choices we were given, but unfortunaly you never really do. This doesn't mean it's poorly done, I just find it odd that so many people hold Origins choices and consquences on such a high pedestal.

I thought Origins did a better job with choices and consequences than Awakening did. Certain choices like Morrigan's Dark Ritual and the whole Old God Baby thing are kind of left in the air though at the end of Origins. You see some of the consequences like how certain individuals can live or die, but not in anything beyond the immediate impact of those choices. It would be nice to see some more of the delayed consequences like The Witcher did.

My big issue is with Awakening though. Sure you can make tons of choices, but all of the consequences to those actions are relegated to the epilogue slides and not the actual game itself. The epilogue slides should be there to tie off minor loose ends or give some closure, not as a primary mechanism by which to illustrate consequences to player actions, IMO.

Modifié par Brockololly, 21 mai 2010 - 05:48 .

[Kail Ashton]

Well that's a whole lotta debate'n bout in game romances, clearly it does indeed mean alot to people (nay sayers are just in the closet game romance fans lol) So try not to f@ck it up any worse than you did in awakeningf & ME2 bioware



Obviously your track record says you will, but i'm hopelessly optimistic

[Tirigon]

Merilsell wrote...

I have to disagree on that. I loved ME 2 but felt that the romance options had decreased in quality comparing to the first ME. Maybe that is just me, but none of the many, many options given there tucked my heartstrings half as much as the fewer romances in DA:O have done it. Or ME 1 for that matter.

It is the same for me, actually.

Because - by a lucky chance - ME had the very best LI ever incarnated in Liara (I never romanced anyone else), and in Dragon Age I just happened to like Zevran quite much.

In ME2 I didn´t really like anyone of the companions except Grunt and the one in my sig.

However, less choices wouldn´t have changed that, nor would more choices in ME or DAO have hurt the game.

You just can´t argue that more different LIs means a bigger chance to find one you like - If you didn´t find anyone in ME2, that means they would have needed to add at least one more that fits your taste.

[Costin_Razvan]

Truthfully in ME 2 I only found Tali interesting as romance, and even that's mostly because of your past history with her.



On my female Shepard....I was disappointed. Garrus was ok, but nowhere near comparable to Tali.



But people need to understand that the Romance you had in the first DA will no longer be there in DA2, as much as you would want it to be.

[Nerdage]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Truthfully in ME 2 I only found Tali interesting as romance, and even that's mostly because of your past history with her.

On my female Shepard....I was disappointed. Garrus was ok, but nowhere near comparable to Tali.

But people need to understand that the Romance you had in the first DA will no longer be there in DA2, as much as you would want it to be.

Well we don't know that either way yet, but your probably right.

[Leon Evelake]

TheMadCat wrote...


I never said it was done badly, I simply said the choices you make are ultimately an illusion since you never actually experience the effects, rather you simply read about them in an epilogue. The choices themselves are well written and incredibly thought provoking but no matter what you choose the events always unfold the same way throughout the story. There are exceptions to this sure, but for the vast majority it just doesn't matter. Again I can't get into details due to this non-spoiler nonsense but I'd figure we'd experience some ramifications from some of the serious choices we were given, but unfortunaly you never really do. This doesn't mean it's poorly done, I just find it odd that so many people hold Origins choices and consquences on such a high pedestal.

That's because they have played other games where the choices were truly an illusion like Fable 2.  Dragon Age has a decent amount direct consequences and epilog consequences.  True most of the big results are in the epilogue but most of those would take years to unfold some even decades.  In the end you can determine your characters and several others fates and have direct consequences.  The romance choices, choices about who you kill or spare and many quest choices play out rather quickly.( its a little difficult to give examples without spoilers)

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Leon Evelake wrote...

That's because they have played other games where the choices were truly an illusion like Fable 2.  

Why the Fable 2 hate? The choices are no more an "illusion" then Dragon Age or Mass Effect. I mean I do eagerly wait for ME3 to see how they all play out in that universe but the fact is to make choices have true consequence you would need to make almost 2 complete games and that just isn't profitable (sadly).

Instead what we get is an Alistair model and dialogue instead of an Anora model and dialogue. The world doesn't reflect the choices that those characters would make based on their personality, it just streamlines them into a world that is, in the grand spectrum of things, indecipherable from another.


Note: This isn't a hate post, or a dislike post, it's just a sad fact of that oh so wonderful devilry that is business. 

[soteria]

It is the same for me, actually.



Because - by a lucky chance - ME had the very best LI ever incarnated in Liara (I never romanced anyone else), and in Dragon Age I just happened to like Zevran quite much.



In ME2 I didn´t really like anyone of the companions except Grunt and the one in my sig.



However, less choices wouldn´t have changed that, nor would more choices in ME or DAO have hurt the game.

How do you know more choices in DA wouldn't have hurt the game? If they took the time to write romances for Sten and Oghren and Wynne, that's writing time taken away from something else. Conversely, how do you know fewer romances wouldn't have helped ME2? It's quite possible that less time spent writing romances could have equated to more time writing the companions. Maybe you would have liked them better.

You just can´t argue that more different LIs means a bigger chance to find one you like - If you didn´t find anyone in ME2, that means they would have needed to add at least one more that fits your taste.

I can, and will. More romances doesn't necessarily mean more good, well-written, or enjoyable romances. I liked Sten and Oghren, but that doesn't mean I would like a romance for them if it were written. Saying, "I didn't like any of them, so there must not have been enough," is a strange stance. Sure, it's true that one more romance might theoretically be the one a person likes, but it's not remotely a given. It seems like a better use of resources would be to look at what was wrong or right about them and write better or different romances, not more of the same.

[DaneWolf]

Romance in a game makes the game more alive... I'm not in for a dating sim unless it would be DLC... That would be acceptable... But not taking away the combats and other cool storyline... A dating Sim DLC okay... A dating sim GAME.... NOway!!

[Leon Evelake]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Leon Evelake wrote...

That's because they have played other games where the choices were truly an illusion like Fable 2.  

Why the Fable 2 hate? The choices are no more an "illusion" then Dragon Age or Mass Effect. I mean I do eagerly wait for ME3 to see how they all play out in that universe but the fact is to make choices have true consequence you would need to make almost 2 complete games and that just isn't profitable (sadly).

Instead what we get is an Alistair model and dialogue instead of an Anora model and dialogue. The world doesn't reflect the choices that those characters would make based on their personality, it just streamlines them into a world that is, in the grand spectrum of things, indecipherable from another.


Note: This isn't a hate post, or a dislike post, it's just a sad fact of that oh so wonderful devilry that is business. 

Because fable 2 choices were a joke, fable 1 did better.  You have virtually no choices to make except will you give me money to fix this town will or will you or wont you let this chick get scared and the the choice at the joke of an ending.    There's no consequence in that game at no sense that anything you do matters or changes  furthermore none of it ever affects the story in any way, if you compare it to fable 1, jade empire or dragon age or even infamous its so called choices fall short.